How does Army do this?

[ibeattetris]

Aw man you’re right! Monken was a-backs and special teams. Still, best years under PJ were with Monken and Bohannon.

I believe CPJ leaned on both a lot and is why we slipped a bit when we didn't have both. 2014 was still our best year with neither of them on staff.

 

[AlabamaBuzz]

Their defense is bad in FEI, which is *per possession* not total.
Oklahoma gave up a touchdown on 36% of drives against them. That ranks 110.
In points per play, Oklahoma gave up 0.427. That ranks 83.

Their defense isn't bad because they have a lot of drives, they are bad because they over a third of the drives against them end up in the endzone.

I agree with your analysis, but it is true when you are on the field all of the time, if you tire, then those 2nd half possessions become AUTOMATIC sometimes, and the little bit of fight they had in the 1st half may begin to dwindle, but you are right about them not being good - they are historically bad for an OKLA team, although they were pretty bad last year as well.

 

[Animal02]

Army held the ball for 44 minutes. Let that sink in.

I don't think I ever sweated an OU game that hard.

Check out some Army possessions: 16 play drive, TD. 16 play drive, TD. 19 play drive, TD. 17 play drive, INT.

They played keep away and Death Marched OU almost to a loss.

The OU fans gave Army a standing ovation at the end of the game. Classy.

I love death March football

 

[AlabamaBuzz]

I love death March football

I agree, unless your team is who it is happening to.

 

[vamosjackets]

Aw man you’re right! Monken was a-backs and special teams. Still, best years under PJ were with Monken and Bohannon.

Had our best year (2014) with Cook (QB/BB) and Owens (AB) and the rest of the current offensive staff, though. But, I agree with your primary point completely!!

 

[Deleted member 2897]

People are really soured against the option because we haven't thrown in 2 years. But people forget the other 8 of CPJs 10 years (prior to TaQuon Marshall) we threw a minimum of 1500 yards passing and a high of just under 2,000 yards. We had several years of 1800+ yards passing.

We lost Matthew Jordan, Lucas Johnson, Jay Jones...we simply ran with what we had available. Lucas Johnson, James Graham, and our new incoming QBs can all throw. There is no reason that with or without CPJ we would throw the more normal 150+ yards a game that we're used to over the previous decade prior to 2017 if we still played the flex bone system.

Personally I would prefer someone other than Monken, but I will be behind him 100% if he ends up being the guy and I know we'll be fine and throw a lot more with him. There was just no reason to throw a lot the last 2 years when we weren't able to do that. You go to war with the Army that you have (pardon the pun).

 

[ibeattetris]

I agree with your analysis, but it is true when you are on the field all of the time, if you tire, then those 2nd half possessions become AUTOMATIC sometimes, and the little bit of fight they had in the 1st half may begin to dwindle, but you are right about them not being good - they are historically bad for an OKLA team, although they were pretty bad last year as well.

Not trying to make a big deal about this, but I believe the defense "getting tired" argument is overplayed (it's one of the things I strongly disagree with CPJ about).

Syracuse has the highest number of drives per game this year, yet their FEI is 36. It is only one data point, which makes it anecdotal, but it does add evidence that having more drives does't not necessarily mean you give up more points per drive.

Drive data from: https://public.tableau.com/shared/PPKNK9XG7?:display_count=no

Syracuse
14.8 drives per game - rank 1
23% of drives touch down - rank 39
0.385 Points per play - rank 67
36 overall FEI def

Oklahoma
11.455 drives per game - rank 104 (Oklahoma actually does not have a lot of possessions)
36% of drives touch down - rank 110
0.431 Points per play - rank 83
94 overall FEI def

GT
10.9 drives per game - rank 121
36.9% of drives touch down - rank 114
0.487 Points per play - rank 111
106 overall FEI def

 

[InsideLB]

The other thing with the service academies is the academy prep schools, where recruits go for 1 year and run the offense. Doesn't count against their 4 years and they show up as frosh with a year in the system. Pretty big advantage as many positions take time to learn.

