Hey boys, you guys might enjoy this (you might not)

[ilovetheoption]

If this is the wrong forum, or if you just DGAF, that's fine, please feel free to delete.

ANYHOW, my brother was recently promoted to head coach at his high school on the west coast. Although I live in DC, he has asked me to plan the running game portion of his offense, soup to nuts. Concept, playbook, game planning, post game lessons learned from gamefilm, etc. He's got the following constraints.

1) Wants to operate primarily out of the I (pro or twins) and 4 wide gun (they were a gun/zone running team last year, he's moving them to a gap scheme)
2) No Triple option (he can't teach the dive read, and I'm a coast away)
3) He retains veto authority
4) Running game has to integrate nicely with passing game (which he'll be in charge of)

I'd love to get your guys' thoughts, insights as the season goes by.

So far:
1) I've asked him to implement a "wings" formation. Like Paul Johnson, but with the Tailback set further back, and the wingbacks are HBack types (realistically, it's the TE and the FB, from when the team is in the I formation). So it's really closer to an Ace/Detroit set with the TE's stepped back. This means we can present 4 verticals at the snap, but can easy shuffle motion to I formation (not arc motion like GT), and it's also really easy to get into I Strong/I Weak and unbalance the line but motioning one of the wings all the way across the formation. It also make it easier to flex guys out into bunch formations, twins, etc.

For branding purposes, we're calling those positions S and B (Super-back and Bat-back) (it's much more fun than (left Hback and right Hback).

2) Out of I (and wings) we're going to run
To Strong:
Power
Counter Trey
Dive (Fullback to A-gap)
Dive Follow (Bob Davie's QB duck )
Dive Option (called double option, nebraska style, FB tries to get the SS)
Lead/ISO (we're calling it Lead)
Wham
Load Option
Toss
Belly G (playside guard pulls outside and kicks the D gap out)
Midline (not option, just a quick fb pop)

To weak:
Counter
Kick Weak (just power to weak, but didn't want to call it power and confuse the kids)
Lead Weak
Dive Weak
Speed Option

3) Out of Gun we're going to run
Inside Zone
Outside Zone
Backside Read option
Veer invert
Lead QB Draw
Speed Option

4) Passing game out of Run will include a lot of P80/P90 (rollout passing game based on Power look, where the fulback instead of kicking becomes the flat receiver and you run a lot of TE/Z combo routes, and every play give the QB the option to tuck and run if it's there.

I'd love your guys thoughts/questions (if only as a way to keep in touch with a fanbase I have come to enjoy )

(no i will not be telling you what school it is, lol)

 

[Dottie1145]

If this is the wrong forum, or if you just DGAF, that's fine, please feel free to delete.

ANYHOW, my brother was recently promoted to head coach at his high school on the west coast. Although I live in DC, he has asked me to plan the running game portion of his offense, soup to nuts. Concept, playbook, game planning, post game lessons learned from gamefilm, etc. He's got the following constraints.

1) Wants to operate primarily out of the I (pro or twins) and 4 wide gun (they were a gun/zone running team last year, he's moving them to a gap scheme)
2) No Triple option (he can't teach the dive read, and I'm a coast away)
3) He retains veto authority
4) Running game has to integrate nicely with passing game (which he'll be in charge of)

I'd love to get your guys' thoughts, insights as the season goes by.

So far:
1) I've asked him to implement a "wings" formation. Like Paul Johnson, but with the Tailback set further back, and the wingbacks are HBack types (realistically, it's the TE and the FB, from when the team is in the I formation). So it's really closer to an Ace/Detroit set with the TE's stepped back. This means we can present 4 verticals at the snap, but can easy shuffle motion to I formation (not arc motion like GT), and it's also really easy to get into I Strong/I Weak and unbalance the line but motioning one of the wings all the way across the formation. It also make it easier to flex guys out into bunch formations, twins, etc.

For branding purposes, we're calling those positions S and B (Super-back and Bat-back) (it's much more fun than (left Hback and right Hback).

