How do we fix this nightmare....

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Techster

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Great post LongDodd, I agree.

I hear Godsey could be headed to the Texans with O'Brien.

I saw that as well. Godsey made a great career decision joining O'Brien in New England from UCF. I hear Godsey will join OBrien's staff as an OC. I think O'Brien will be the play caller, but coordinating an offense on the NFL level is still a great get for Goose.

If Godsey joins O'Brien in Houston as an OC, there's no way he returns to GT as an OC. That would be a step down for a career move. But it does pave the way for him to come back as a HC one day.
 

collegeballfan

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Animal02 says above:
"That is the message that should be drilled into Tech players. The thought that a player would think that the entire system should be turned on its ear to play the way he wants to play is absurd. The mistake made by CPJ was not benching Vad at the first sign that his head and heart were not in playing within the system.

As for the program being a "nightmare" that is total BS. A nightmare program is one that goes 7-5, 4-6-1, 1-9-1, 1-10, 6-5. 3-8"

OK I buy this 100%.

Since 1970 Georgia Tech has won 53% of its football games. And there were periods of "nightmare" seasons in those years following 1970. For example: 7-5, 4-6-1, 1-9-1, 1-10, 6-5, 3-8, 6-4-1 as examples.
 

Boomergump

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I have to admit, I kind of object to the wording used in the original post. To me it sounds a bit like a drive by shooting, laced with some subtle anger, intended to do nothing more than stoke the fire rather than solve a problem. I guess, like many others, I am wondering what the definition of disaster is? In any case, without a precise understanding of what JD is after, I will offer these thoughts:

For those who say we need to move away from the base of the offense, being TO, and towards something else utilizing fewer cut blocks and more formations etc, I caution you. We have already done that THIS YEAR and you have seen the results - they have been mixed and cause for some concern. We barely ran any TO this season. I just got done watching the bowl on my DVR. There wasn't a whole lot of option run and the stuff that was run was incoherent and terrible. IMHO we need to re-establish a sound TO game and consistently make the excellent execution of that group of plays the core of what we do. I have no objection to passing a little more and running an option package out of the shotgun as well. We DO need to pass better. We DO need better come from behind capability. I get that. Cleanly executing the option concepts puts a huge strain on the defense that will make the ancillary stuff way more effective. Our focus should be to identify a QB who can run the base as well as a typical NAVY QB and train him adequately to do so. The guys playing around him are better than NAVY. The offense should be better. That should be the platform from which to launch an effective passing game etc. I don't mind passing 30% of the time, but we HAVE to be able to run the bread and butter. In retrospect, trying to shape our offense around Vad was not a "disaster" necessarily, but at least, a step in the wrong direction.

One of the typical responses I hear frequently is "we need good coaching" without any further clarification of any kind indicating what phase of the coaching has been poor or what you would do differently in a specific sense. Implying that CPJ can't coach is just talking nonsense. So many of his teams have executed extremely well through the years that it renders such comments laughable. You can argue that his offense doesn't work at this level, or we can't recruit to it for the kind of athletes needed at the FBS level, fine. Just don't tell me he can't coach. He hasn't forgotten how to do that. We threw our entire bag of marbles on a QB that wasn't getting it, despite the coaching this year. That was the major problem. Apparently, none of the other guys were ready to grab the job away either. That is a tough position to be in as a coach. CPJ is responsible for bringing in the right guys. None of the guys he brought in were truly ready this season. Hold him responsible for that, fine. Once again, don't tell me he can't coach. I watch a lot of DVR film compared to most. He makes adjustments and he schemes well. He was just trying to squeeze blood out of a turnip this season.

