Hey boys, you guys might enjoy this (you might not)

ilovetheoption

ilovetheoption

Helluva Engineer
Messages
2,816
steebu said:
I think you can still run arc motion with one of the slots to get into Strong/Weak or even basic I with a still-moving Bat/Super back, and you can even do interesting things off of that action. Since it's a balanced formation you don't declare strength until the motion starts. Let's say "Super" is your tag for the left H-Back to go into arc motion to the right and "Bat" is your tag for the right H-Back to arc to the left. In either case they don't arc behind the I-Back, but between the I-Back and the QB, so a much shallower path, almost like a bowed Jet motion.

Now you can run an I-Back Toss to the right by tagging "Super" and get your blocking back already moving. And once the defense starts jumping on that, you just call I-Back Toss to the left by tagging "Super Twirl" (reverse the arc at the snap).

The setup, as you mention, can get you into bunch or other trip formations easily; by adding in the arc motion you could run Stick with the arc'ing Super/Bat back running the stick while X/Z and opposite Super/Bat run fade/out/curl/whatever. The motion can possibly tip your QB to the coverage, a la Run n' Shoot, by seeing how the defense reacts to the motion.

You could even do neat-o things like Matt Canada does where the arc'ing back receives a handoff from the QB at the snap (handoff from jet motion). And of course, a great companion play for that is a triple option! For example, the OL steps left for a zone scheme; the QB opens up to his right and does a one-hand "mesh" with the Bat back who's in Bat motion and reads the backside DE. If the DE follows the zone blocking to the left, the QB pulls and options down the line and pitches off #2. If not, hand it off. The I-Back can take a step left, then begin his pitch path to the right.

Just random thoughts. Because I love arc motion.



Is it northern or southern california? :)
Click to expand...

  1. Southern. LOL, just COULDN'T BE more stereotypical SoCal :)
    • Soooo, yes, you could do all that stuff, and maybe next year.
    • We're probably not going to start installing wings until halfway through the season anyhow. These kids have to learn the I fundamentals, because in the past they were purely a spread gun team that ran inside zone, outside zone, and called QB run off those looks (they didn't even read the backside end for the QB constraint).
    • Right now, they're just repping the living F out of Power, Counter, Lead (ISO), Dive and Toss every day.
    • If they can execute those 4, along with possibly Dive Follow, Dive Option and POSSIBLY Lead Weak and Dive Weak, that's plenty for week one. We're calling PCLDT the "base" running game that MUST be installed and solid for week 1. He feels pretty good about base right now, so I think we're probably pretty good about getting Dive Follow and Dive Option in.
    • For right now, though, it's just I formation, no wings.
    • THAT SAID.....
  2. I'm not as big a fan of arc motion as some folks are
    • The shallow arc motion you're describing is what I have in mind for my shuffle motion. (I'm defining shuffle motion as slide stepping motion where the wing keeps his shoulders parallel to the line of scrimmage, rather than turning and facing the sideline)
    • I see how arc motion could be an advantage on toss, and how maybe how even the head of steam would be an advantage on power (although I think you'd get to the end/edge too quickly in power and goof up the timing)
    • That said, shuffle motion gets you faced in the right direction for Dive/Counter/Lead/Kick/Midline looks, and all the associated plays off of those looks). I feel like asking B or S to be heading laterally and then wrap tight on the QB, get their eyes right, and get on target is asking for bad tracks.
    • I think shuffle motion gives you just as much tip on coverage as arc motion does (or almost as much, anyhow, because you're not threatening fly sweep)
    • So basically you sacrifice a little outside explosiveness for the ability to execute the full suite of I formation running game.
  3. Yes, I get that Matt Canada's stuff is football porn.
    • I'm a HUGE fan of all the dressing up he does to just run basic stuff. Gives the defense a million looks, but the offense has simple, repeatable, predictable, executable assignments.
    • I also thought about that exact triple option action you're describing, and actually you could do it frontside OR as a counter option, where the back wraps around the qb, who reads the BACKSIDE end (you'd have to block the frontside end and take it way wide andoption the next guy (OLB or maybe even the CB). Again though, I've been told no triple option, and Again, I feel like having that fullback in arc motion is asking for a weird/bad mesh/track.
  4. I will say, you are clearly thinking similar to how I'm thinking. This is the stuff I had in mind when I thought about inverting Johnson's system.
 

steebu

Ramblin' Wreck
Messages
625
ilovetheoption said:
  1. Southern. LOL, just COULDN'T BE more stereotypical SoCal :)
    • Soooo, yes, you could do all that stuff, and maybe next year.
    • Right now, they're just repping the living F out of Power, Counter, Lead (ISO), Dive and Toss every day.
Click to expand...