2) Out of I (and wings) we're going to run
To Strong:
Power
Counter Trey
Dive (Fullback to A-gap)
Dive Follow (Bob Davie's QB duck )
Dive Option (called double option, nebraska style, FB tries to get the SS)
Lead/ISO (we're calling it Lead)
Wham
Load Option
Toss
Belly G (playside guard pulls outside and kicks the D gap out)
Midline (not option, just a quick fb pop)

To weak:
Counter
Kick Weak (just power to weak, but didn't want to call it power and confuse the kids)
Lead Weak
Dive Weak
Speed Option

3) Out of Gun we're going to run
Inside Zone
Outside Zone
Backside Read option
Veer invert
Lead QB Draw
Speed Option

4) Passing game out of Run will include a lot of P80/P90 (rollout passing game based on Power look, where the fulback instead of kicking becomes the flat receiver and you run a lot of TE/Z combo routes, and every play give the QB the option to tuck and run if it's there.

I'd love your guys thoughts/questions (if only as a way to keep in touch with a fanbase I have come to enjoy )

(no i will not be telling you what school it is, lol)

Don’t care, To Hell With Virginia!!!

Just kidding. I find it interesting that he can’t teach the dive read, being a simple high school offense.

 

[YJMD]

I think you should watch some film of Fridge's offense circa 1998-99. Seems like you could incorporate a lot of option out of the sets he wants that fits really nicely with the passing game. Fridge also used some great misdirection in the run game. I bet that kills in HS.

 

[ilovetheoption]

Don’t care, To Hell With Virginia!!!

Just kidding. I find it interesting that he can’t teach the dive read, being a simple high school offense.

LOL, he could, but to teach it right you have to teach it right, and it has to kind of be "what you do". He doesn't want the veer to be the base play in his offense. He wants power and counter to be the running base, and just enough option to keep the defense honest.

There's also the deal that these kids have been in a shot-gun spread for several years, and the kids are a little apprehensive about going to a more smashmouth system, and being a triple team first and foremost might cause kids not to come out (and there are barely enough kids playing at this school as it is).

As with GT, it's a recruiting issue

 

[Yoda]

I'd basically try to do my best to run what Willie Fritz/Bob Debessee are doing or what Fridge did with JoeHam.

 

[TampaGT]

If this is the wrong forum, or if you just DGAF, that's fine, please feel free to delete.

ANYHOW, my brother was recently promoted to head coach at his high school on the west coast. Although I live in DC, he has asked me to plan the running game portion of his offense, soup to nuts. Concept, playbook, game planning, post game lessons learned from gamefilm, etc. He's got the following constraints.

1) Wants to operate primarily out of the I (pro or twins) and 4 wide gun (they were a gun/zone running team last year, he's moving them to a gap scheme)
2) No Triple option (he can't teach the dive read, and I'm a coast away)
3) He retains veto authority
4) Running game has to integrate nicely with passing game (which he'll be in charge of)

I'd love to get your guys' thoughts, insights as the season goes by.

So far:
1) I've asked him to implement a "wings" formation. Like Paul Johnson, but with the Tailback set further back, and the wingbacks are HBack types (realistically, it's the TE and the FB, from when the team is in the I formation). So it's really closer to an Ace/Detroit set with the TE's stepped back. This means we can present 4 verticals at the snap, but can easy shuffle motion to I formation (not arc motion like GT), and it's also really easy to get into I Strong/I Weak and unbalance the line but motioning one of the wings all the way across the formation. It also make it easier to flex guys out into bunch formations, twins, etc.

For branding purposes, we're calling those positions S and B (Super-back and Bat-back) (it's much more fun than (left Hback and right Hback).

2) Out of I (and wings) we're going to run
To Strong:
Power
Counter Trey
Dive (Fullback to A-gap)
Dive Follow (Bob Davie's QB duck )
Dive Option (called double option, nebraska style, FB tries to get the SS)
Lead/ISO (we're calling it Lead)
Wham
Load Option
Toss
Belly G (playside guard pulls outside and kicks the D gap out)
Midline (not option, just a quick fb pop)

To weak:
Counter
Kick Weak (just power to weak, but didn't want to call it power and confuse the kids)
Lead Weak
Dive Weak
Speed Option

3) Out of Gun we're going to run
Inside Zone
Outside Zone
Backside Read option
Veer invert
Lead QB Draw
Speed Option

4) Passing game out of Run will include a lot of P80/P90 (rollout passing game based on Power look, where the fulback instead of kicking becomes the flat receiver and you run a lot of TE/Z combo routes, and every play give the QB the option to tuck and run if it's there.