In addition to my second paragraph, we need to stay the course with Roof on defense and keep building. In my mind, if we are going to make major changes, they should revolve around recruiting. The players are out there who can excel in our offense whether they are future NFLers or not. We need to fish in the right ponds and spend the money required to identify the right kids. More money and more resources. If we are hung up on finding future NFL draft picks, make them on defense first please. The right kind of QB for our offense probably won't play in the NFL at that position anyway, so what? We can certainly use another BayBay and Deisel for sure, but we don't HAVE TO HAVE them to have a pretty dynamic offense. They would be icing on the cake that would make for very special seasons. Those will happen every few years but what we really need is just a little higher level of consistency.
 

ybeenormal

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I just think the vad situation was as close to a no win situation as could be for pj. Had he benched him at ANY time, regardless of pj knowing where vads head and heart was, he would have been crucified if he knew jt wasnt ready. After all vad was supposed to be the savior.
 

Mack

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Mack......time will tell
Yeah but what is telling is that according to the sports writer at Augusta Chronicle.........we are not filling the stadium and are not able to spend money on recruiting and contracts.That tells me Brainless really did a number on us with Chan and Hewitt.
 

Animal02

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I just think the vad situation was as close to a no win situation as could be for pj. Had he benched him at ANY time, regardless of pj knowing where vads head and heart was, he would have been crucified if he knew jt wasnt ready. After all vad was supposed to be the savior.

I agree it would be a no win situation. It does make fools of the "anti Tevin" people of the last couple of years.
 

Mack

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I have to admit, I kind of object to the wording used in the original post. To me it sounds a bit like a drive by shooting, laced with some subtle anger, intended to do nothing more than stoke the fire rather than solve a problem. I guess, like many others, I am wondering what the definition of disaster is? In any case, without a precise understanding of what JD is after, I will offer these thoughts:

For those who say we need to move away from the base of the offense, being TO, and towards something else utilizing fewer cut blocks and more formations etc, I caution you. We have already done that THIS YEAR and you have seen the results - they have been mixed and cause for some concern. We barely ran any TO this season. I just got done watching the bowl on my DVR. There wasn't a whole lot of option run and the stuff that was run was incoherent and terrible. IMHO we need to re-establish a sound TO game and consistently make the excellent execution of that group of plays the core of what we do. I have no objection to passing a little more and running an option package out of the shotgun as well. We DO need to pass better. We DO need better come from behind capability. I get that. Cleanly executing the option concepts puts a huge strain on the defense that will make the ancillary stuff way more effective. Our focus should be to identify a QB who can run the base as well as a typical NAVY QB and train him adequately to do so. The guys playing around him are better than NAVY. The offense should be better. That should be the platform from which to launch an effective passing game etc. I don't mind passing 30% of the time, but we HAVE to be able to run the bread and butter. In retrospect, trying to shape our offense around Vad was not a "disaster" necessarily, but at least, a step in the wrong direction.

One of the typical responses I hear frequently is "we need good coaching" without any further clarification of any kind indicating what phase of the coaching has been poor or what you would do differently in a specific sense. Implying that CPJ can't coach is just talking nonsense. So many of his teams have executed extremely well through the years that it renders such comments laughable. You can argue that his offense doesn't work at this level, or we can't recruit to it for the kind of athletes needed at the FBS level, fine. Just don't tell me he can't coach. He hasn't forgotten how to do that. We threw our entire bag of marbles on a QB that wasn't getting it, despite the coaching this year. That was the major problem. Apparently, none of the other guys were ready to grab the job away either. That is a tough position to be in as a coach. CPJ is responsible for bringing in the right guys. None of the guys he brought in were truly ready this season. Hold him responsible for that, fine. Once again, don't tell me he can't coach. I watch a lot of DVR film compared to most. He makes adjustments and he schemes well. He was just trying to squeeze blood out of a turnip this season.