It's funny how you can still be effective doing a few things really well ... and yet the coordinators with the phone book-sized playbooks are the ones who are considered "smart". Even the Air Raid doesn't have 9 million plays ... like you could literally get away with 6 basic concepts and execute well. You already know that, and hopefully your brother knows that, too.

ilovetheoption said:
  • I see how arc motion could be an advantage on toss, and how maybe how even the head of steam would be an advantage on power (although I think you'd get to the end/edge too quickly in power and goof up the timing
Click to expand...

True, I thought about the timing because it can get goofy, but then I though about the 2016 UGA game where CPJ switched up the blocking where the PST arc'd the corner instead of the PSA. So in the same way you have your Super/Bat arc and block the corner on the toss and have your WR crack the playside LB ... but I'm just rambling theory.

ilovetheoption said:
  1. Yes, I get that Matt Canada's stuff is football porn.
    • I'm a HUGE fan of all the dressing up he does to just run basic stuff. Gives the defense a million looks, but the offense has simple, repeatable, predictable, executable assignments.
    • I also thought about that exact triple option action you're describing, and actually you could do it frontside OR as a counter option, where the back wraps around the qb, who reads the BACKSIDE end (you'd have to block the frontside end and take it way wide andoption the next guy (OLB or maybe even the CB). Again though, I've been told no triple option, and Again, I feel like having that fullback in arc motion is asking for a weird/bad mesh/track.
Click to expand...
You know, I'm actually not a huge fan of all that shifting at the collegiate/HS level because you only get so much practice time and it might be harder for kids to pick up. In the pros you've got plenty of time to rep. Canada's LSU teams picked up a bunch of illegal shift penalties, but that actually could get chalked up to inexperience with the system; he did get the boot after just 1 season, after all. I definitely think it can give you an advantage; it's literally the offense's version of the DL stemming and changing up looks to confuse an OL pre-snap. I would wonder how well all of that would work at the HS level.

ilovetheoption said:
  1. I will say, you are clearly thinking similar to how I'm thinking. This is the stuff I had in mind when I thought about inverting Johnson's system.
Click to expand...

Great minds think alike!

Stay bright and gay - and hope you guys do well!
 
AE 87

AE 87

Helluva Engineer
Messages
13,026
steebu said:
It's funny how you can still be effective doing a few things really well ... and yet the coordinators with the phone book-sized playbooks are the ones who are considered "smart". Even the Air Raid doesn't have 9 million plays ... like you could literally get away with 6 basic concepts and execute well. You already know that, and hopefully your brother knows that, too.



True, I thought about the timing because it can get goofy, but then I though about the 2016 UGA game where CPJ switched up the blocking where the PST arc'd the corner instead of the PSA. So in the same way you have your Super/Bat arc and block the corner on the toss and have your WR crack the playside LB ... but I'm just rambling theory.


You know, I'm actually not a huge fan of all that shifting at the collegiate/HS level because you only get so much practice time and it might be harder for kids to pick up. In the pros you've got plenty of time to rep. Canada's LSU teams picked up a bunch of illegal shift penalties, but that actually could get chalked up to inexperience with the system; he did get the boot after just 1 season, after all. I definitely think it can give you an advantage; it's literally the offense's version of the DL stemming and changing up looks to confuse an OL pre-snap. I would wonder how well all of that would work at the HS level.



Great minds think alike!

Stay bright and gay - and hope you guys do well!
Click to expand...

I think that last line just means, "Have a Zima;" amirite?
 
Techster

Techster

Helluva Engineer
Messages
18,235
I hear there's a coach named Paul Johnson that needs something to do. Your brother may want to give him a call about coaching up the running game. I hear that Paul Johnson guy has a pretty decent running attack...
 
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