I'd love your guys thoughts/questions (if only as a way to keep in touch with a fanbase I have come to enjoy )

(no i will not be telling you what school it is, lol)

That sounds great, can we get some updates during the season maybe some highlight video

 

[ilovetheoption]

That sounds great, can we get some updates during the season maybe some highlight video

LOL, depends on how it goes. Frankly I'm pretty worried. We're 2 weeks from kickoff, they don't have ANY live scrimmages, and he's only really got power, counter, Dive, and Lead installed (plus all the gun stuff that they know from last year).

The QB has never taken a snap from center in H.S. and my brother had to teach him all the footwork from scratch (the kid didn't know a clear step from dubstep).

This may be a tough first half of the season.

 

[stech81]

I think he should pay you

And miss you on here.

 

[33jacket]

LOL, depends on how it goes. Frankly I'm pretty worried. We're 2 weeks from kickoff, they don't have ANY live scrimmages, and he's only really got power, counter, Dive, and Lead installed (plus all the gun stuff that they know from last year).

The QB has never taken a snap from center in H.S. and my brother had to teach him all the footwork from scratch (the kid didn't know a clear step from dubstep).

This may be a tough first half of the season.

Before u even said the above i was going to tell you this is too complex. Now i am really thinking that. In your playset you have three ol blocking schemes with different philosophies and assignments. Zone, you have some man techniques and some true option techniques. And sure in some cases you can do that. But most O narrow down this a bit in assignments, front calls, pro pickups etc.

Imo. You should settle on a blocking philosophy first so its simpler for them and build the playbook from there.

If it was me. I would zone all the time basically; and rpo and double option off it.

 

[iceeater1969]

Son has been head hs coach for a long time ( i am old). Plays are good, but teaching methods are key. Standing and yelling has some place but showing and telling must be demonstrated by the Boss. There are clinics for this Good luck and keep us up to date .

 

[ilovetheoption]

Before u even said the above i was going to tell you this is too complex. Now i am really thinking that. In your playset you have three ol blocking schemes with different philosophies and assignments. Zone, you have some man techniques and some true option techniques. And sure in some cases you can do that. But most O narrow down this a bit in assignments, front calls, pro pickups etc.

Imo. You should settle on a blocking philosophy first so its simpler for them and build the playbook from there.

If it was me. I would zone all the time basically; and rpo and double option off it.

TBH, I agree with a lot of this, conceptually.

The thing is, we actually DON'T have any option techniques, OL wise.

Playside it's always going to be Down/Over/Back (except for the Wham and the Belly G, which won't be installed until later in the year as special variety plays).

On Power/Counter/Counter Trey/Kick weak, the pullers/fullback TECHNICALLY have different kick/wrap responsibilities (but we both know that it's going to end up being "First Wrong Color")

I'd prefer to do away with the zone blocking schemes, but with so little time to teach, that'll be for next year. They already know the zone stuff in the gun, so that's time saved.

 

[SidewalkJacket]

What @33jacket said.

It's all about the blocking scheme. And it needs to be simple.

The plays can be infinite, but the blocking needs to be the same for most of it in high school.

 

[danny daniel]

Before u even said the above i was going to tell you this is too complex. Now i am really thinking that. In your playset you have three ol blocking schemes with different philosophies and assignments. Zone, you have some man techniques and some true option techniques. And sure in some cases you can do that. But most O narrow down this a bit in assignments, front calls, pro pickups etc.

Imo. You should settle on a blocking philosophy first so its simpler for them and build the playbook from there.

If it was me. I would zone all the time basically; and rpo and double option off it.

My two cents:
For the O to be successful the O COACH should understand it completely and be the GURU (CPJ) The COACH should be able to teach it to the players and his assistants. The players should be able to learn it and execute it. The O should be versatile enough to take advantage of what the D gives you (run, pass, attack inside or outside, and have a misdirection threat at least). Many different schemes could be successful with these ingredients and some talent.

 

[iceeater1969]

What @33jacket said.

It's all about the blocking scheme. And it needs to be simple.

The plays can be infinite, but the blocking needs to be the same for most of it in high school.