 

[lv20gt]

The same way Purdue beat OSU by near 30. Upsets are a thing and the 1/10 happened that day.

 

[SteamWhistle]

I would be open to Monken taking over. The question is, would TS? Anyone know if he is getting an interview?

From my understating Monken and Bohannon are definitely candidates but would be towards the bottom of GT’s list, and it also has nothing to do with the type of offense.

 

[AlabamaBuzz]

Not trying to make a big deal about this, but I believe the defense "getting tired" argument is overplayed (it's one of the things I strongly disagree with CPJ about).

Syracuse has the highest number of drives per game this year, yet their FEI is 36. It is only one data point, which makes it anecdotal, but it does add evidence that having more drives does't not necessarily mean you give up more points per drive.

Drive data from: https://public.tableau.com/shared/PPKNK9XG7?:display_count=no

Syracuse
14.8 drives per game - rank 1
23% of drives touch down - rank 39
0.385 Points per play - rank 67
36 overall FEI def

Oklahoma
11.455 drives per game - rank 104 (Oklahoma actually does not have a lot of possessions)
36% of drives touch down - rank 110
0.431 Points per play - rank 83
94 overall FEI def

GT
10.9 drives per game - rank 121
36.9% of drives touch down - rank 114
0.487 Points per play - rank 111
106 overall FEI def

Good information, Ibea. Thank you. One thing this doesn't pick up though is the substitution levels. Some factories have, for example a larger depth and frequency of substitution on the D line, LB's, secondary, etc., so that also plays into the equation, but overall, the data speaks for itself.

 

[vamosjackets]

From my understating Monken and Bohannon are definitely candidates but would be towards the bottom of GT’s list, and it also has nothing to do with the type of offense.

Can you disclose how you came to that understanding? That's a sincere question, not trying to troll (or however you say it).

 

[ibeattetris]

Good information, Ibea. Thank you. One thing this doesn't pick up though is the substitution levels. Some factories have, for example a larger depth and frequency of substitution on the D line, LB's, secondary, etc., so that also plays into the equation, but overall, the data speaks for itself.

Quality depth plays into this as well of course. There are going to be a bunch of factors. Last year when we had only 4 serviceable DL I wouldn’t have made sense to play HUNH.

I just was pointing out that the overall number of drives is not the deciding factor.

 

[SteamWhistle]

Can you disclose how you came to that understanding? That's a sincere question, not trying to troll (or however you say it).

Just based on the news I’ve seen, I really know just about the same as everyone else, but from how I interpret it :
Monken just signed a new Multi Year Deal with Army last season.
Georgia Tech rumored to want NFL experience.
With those two things in mind I personally would assume Monken is not too high on GT’s target list.
As for Bohannon, I’d assume Monken, or Ken from Navy would both be considered before him.
Although, this is just my interpretation of the same news everyone else has gotten.

 

[stylee]

People are really soured against the option because we haven't thrown in 2 years. But people forget the other 8 of CPJs 10 years (prior to TaQuon Marshall) we threw a minimum of 1500 yards passing and a high of just under 2,000 yards. We had several years of 1800+ yards passing.

We lost Matthew Jordan, Lucas Johnson, Jay Jones...we simply ran with what we had available. Lucas Johnson, James Graham, and our new incoming QBs can all throw. There is no reason that with or without CPJ we would throw the more normal 150+ yards a game that we're used to over the previous decade prior to 2017 if we still played the flex bone system.

Personally I would prefer someone other than Monken, but I will be behind him 100% if he ends up being the guy and I know we'll be fine and throw a lot more with him. There was just no reason to throw a lot the last 2 years when we weren't able to do that. You go to war with the Army that you have (pardon the pun).

Lots of truth here.

