Here's a thought

[Pointer]

Nah, salemsmanship and finding the right AD that was gullible enough did.

Brian VanGorder also coached at the P5 level

 

[GT_05]

What? The reason Tennessee or Georgia Tech for that matter hasn’t touched Bama in years is because Saban has the best (Kirby on his heels) money laundering scheme under that system. That’s why Saban is whining about NIL. He has just lost one of his best advantages and that was under the table payment schemes. We are in a transition period right now with NIL but once it settles out schools like Tennessee will be able to pay just like Bama has and magically Bama’s days of running roughshod will be over.

And you say those matchups aren’t interesting. That’s your opinion. But I think they are more compelling than watching Bama beat someone by 40 with nothing on the line. Once each tier has their playoff system in place those games will matter for playoff position just like 8-6 vs. 7-7 matchups do in late season NFL games. Basically, instead of these systems being bogus with undefeated teams like we see now, both tiers will be like the Coastal Division has been forever - parity where every game counts. That’s the entire point. The money guys are tired of spending money on worthless games we see 80% of the time in todays college football scheduling. Like you said who wants to watch a paid for Bama team beat a not paid for Tennessee team. Now that they all get to pay without penalty it’s going to be way more interesting. What we’ve seen the last few years were paid for Bama, Georgia, Ohio St, Oklahoma make a mockery of college football.

I look forward to the day of a tier 1 of paid for NIL teams who play competitive games with each other where the playoff champ has 3-4 losses. And I look forward to watching GT play in tier 2 where we have competitive games where our champ has 3-4 losses. Heck, the most fun college football the past decade has been watching the Coastal where every team has been in the hunt until November. Right now we know before the season starts that Bama wins the west, UGA wins the east, Ohio State Wins the BIG and Clemson wins the ACC. Ratings are falling because the outcomes are pre-determined due to their buying of recruits. If this system stays I look forward to USC and others knocking Bama and UGA off the payment perch.

I can see your logic for wanting two tiers but I think I’d rather continue the good fight against the factories than try to be the “best of the rest”.

A few stats that I just compiled in support of your argument (assuming Wikipedia and my math are correct):

1). We haven’t entered a game ranked in the top 25 since 2015. Awful.

2). Since the beginning of the 1991 season, we’ve entered games ranked in the top 25 only about 26% of the time. Pretty mediocre.

3) O’Leary, Gailey, and Johnson entered games ranked in the top 25 approximately 37%, 31%, and 25%, respectively. Not great.

4) O’Leary, Gailey, and Johnson had winning percentages of approximately 61%, 58%, and 57%, respectively, Meh.

 

[slugboy]

We hired a good recruiter who can’t coach his way out of a wet paper bag! Not a recipe for success.

It amazed me for George O'Leary's entire coaching era that 1. he had been a great defensive coordinator and 2. his defenses as a head coach were pretty bad. So far, Collins has fallen into the same trap, but with a much MUCH less effective defense than O'Leary had and without a top-tier offense to bail him out.

Usually, when a good DC becomes a head coach, he still has a good defense. But not always.

I've heard Collins talk defense, and when he does he talks competently about it.

Now, if you mean that he's underachieving as a HEAD coach, that I understand. Collins seems to have known what he was doing as a DC, though.

 

[SOWEGA Jacket]

I can see your logic for wanting two tiers but I think I’d rather continue the good fight against the factories than try to be the “best of the rest”.

A few stats that I just compiled in support of your argument (assuming Wikipedia and my math are correct):

1). We haven’t entered a game ranked in the top 25 since 2015. Awful.

2). Since the beginning of the 1991 season, we’ve entered games ranked in the top 25 only about 26% of the time. Pretty mediocre.

3) O’Leary, Gailey, and Johnson entered games ranked in the top 25 approximately 37%, 31%, and 25%, respectively. Not great.

4) O’Leary, Gailey, and Johnson had winning percentages of approximately 61%, 58%, and 57%, respectively, Meh.

I totally want to be in tier 1 but unfortunately our school has shown they do not want to do what it takes to be competitive. I’ve been screaming for years we should buy players under the table and give them grades. Out of the thousands of students at GT we can afford to hide 35-45 morons who can run, catch, and tackle. It won’t hurt the academic reputation but would enhance the school profile with a top 25 team.

And what is this “continue the good fight with factories”? We aren’t fighting. We are getting b****slapped by bought and paid for players. By whose definition is this a “good fight”? Maybe it was in the 80’s, but after our Natty it’s been an arms race to buy players and avoid NCAA detection. It’s no longer a good fight. It’s a mismatched drubbing that is not appealing to fans, TV, or the players. Now, Coastal games are fun parity driven games where the outcome comes down to play at the end like sports should be. What college football has turned into is pro teams playing amateurs. The Dream Team was fun to watch for a few weeks as they smoked everyone. But watching it every game is unappealing. That is where 70% of P5 teams are right now. They and their fans know they have no chance before the season starts. Sure, you can wish and believe your team can win the conference but the reality is unless you buy players you won’t. This coming season will be just as boring as the past 20 years because we already know 3 of the 4 playoff teams so really this entire season comes down to who will join Bama, UGA, and Ohio State in the playoff. That’s not fun.

