How do we feel about our wide receivers?

AE 87

Helluva Engineer
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12,967
No, you've simply lost the plot.

You need to re-read my OP. Obviously you would rather make this about just two stats, when the overiding message in my OP went deeper than just completion percentage and efficiency ranking on the stat sheets. Everyone else got it.

Your reaction to my OP is symptomatic of some GT fans. When someone tries to explain a root cause of a weakness on the team, you'd rather point to some misleading stats. It's obvious who gets the plot (or understands the passing game) and who doesn't.

Anyhow, I'm done here.

There's no lost plot. I was making a fairly straight forward and simple response to the following post which I will subdivide but otherwise not edit:

Um, completion percentage is part of passing efficiency equation. Therefore the lower the completion percentage, the lower the passing efficiency.

You focused on these two stats in a way that was factually inaccurate. You did so in a way that came off to me as condescending. I demonstrated the inaccuracy of this post by showing how we had one of the most efficient passing attacks in the same year as we were one of the worst in completion %.

Your most recent response to me accusing me of losing the plot similarly seems condescending which seems ironic given the circumstances.

People, I totally disagree with the "As long as we're more efficient, passing completion doesn't matter." Think about that statement, and how it contradicts itself. You know what a sub 50% completion percentage says to me? It says we're unsuccessful less than 50% of the time we try to pass. Sure, you'd rather have a 20+ yard gain off a pass rather than 4-5 yard gain, but how effective are we 20+ yards down the field? I can promise it's not succesfull anywhere near 45% of the time.

This point is undermined by the same data. Obviously, completion % does impact efficiency. However, when we are more efficient even with a lower completion %, then that means that our passing attack is complementing our running attack. Again, the point is not that we are satisfied with where we have been but that your "promise" has just been shown to be demonstrably false.

I pointed this out in another thread, but you can be highly efficient with a high completion percentage. In fact, the modern day passing game is based of huge "chunk" plays down the field in combination with a high completion percentage. Look at the best passing attacks in the nation (TX A&M, Baylor, Clemson, FSU, etc.). Not only are they leading the nation in being "efficient", but they're also completing around 60%+ of their passes. You can have your cake and eat it when it comes to completion % and efficiency.

I've got no problem with this, but it's beside the point in responding to the point Whiskey Clear was making.

CPJ may defend his passing by talking about efficiency, and it's clear a lot of people on here are buying it, but until he puts a credible passing attack on the field CONSISTENTLY, I'm more apt to believe it's "coach speak" in defending a dismal passing game. Facts are, if you look at the history of CPJ's passing game, it's been far from efficient or successful consistently for almost 2 decades now.

Again, the facts are that in passing efficiency, yards/attempt, we were #1 in 2009, #1 in 2011, #2 in 2012, and even tied for #20 in 2013.

Listen, we're a running team. So we're not going to put up big passing numbers. That's not our thing. I get it. BUT, we can be better at passing the ball, and to me that starts with actually getting the ball from the QB to receiver more often. Right now, we're doing it less than 50% of the time.

I took this to mean that our completion % has been less than 50%. I agree that we should expect better. However, it doesn't help your argument for a better passing attack to double down on ignorance.
 

Techster

Helluva Engineer
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12,688
I took this to mean that our completion % has been less than 50%. I agree that we should expect better. However, it doesn't help your argument for a better passing attack to double down on ignorance.


Haha...wow. I guess when reasoning doesn't work, there's always name calling. That tact always works...
 

CornerBlitz

Jolly Good Fellow
Messages
160
I hope Autry is able to return full strength. He is a very natural receiver....reminds me a little of Harvey Middleton.

Unfortunately, Waller reminds me of Stephen Hill. Classic looks like Tarzan plays like Jane. He has to become more physical and aggressive to matter to opposing defenses.

Smelter looks like the real deal. Throw him the ball d_mn't. Obviously one if not the best football players on the team.

Don't know much about the other guys.
 
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Returning: Smelter, Waller, Autry, Dennis, Summers

New: Messick, Jeune

Smelter showed flashes of real talent. Has great hand-eye coordination, is eager to block, is physical. He lacks elite speed and we struggled to get him the ball sometimes.

Waller is a great physical specimen. Should be our deep threat but, again, we struggled to even target him downfield. Inconsistent effort in getting to contested passes. Decent to good blocker.

Summers is quick and seems to be high-effort but doesn't have good blocking technique yet. Not a bad route runner.

Dennis - blocks.

Autry - great blocker, seemed to have great spatial awareness and a real desire to mix it up with defenders. Will he be the same guy?

Can we expect Messick or Jeune to get any real snaps this year?
With all Vad's other issues, he was a very good and accurate passer, especially on longer throws. I think a great passer makes receivers look better than they might otherwise be. We haven't seen enough of JT to know what kind of passing drop -off there might be, but surely he is not the passer that Lee was. All the speed, and route running and hands issues will be secondary to blocking, we all know that. They receivers that can't block won't be on the field to make any receptions. And I guess that is the way that it should be. If we are going to be run-first, then be must have that extra blocking. Successful rushing has always set up our passing game.
 

Boomergump

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Featured Member
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With all Vad's other issues, he was a very good and accurate passer, especially on longer throws. I think a great passer makes receivers look better than they might otherwise be. We haven't seen enough of JT to know what kind of passing drop -off there might be, but surely he is not the passer that Lee was. All the speed, and route running and hands issues will be secondary to blocking, we all know that. They receivers that can't block won't be on the field to make any receptions. And I guess that is the way that it should be. If we are going to be run-first, then be must have that extra blocking. Successful rushing has always set up our passing game.
JT made some really nice throws in 2013. In fact, I would say he is pretty accurate and has surprisingly good touch. His problem was more about decision making than it was ability to deliver the ball. He made some ill-advised throws where he tried to force it down field with his weight going the wrong way and his feet tied up etc, just like he did pitching the ball in the run game. He telegraphed a couple as well that got picked. His completion % is pretty good. He just needs to cut back on the completions to the other guys and the risk taking. Can't force everything!
 
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