And teach them that holding is legal for .5 sec on running plays and 1 second on pass plays.

 

[Gtbowhunter90]

If he wants to stay away from the veer because his kids are apprehensive to play smashmouth, why doesnt he run the option out of the gun? You mentioned hes already gonna have to 4 wide sets right?
Another question I have for you, if he is basically running two base offenses, wont the O line have to basically learn multiple blocking schemes? Seems overwhelming.

 

[ilovetheoption]

If he wants to stay away from the veer because his kids are apprehensive to play smashmouth, why doesnt he run the option out of the gun? You mentioned hes already gonna have to 4 wide sets right?

Another question I have for you, if he is basically running two base offenses, wont the O line have to basically learn multiple blocking schemes? Seems overwhelming.

They are running option out of the gun. Both read and speed.

And, they're going to have to learn 2 blocking schemes, yeah. Zone (which they already know) and man (which they're learning now). Eventually they're going to be primarily a man blocking scheme, but this is the transition year, so my brother decided to leave some of the old shotgun zone stuff in there that they already know so they'll be able to execute that stuff early in the season.

In the mean time, he's just repping the living hell out of power, counter, dive and lead, so that that can be the meat and potatoes of the running game as the season goes on. Not how I'd have done it, but he's the coach

 

[BuckeyeJacket]

I don't have much to add in terms of X's and O's, but this is interesting and I would love updates on how the season progresses.

 

[Jacket Bracket]

How exciting!! Good luck to your brother. Happy you are back discussing football with us. My coaching advice:

I love your play sets as others have said the blocking will be key. The plays you listed are a good long-term goal. I would focus on about 10 plays that everyone can run correctly. Too many coaches put in a lot of plays that the kids can’t execute right. This turns into a disaster. Identify a few key plays to strong side, weak side, short yardage and pass plays. Slowly add one or two new plays a week. Rep repeatedly until you KNOW they have it down.

Best of luck!

 

[alagold]

My only thought is to use and match the abilities of the guys you have especially in the first yr --to specific sets.. Good passer-pass, good fullback -power I, etc

 

[steebu]

So far:
1) I've asked him to implement a "wings" formation. Like Paul Johnson, but with the Tailback set further back, and the wingbacks are HBack types (realistically, it's the TE and the FB, from when the team is in the I formation). So it's really closer to an Ace/Detroit set with the TE's stepped back. This means we can present 4 verticals at the snap, but can easy shuffle motion to I formation (not arc motion like GT), and it's also really easy to get into I Strong/I Weak and unbalance the line but motioning one of the wings all the way across the formation. It also make it easier to flex guys out into bunch formations, twins, etc.

I think you can still run arc motion with one of the slots to get into Strong/Weak or even basic I with a still-moving Bat/Super back, and you can even do interesting things off of that action. Since it's a balanced formation you don't declare strength until the motion starts. Let's say "Super" is your tag for the left H-Back to go into arc motion to the right and "Bat" is your tag for the right H-Back to arc to the left. In either case they don't arc behind the I-Back, but between the I-Back and the QB, so a much shallower path, almost like a bowed Jet motion.

Now you can run an I-Back Toss to the right by tagging "Super" and get your blocking back already moving. And once the defense starts jumping on that, you just call I-Back Toss to the left by tagging "Super Twirl" (reverse the arc at the snap).

The setup, as you mention, can get you into bunch or other trip formations easily; by adding in the arc motion you could run Stick with the arc'ing Super/Bat back running the stick while X/Z and opposite Super/Bat run fade/out/curl/whatever. The motion can possibly tip your QB to the coverage, a la Run n' Shoot, by seeing how the defense reacts to the motion.

You could even do neat-o things like Matt Canada does where the arc'ing back receives a handoff from the QB at the snap (handoff from jet motion). And of course, a great companion play for that is a triple option! For example, the OL steps left for a zone scheme; the QB opens up to his right and does a one-hand "mesh" with the Bat back who's in Bat motion and reads the backside DE. If the DE follows the zone blocking to the left, the QB pulls and options down the line and pitches off #2. If not, hand it off. The I-Back can take a step left, then begin his pitch path to the right.

Just random thoughts. Because I love arc motion.



Is it northern or southern california?