In addition to my second paragraph, we need to stay the course with Roof on defense and keep building. In my mind, if we are going to make major changes, they should revolve around recruiting. The players are out there who can excel in our offense whether they are future NFLers or not. We need to fish in the right ponds and spend the money required to identify the right kids. More money and more resources. If we are hung up on finding future NFL draft picks, make them on defense first please. The right kind of QB for our offense probably won't play in the NFL at that position anyway, so what? We can certainly use another BayBay and Deisel for sure, but we don't HAVE TO HAVE them to have a pretty dynamic offense. They would be icing on the cake that would make for very special seasons. Those will happen every few years but what we really need is just a little higher level of consistency.
Sort of agree Boom.......the same guy who won at Navy and GSU is same guy we have now but its clear that if we are going to run this option we need folks to do it.Vad is good athlete and PJ sort of hooked his star to him and it just wasnt so but JT even though he is light can be the qb we need if he can stay away from huge DE.I think the big rub is his personality vs media and on the sidelines and not getting the recruits he needs to win.Lot of coaches have same problem so the question is "how long do we wait to make a move" I dont see any change for maybe two more yrs..WE dont have the jack to buy anybody out but I would like to see wins and good fundamental tackling and ...........of course you remember it........traditional unis once a year.
 

Mack

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I think the main problem is a lack of a playmaker at the QB position both mentally and physically .
I thing the O line play needs to improve and if these two areas were improved all GT fans would like the results.
I think to do this CPJ is going to have to make some coaching changes and to play the best QB on the team and not play someone just because they are not his favorite.
John Davis I want to know what you think ? GO JACKETS !!!!
I agree with you guys but still can we get the guys we need to run this offense.Saw it live at southern and with Tracy Ham it was so much fun to watch.Big thing is we need to run this with speed and it starts at qb.No option team has been very successful without a play maker at qb.Time to play the best you have and go from there.
 

dressedcheeseside

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I think too many "friends and family" were in his ear saying he is NFL potential if he leaves. I don't see it.
I will say it again......any kid that comes to Tech thinking it is just a stepping stone to the NFL really does not belong here.

My business partner played for Woody Hayes...he told me about the speech he gave to the freshman at their first meeting....paraphrasing......that if they were there because they saw it as a path to the NFL, that they should just leave now. He told them the only reason they should be there is that they loved playing football and the loved playing for The Ohio State University.

That is the message that should be drilled into Tech players. The thought that a player would think that the entire system should be turned on its ear to play the way he wants to play is absurd. The mistake made by CPJ was not benching Vad at the first sign that his head and heart were not in playing within the system.

As for the program being a "nightmare" that is total BS. A nightmare program is one that goes 7-5, 4-6-1, 1-9-1, 1-10, 6-5. 3-8
I completely agree. The only thing I'd add is the pulling Vad part. If he had done that, the haters would just flame away on that. "The worst thing you can do with a young guy with talent who makes a few mistakes is to pull him and kill his self confidence, blah, blah, blah..." Maybe if JT was killing it in practice, but he had his own issues as well. It was a no win situation that could have back fired either way. If CPJ pulls Vad and JT has a little success and gets more time then Vad pouts and tranfers (like he actually did) then the **** really hits the fan from the haters.
 

Mack

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Damn Good Post. I responded to a lot of your points good read.
I think you have said it all.Dodd liked to get boys inside Atlanta such as Boys High etc..It worked for him and as much as I loved his ability to coach its clear we have got to go any and everywhere to get folks who can enter tech,play at tech and ....pass at tech.I am still waiting to see a Tech coach come by Jefferson County (young lads that is the county next to Augusta) and three or four years ago PJ signed two athletes.Hell last tech hat I got was from Combat Engineer who mailed me one.........we dont have acess to any tech stuff unless we drive fifty miles........how can we show the flag when flag seems to stay in Atlanta!
 

