****hole Countries
- Thread starter ATL1
- Start date
He's denying he 'used those words' I guess.
The fact of the matter is though, even if he didn't say exactly what many are saying he did, no one would be surprised if he did actually say what's being attributed to him. That's the problem in and of itself, right?
Lastly, I've nearly given up on getting outraged about any of it. All I'm learning is there's a large percentage of the population that's apparently been waiting for someone in power to openly speak/act as he does.
It's genuinely scary. What have people been saying in private all these years when we thought we were progressing towards some kind of unity?
The fact of the matter is though, even if he didn't say exactly what many are saying he did, no one would be surprised if he did actually say what's being attributed to him. That's the problem in and of itself, right?
Lastly, I've nearly given up on getting outraged about any of it. All I'm learning is there's a large percentage of the population that's apparently been waiting for someone in power to openly speak/act as he does.
It's genuinely scary. What have people been saying in private all these years when we thought we were progressing towards some kind of unity?
TechnicalPossum
Ramblin' Wreck
- Messages
- 801
I wasn't around in the 60's either, but I'd say there is a difference in controlling who enters the borders of a country and pushing to keep citizens of the country treated as third class based on the color of their skin.
Deleted member 2897
Guest
You guys really need to stop watching mainstream news programs. Or at least do some Google searches to find out what's going on. I'm not trying to sound condescending by saying that, but literally the entire media is out to bring him down. They will never tell you the truth.
The truth was that the conversation was around the lottery green card program, which has brought in nearly 2 million people since it began...by a complete blind lottery system. Normally we allow people to immigrate to this country based on religious persecution, looking for a better life, you name it. We do background checks on those people and make sure they have enough resources, intent, family connections, and background that they can make a run at being successful in their new life. The lottery program did literally none of that (aside from security background checks). It didn't matter if these were peasants from the dry wastelands of Gabon that had no education, no family ties, no nothing. We have to have immigration caps or else 90% of the world would try to move here. And with these caps, we should prioritize who comes. Having a lottery to bring people here who have no hope of being successful instead of a doctor or accountant, or at least has a family making their way is pointless. And then once here, those people can then do the extended family thing and bring in dozens more of the same.
Trump wasn't talking about not letting people come from Haiti or Gabon or you name it - he was talking about not letting people AT RANDOM from a LOTTERY get selected to come from these places.
Its a totally different context than what they're saying on the news. They're making it sound like he just wants to stop all immigration from certain countries, and the conversation in the room had literally nothing to do with that.
Its why many people continue to have a massive distrust and dislike of the media. Their biased intentions that cloud the very words that come out of their mouth is disgusting.
And by the way, tens of thousands of people from this program came from places like Ireland and Uzbekistan. So also don't let anybody tell you this was about black people. The conversation never discussed race one bit. Disgusting.
The truth was that the conversation was around the lottery green card program, which has brought in nearly 2 million people since it began...by a complete blind lottery system. Normally we allow people to immigrate to this country based on religious persecution, looking for a better life, you name it. We do background checks on those people and make sure they have enough resources, intent, family connections, and background that they can make a run at being successful in their new life. The lottery program did literally none of that (aside from security background checks). It didn't matter if these were peasants from the dry wastelands of Gabon that had no education, no family ties, no nothing. We have to have immigration caps or else 90% of the world would try to move here. And with these caps, we should prioritize who comes. Having a lottery to bring people here who have no hope of being successful instead of a doctor or accountant, or at least has a family making their way is pointless. And then once here, those people can then do the extended family thing and bring in dozens more of the same.
Trump wasn't talking about not letting people come from Haiti or Gabon or you name it - he was talking about not letting people AT RANDOM from a LOTTERY get selected to come from these places.
Its a totally different context than what they're saying on the news. They're making it sound like he just wants to stop all immigration from certain countries, and the conversation in the room had literally nothing to do with that.
Its why many people continue to have a massive distrust and dislike of the media. Their biased intentions that cloud the very words that come out of their mouth is disgusting.
And by the way, tens of thousands of people from this program came from places like Ireland and Uzbekistan. So also don't let anybody tell you this was about black people. The conversation never discussed race one bit. Disgusting.
OldJacketFan
Helluva Engineer
- Messages
- 8,348
- Location
- Nashville, TN
The big bad media is out to get the dear leader. Everything is fake news no matter what if it doesn't kiss the arse of the dear leader. He was scum before the election, he's scum now and he will always be scum.
Deleted member 2897
Guest
I'm confused. It was the very basis of the post and discussion. Going back to Jim Crow, going back to slavery. He's a racist.
The guy is a blubbering idiot. But it doesn't help when the media puts false words into his mouth like they did here. And then everybody believes it and runs with it.
Seems to be 2 separate lines of discussion going on ... (a) the MAGA stuff and (b) the actual immigration discussion.
If I'm hearing you correctly, it sounds like you're thinking people are taking the immigration stuff and surmising he's racist. I don't think there's a straight line there.
Although it's not what I said ITT, I do have an issue with the whole MAGA notion as it implies things were great for everybody "back then". Touting a return to "those days" brings the racism stuff onto the table IMHO.
I don't doubt the immigration discussion went as you portrayed it however, in light of the fact that the MAGA stuff implies a racist/prejudiced mindset, it's hard to hear a person refer to those countries negatively but decide he doesn't feel that way about us.
I don't think I need to put false words in his mouth to come to this conclusion.
ilovetheoption
Helluva Engineer
- Messages
- 2,816
"
In addition, the president singled out Haiti, telling lawmakers that immigrants from that country must be left out of any deal, these people said.
“Why do we need more Haitians?” Trump said, according to people familiar with the meeting. “Take them out.”
Ill try to explain this as best I can. I am sure it is going to sound ridiculous.