2008: 12.7 pass attempts/game (Nesbitt + DT, first year in system)
2009: 12 attempts/game (Nesbitt + DT, weren't behind as much and so didn't need to throw)
2010: 12.9 attempts/game (Nesbitt and Tevin, were behind more)
2011: 12.8 attempts/game (Tevin + Hill)
2012: 13.9 attempts/game (Tevin/Vad + no one)
2013: 15.6 attempts/game (Vad + Smelter and Waller)
2014: 14.5 attempts/game (JT + Smelter and Waller)
2015: 16.0 attempts/game (JT + Jeune; behind a whole lot)
2016: 12.2 attempts/game (JT + Jeune and Lynch)
2017: 10.7 attempts/game (TM + Jeune)
2018: 9.5 attempts/game (TM + Stewart and Lynch)


The last two years have seen a marked reduction in pass attempts, for obvious reasons. TM and TO were the worst passing QBs we've had in the last 11 years who saw significant playing time. CPJ adapts to personnel.

With a good passing QB in a great year (JT in 2014), he threw 14.5 passes a game. He had two NFL wideouts at that point. Without those guys and in a very bad year, it was 16 attempts. With a more polished Jeune and a gamebreaker in Lynch, we go to 12.2 in a pretty good year.


Just a guess, but if it were Lucas next year throwing to Camp and Carter, I think we were going to bounce back up to the 12-14 range. That incoming frosh? Maybe up to 15-17.

 

[AlabamaBuzz]

I believe if a coach like Monken (or other) would run our base O with some wrinkles that he could recruit saying we will average 15-25 passes a game, that would be a start to trying to reduce the recruiting concerns for WR's and QB's, for example. And, since stylee shows that 15 passes a game was our average from 2013-2015, this does not seem unreasonable to commit to.

 

[Techster]

IMO, Monken is at least CPJ's equal if not surpassed him at this point. LOVE what he's doing at Army, and really liked how he changed things up at GA Southern. He's also had half decent defenses at Army (ARMY!!) so in that regard he would be an improvement over CPJ.

Although I think GT needs to move on from a pure option system, I think Monken could do well at GT. I'd take Monken over any other CPJ disciples...if those were our only choices.

 

[Skeptic]

Good coaching and the PJ system, that is what I believe. With that said, OK has an offense that might be just a notch below those teams (or maybe equal to those teams), but their defense is very, very poor. Monken has done an unbelievable job turning Army around - they went from being consistently the worst Academy FB program to the best very, very quickly.

All that and more for certain. It also helped that if you are a Sooner Boomer the United States Military Academy, long the doormat of service academies, holds no terror for you. Taking them for granted is as old as warfare. As well, they can name all the coaches of the year they want, but nobody in college football, nobody, has done a better coaching job than Jeff Monken. He is on his way to a second straight 10-win season, maybe his third straight win over Navy -- and except for the spread option bane, a fumbled handoff, would be four -- and of course, by not passing the ball. That last part I made up. He doesn't, but Army had a dazzling two minute drill last year to win a game with one second left ... on a pass. I always thought that Georgia Tech suffered when Monken went to GSU. Johnson never replaced his coaching skills.

 

[Skeptic]

IMO, Monken is at least CPJ's equal if not surpassed him at this point. LOVE what he's doing at Army, and really liked how he changed things up at GA Southern. He's also had half decent defenses at Army (ARMY!!) so in that regard he would be an improvement over CPJ.

Although I think GT needs to move on from a pure option system, I think Monken could do well at GT. I'd take Monken over any other CPJ disciples...if those were our only choices.

Wouldn't you be very surprised if, after the decline in the program and the increasing loud protests about the offense, the offense was retained? I think it likely it will be the RPO so popular now. Now, new guy, are you better at finding a QB?

 

[GTRX7]

For all those that grew to hate the option, I suspect I am weirdly going to go out of my way to keep an eye on KSU, Army, and Navy games in the years to come. I am not married to the offense and am fine if we go away from it, but I will definitely miss watching it as well. Honestly helped me become a much better student of the game than I was before CPJ got here when I used to just sort of "watch the ball."