Mack

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I completely agree. The only thing I'd add is the pulling Vad part. If he had done that, the haters would just flame away on that. "The worst thing you can do with a young guy with talent who makes a few mistakes is to pull him and kill his self confidence, blah, blah, blah..." Maybe if JT was killing it in practice, but he had his own issues as well. It was a no win situation that could have back fired either way. If CPJ pulls Vad and JT has a little success and gets more time then Vad pouts and tranfers (like he actually did) then the **** really hits the fan from the haters.
Hey Cheese ...where you been dude ? what worries me is the tweet Bostic put out last week basically telling me the team may be split on many coaching issues.I know Bostic family and this is odd....of course when you dont play you do get upset.JD ...well he never was a PJ guy anyway but PJ made him some good money until he learned how to eat and eat and eat.This may be a problem unless its just one guy not getting playing time.Saw it first hand when JN was senior and itwas not pretty.
 

gtdrew

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Yeah but what is telling is that according to the sports writer at Augusta Chronicle.........we are not filling the stadium and are not able to spend money on recruiting and contracts.That tells me Brainless really did a number on us with Chan and Hewitt.
Who cares what some hack in augusta thinks? Let him write golf and sand gnat baseball...
 

dressedcheeseside

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Hey Cheese ...where you been dude ? what worries me is the tweet Bostic put out last week basically telling me the team may be split on many coaching issues.I know Bostic family and this is odd....of course when you dont play you do get upset.JD ...well he never was a PJ guy anyway but PJ made him some good money until he learned how to eat and eat and eat.This may be a problem unless its just one guy not getting playing time.Saw it first hand when JN was senior and itwas not pretty.
Hey mack, happy new year! I was taking some time off the boards during the holidays to enjoy it with family I don't get to see very much. I'm back now. Boy has this place changed in a hurry.
 

Mack

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Who cares what some hack in augusta thinks? Let him write golf and sand gnat baseball...
Well give that hack credit........it was the only damn time they put tech in the paper all week long but if he was a puppy qb or coach...........well do I need to fill in the blanks.Of course he also felt like we should have not let Chan go either based upon his record.
 

Mack

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Hey mack, happy new year! I was taking some time off the boards during the holidays to enjoy it with family I don't get to see very much. I'm back now. Boy has this place changed in a hurry.
Yep its fun but at times it can get dicey but we are used to that are we not ? Glad you are back in the saddle.
 

Sebastian GT

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I have to admit, I kind of object to the wording used in the original post. To me it sounds a bit like a drive by shooting, laced with some subtle anger, intended to do nothing more than stoke the fire rather than solve a problem. I guess, like many others, I am wondering what the definition of disaster is? In any case, without a precise understanding of what JD is after, I will offer these thoughts:

For those who say we need to move away from the base of the offense, being TO, and towards something else utilizing fewer cut blocks and more formations etc, I caution you. We have already done that THIS YEAR and you have seen the results - they have been mixed and cause for some concern. We barely ran any TO this season. I just got done watching the bowl on my DVR. There wasn't a whole lot of option run and the stuff that was run was incoherent and terrible. IMHO we need to re-establish a sound TO game and consistently make the excellent execution of that group of plays the core of what we do. I have no objection to passing a little more and running an option package out of the shotgun as well. We DO need to pass better. We DO need better come from behind capability. I get that. Cleanly executing the option concepts puts a huge strain on the defense that will make the ancillary stuff way more effective. Our focus should be to identify a QB who can run the base as well as a typical NAVY QB and train him adequately to do so. The guys playing around him are better than NAVY. The offense should be better. That should be the platform from which to launch an effective passing game etc. I don't mind passing 30% of the time, but we HAVE to be able to run the bread and butter. In retrospect, trying to shape our offense around Vad was not a "disaster" necessarily, but at least, a step in the wrong direction.

One of the typical responses I hear frequently is "we need good coaching" without any further clarification of any kind indicating what phase of the coaching has been poor or what you would do differently in a specific sense. Implying that CPJ can't coach is just talking nonsense. So many of his teams have executed extremely well through the years that it renders such comments laughable. You can argue that his offense doesn't work at this level, or we can't recruit to it for the kind of athletes needed at the FBS level, fine. Just don't tell me he can't coach. He hasn't forgotten how to do that. We threw our entire bag of marbles on a QB that wasn't getting it, despite the coaching this year. That was the major problem. Apparently, none of the other guys were ready to grab the job away either. That is a tough position to be in as a coach. CPJ is responsible for bringing in the right guys. None of the guys he brought in were truly ready this season. Hold him responsible for that, fine. Once again, don't tell me he can't coach. I watch a lot of DVR film compared to most. He makes adjustments and he schemes well. He was just trying to squeeze blood out of a turnip this season.