Ill preface by saying I did not vote for the man.....or the woman for that matter.
I don't think the progression towards unity is/was a farce first and foremost. This moron being elected was more about the white middle class being tired of constantly being portrayed as the bad guy. I say that knowing that throughout history that group of people have done some pretty unsavory ****. But when a certain group of people can't even disagree with the most innocuous points of view without being labeled a bigot, racist, nazi, hateful, oppressive person and those frustrations are further fueled by a media agenda that is to show EVERYONE "this" but never "that", it will wear on those people who really just want to go to ****ing work and be left alone. Was it their turn to take a beating? Probably. But with that beating comes to the opportunity to unite and do something about it. They just made the wrong decision on how to make their stand.
At the end of the day this presidency is a result of the white middle class giving everyone the finger. Of course there are some delusional people as well who are so far behind in the race they actually think they are winning but you have those people regardless of who is in leadership and they can't be taken seriously. The people that got this guy elected may point to the stock market and job market as a positive to give themselves some comfort but they certainly cant look at how this president acts or the impending war with NK with any pride.
As far as immigration. I just want newcomers to pay taxes and go through the naturalization process. Illegal immigrants are illegal. It's pretty simple for me. Come here, be citizens, pay taxes, eat, drink, be merry.
UgaBlows
Helluva Engineer
- Messages
- 6,831
So nobody from the White-house denied the story until trump’s tweet 15 hours later, that’s not a good look. Then you have Senator Durbin confirming the reporting that trump did indeed say these things. Who do you believe a serial liar or Durbin/reporters?
http://thehill.com/homenews/senate/...nial-he-said-those-hateful-things-and-he-said
http://thehill.com/homenews/senate/...nial-he-said-those-hateful-things-and-he-said
To be fair, most of what you say sounds ridiculous to me so .... heigh-ohhh
Seriously though, this is a pretty good synopsis of the level-headed Trump voters' motivations I think. This is what I understand their mindset to be on the rational level. I even empathize with them to a degree. Where I get confused is in the constant support no matter what he says/does. It starts to smell like blind allegiance at this point which is scary.
I'd feel better if they'd say, as you said, "Heeey the market's up improvements are being made job-wise but man I wish this dude would act like a President and not a petty, impulsive child."
Instead, it's like, "Wait y'all don't like something he did? WELL THEN I LUV IT, MAGAMAGAMAGA!!!"
I agree totally on immigration. We have a system in place. Duh ... make. people. use. it. Trying to create situational shortcuts is where you run into problems.
ETA: And, for the record @bwelbo , I think I get where you're coming from. Seems like you just want folks to come to their conclusions for the right reasons.
Last edited:
Deleted member 2897
Guest
Please read my post above. I think you completely missed the point.
It’s the context of the comment.
AE 87
Helluva Engineer
- Messages
- 13,026
I, for one, do not think that the government-corruption, poverty and lack of education in the countries which were under discussion is a consequence of the skin-color or ethnicity of the people or their leaders. Only people who think that way would consider Trump racist for whatever he said.
Of course, that doesn't mean he should use such language.
Of course, that doesn't mean he should use such language.
UgaBlows
Helluva Engineer
- Messages
- 6,831
And how could you know the context? Trump’s word? Not calling you out but i’d like to see your source. No matter the context those were horrible, racist and unpresidential statements, i’m really not sure why anyone would try to defend him on this one.
Here’s more confirmation from a republican
http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-brief...sen-graham-confirmed-trumps-reported-****hole
Last edited:
TechnicalPossum
Ramblin' Wreck
- Messages
- 801
The link there is dead.
UgaBlows
Helluva Engineer
- Messages
- 6,831
Is this fake news from WSJ? Aren’t they conservative media?
https://www.wsj.com/amp/articles/tr...-silence-1515787678?__twitter_impression=true
https://www.wsj.com/amp/articles/tr...-silence-1515787678?__twitter_impression=true
UgaBlows
Helluva Engineer
- Messages
- 6,831
I think the forum is editing out trump’s bad language and messing up the link
“Sen. Tim Scott (R-S.C.) said Friday that his fellow South Carolina Sen. Lindsay Graham (R), who attended a bipartisan meeting with President Trump and lawmakers Thursday, confirmed a Washington Post account of Trump's remarks calling Haiti, El Salvador and some African nations "****hole countries."
Scott, the Senate's lone black Republican, told The Post and Courier on Friday that Graham confirmed the newspaper's account of the conversation, which Scott said he found "incredibly disappointing."
“We ought not to disparage any other nation, frankly," Scott said. "Thinking about the success of America. It is the melting pot. It’s the ability to weave together multiple communities together for one nation.”
FredJacket
Helluva Engineer
- Messages
- 6,244
- Location
- Fredericksburg, Virginia
The fact that it is an outstanding question... and therefore, a debate over whether our president may or may not be a racist in 2018 in this country is in plain terms... sad & disappointing.
Trump has Twitter...& an entire staff of highly paid PR folks. If he wanted to unite & not be "perceived" a racist...HE could fix that starting tomorrow. He carefully & calculatingly chooses not to. It's infuriating.
Trump has Twitter...& an entire staff of highly paid PR folks. If he wanted to unite & not be "perceived" a racist...HE could fix that starting tomorrow. He carefully & calculatingly chooses not to. It's infuriating.
Deleted member 2897
Guest
Blah blah blah. It was a bipartisan meeting where nobody got up and left, quit, or ran for the door to protest when he said it. All these irate insulted and offended people are basing their opinion on others’ news reports. The way I know the context is because that was the point of the meeting. He is on record many times saying he wants to end those programs.
The Boy Who Cried Racism is so exhausting and counterproductive.
The Boy Who Cried Racism is so exhausting and counterproductive.