In addition to my second paragraph, we need to stay the course with Roof on defense and keep building. In my mind, if we are going to make major changes, they should revolve around recruiting. The players are out there who can excel in our offense whether they are future NFLers or not. We need to fish in the right ponds and spend the money required to identify the right kids. More money and more resources. If we are hung up on finding future NFL draft picks, make them on defense first please. The right kind of QB for our offense probably won't play in the NFL at that position anyway, so what? We can certainly use another BayBay and Deisel for sure, but we don't HAVE TO HAVE them to have a pretty dynamic offense. They would be icing on the cake that would make for very special seasons. Those will happen every few years but what we really need is just a little higher level of consistency.

I see your point here however I think there is a bigger point that you are not considering. IMO we are asking our o-line to do the impossible. We are asking kids to take huge splits and come out of a 3 point stance on 3rd and long and pass block an athletic d-end who is coming off the edge from a sprinters stance. Combine that with linebackers and the more athletic d-linemen shooting the huge gaps due to the splits and it's an impossible situation to pass block effectively. I don't care who the QB is. If you are dropping back with guys in your face from the snap of the ball you will fail. We see this all the time. The penetration into our backfield that we typically see against the better teams is astounding. This offense is designed to run Paul's same 5 or 6 run based plays over and over again to try and take advantage of a numbers game with the defense. At a lower level of football or at a service academy you can succeed doing it and have some small semblance of a passing game. Not at our level when playing the better teams. Our overall lack of talent just makes it a more impossible task to create an effective passing game. The more talented teams we play every year have adjusted to our base offense and can effectively stop it. It's no longer foreign to them the way it was the first couple of years we ran it. I am tired of seeing our linemen dive at ankles trying to block more athletic d-linemen and linebackers who are penetrating the huge gaps created by the wide line splits. We are asking those kids to do the impossible. If Paul would have truly wanted to implement an effective passing offense he would've started by changing the scheme up front but he wont do that. Therefore we get what saw this year. A passing QB being forced to run down the line option plays very awkwardly and then when it came time to throw asking him to do the impossible by bailing us out with his arm while running for his life. I mean when its third and long if we cut the splits down and allowed the line to stay up in a two point stance who cares if it gives away that we are going to throw. It doesn't mean they can stop it if our QB has time to set his feet and throw. Of course this would also require receivers being allowed to run all the routes of a common passing tree but that's another topic all together.
 

AlabamaBuzz

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I see your point here however I think there is a bigger point that you are not considering. IMO we are asking our o-line to do the impossible. We are asking kids to take huge splits and come out of a 3 point stance on 3rd and long and pass block an athletic d-end who is coming off the edge from a sprinters stance. Combine that with linebackers and the more athletic d-linemen shooting the huge gaps due to the splits and it's an impossible situation to pass block effectively. I don't care who the QB is. If you are dropping back with guys in your face from the snap of the ball you will fail. We see this all the time. The penetration into our backfield that we typically see against the better teams is astounding. This offense is designed to run Paul's same 5 or 6 run based plays over and over again to try and take advantage of a numbers game with the defense. At a lower level of football or at a service academy you can succeed doing it and have some small semblance of a passing game. Not at our level when playing the better teams. Our overall lack of talent just makes it a more impossible task to create an effective passing game. The more talented teams we play every year have adjusted to our base offense and can effectively stop it. It's no longer foreign to them the way it was the first couple of years we ran it. I am tired of seeing our linemen dive at ankles trying to block more athletic d-linemen and linebackers who are penetrating the huge gaps created by the wide line splits. We are asking those kids to do the impossible. If Paul would have truly wanted to implement an effective passing offense he would've started by changing the scheme up front but he wont do that. Therefore we get what saw this year. A passing QB being forced to run down the line option plays very awkwardly and then when it came time to throw asking him to do the impossible by bailing us out with his arm while running for his life. I mean when its third and long if we cut the splits down and allowed the line to stay up in a two point stance who cares if it gives away that we are going to throw. It doesn't mean they can stop it if our QB has time to set his feet and throw. Of course this would also require receivers being allowed to run all the routes of a common passing tree but that's another topic all together.


THIS>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>so much
 

AE 87

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I have to admit, I kind of object to the wording used in the original post. To me it sounds a bit like a drive by shooting, laced with some subtle anger, intended to do nothing more than stoke the fire rather than solve a problem. I guess, like many others, I am wondering what the definition of disaster is? In any case, without a precise understanding of what JD is after, I will offer these thoughts:

For those who say we need to move away from the base of the offense, being TO, and towards something else utilizing fewer cut blocks and more formations etc, I caution you. We have already done that THIS YEAR and you have seen the results - they have been mixed and cause for some concern. We barely ran any TO this season. I just got done watching the bowl on my DVR. There wasn't a whole lot of option run and the stuff that was run was incoherent and terrible. IMHO we need to re-establish a sound TO game and consistently make the excellent execution of that group of plays the core of what we do. I have no objection to passing a little more and running an option package out of the shotgun as well. We DO need to pass better. We DO need better come from behind capability. I get that. Cleanly executing the option concepts puts a huge strain on the defense that will make the ancillary stuff way more effective. Our focus should be to identify a QB who can run the base as well as a typical NAVY QB and train him adequately to do so. The guys playing around him are better than NAVY. The offense should be better. That should be the platform from which to launch an effective passing game etc. I don't mind passing 30% of the time, but we HAVE to be able to run the bread and butter. In retrospect, trying to shape our offense around Vad was not a "disaster" necessarily, but at least, a step in the wrong direction.

One of the typical responses I hear frequently is "we need good coaching" without any further clarification of any kind indicating what phase of the coaching has been poor or what you would do differently in a specific sense. Implying that CPJ can't coach is just talking nonsense. So many of his teams have executed extremely well through the years that it renders such comments laughable. You can argue that his offense doesn't work at this level, or we can't recruit to it for the kind of athletes needed at the FBS level, fine. Just don't tell me he can't coach. He hasn't forgotten how to do that. We threw our entire bag of marbles on a QB that wasn't getting it, despite the coaching this year. That was the major problem. Apparently, none of the other guys were ready to grab the job away either. That is a tough position to be in as a coach. CPJ is responsible for bringing in the right guys. None of the guys he brought in were truly ready this season. Hold him responsible for that, fine. Once again, don't tell me he can't coach. I watch a lot of DVR film compared to most. He makes adjustments and he schemes well. He was just trying to squeeze blood out of a turnip this season.

In addition to my second paragraph, we need to stay the course with Roof on defense and keep building. In my mind, if we are going to make major changes, they should revolve around recruiting. The players are out there who can excel in our offense whether they are future NFLers or not. We need to fish in the right ponds and spend the money required to identify the right kids. More money and more resources. If we are hung up on finding future NFL draft picks, make them on defense first please. The right kind of QB for our offense probably won't play in the NFL at that position anyway, so what? We can certainly use another BayBay and Deisel for sure, but we don't HAVE TO HAVE them to have a pretty dynamic offense. They would be icing on the cake that would make for very special seasons. Those will happen every few years but what we really need is just a little higher level of consistency.
This
 

Whiskey_Clear

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We don't typically have huge splits when we throw. We run a hell of a lot more run plays than 5-6. And our receivers run the same route trees as traditional offenses.
 
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