 

[WreckinGT]

What? The reason Tennessee or Georgia Tech for that matter hasn’t touched Bama in years is because Saban has the best (Kirby on his heels) money laundering scheme under that system. That’s why Saban is whining about NIL. He has just lost one of his best advantages and that was under the table payment schemes. We are in a transition period right now with NIL but once it settles out schools like Tennessee will be able to pay just like Bama has and magically Bama’s days of running roughshod will be over.

And you say those matchups aren’t interesting. That’s your opinion. But I think they are more compelling than watching Bama beat someone by 40 with nothing on the line. Once each tier has their playoff system in place those games will matter for playoff position just like 8-6 vs. 7-7 matchups do in late season NFL games. Basically, instead of these systems being bogus with undefeated teams like we see now, both tiers will be like the Coastal Division has been forever - parity where every game counts. That’s the entire point. The money guys are tired of spending money on worthless games we see 80% of the time in todays college football scheduling. Like you said who wants to watch a paid for Bama team beat a not paid for Tennessee team. Now that they all get to pay without penalty it’s going to be way more interesting. What we’ve seen the last few years were paid for Bama, Georgia, Ohio St, Oklahoma make a mockery of college football.

I look forward to the day of a tier 1 of paid for NIL teams who play competitive games with each other where the playoff champ has 3-4 losses. And I look forward to watching GT play in tier 2 where we have competitive games where our champ has 3-4 losses. Heck, the most fun college football the past decade has been watching the Coastal where every team has been in the hunt until November. Right now we know before the season starts that Bama wins the west, UGA wins the east, Ohio State Wins the BIG and Clemson wins the ACC. Ratings are falling because the outcomes are pre-determined due to their buying of recruits. If this system stays I look forward to USC and others knocking Bama and UGA off the payment perch.

Alabama was the only team in the country who knew how to pay under the table and that was the only reason for all of their success? Ok.

 

[Tennessee GT Fan]

Alabama was the only team in the country who knew how to pay under the table and that was the only reason for all of their success? Ok.

There's an old SEC saying "If you aint cheatin you aint tryin"

 

[WreckinGT]

There's an old SEC saying "If you aint cheatin you aint tryin"

They are all cheating. Claiming that Bama is the ultimate cheater and that is why they built a dynasty doesn't pass the smell test. If buying players is all that matters, A&M and Texas will be the two best teams in the country soon and it won't be all that close.

 

[Tennessee GT Fan]

They are all cheating. Claiming that Bama is the ultimate cheater and that is why they built a dynasty doesn't pass the smell test. If buying players is all that matters, A&M and Texas will be the two best teams in the country soon and it won't be all that close.

Tennessee is still under "investigation" by the NCAA but at this point i don't think they will do anything since they supposidly "Self reported and self reduced schollies for a season". The NCAA has no power anymore and nobody is scared of them anymore.

 

[SOWEGA Jacket]

I never said Bama was the only team buying players. I said Bama under Saban has built the best money laundering scheme. Huge difference. Other teams buy players but they either get caught or do it so haphazardly that they don’t get the on field benefit from it, ala Texas. Look at Auburn. They buy players thru Yellawood yet where is the consistency in their process? They caught it with Cam and Fairley but their system failed and Gus was fired. Saban and now Kirby not only launder in a way to avoid detection but also to get the right players. Oklahoma has done a good job of it as well and now magically USC will jump in.

It‘s all corrupt and has been which is why those of you who hate NIL I just don’t understand. All NIL has done is shown a light on what was happening and now gives other teams a chance to buy players without being put on probation for a decade. That’s the other side with Bama. They are squeaky clean because the NCAA doesn’t look at them yet we lose a title because of something minor. I’ll tell you this, Dabo is being very quiet right now but Clemson will be back in a big way real soon because you know they are IPTAYing some NIL right now. Guaranteed that one of UGA’s 5 star QB’s end up with Dabo after this season. And he’ll be buying everything in sight.

 

[kalld12]

Yawn. We have NO CHANCE to recruit top athletes to Tech. We might get some via the portal who are unhappy playing at their original pledge, but Tech today is not a desirable destination. Why would it be? We place relatively few players into the pros each year (by comparison) and we have won 3 games each of the last three years. Good luck selling that vision.

Funny enough ... we've come full circle. This was the same debate when CPJ was hired ... Can we recruit? No ... so let's get an X's and O guy. So now we are saying, "we can recruit!" I doubt it. We might find a player or two, but it is a different world today. Tech was in real trouble in 1980. I was there. We are in worse shape today, IMO. The game is moving faster than we can respond.

Chan Gailey enters the chat, there was once a time we had players getting drafted in the 1st 4 rounds almost every year. Not much anymore. You and many other posters on this board have settled for "below average" and every one of your posts pushes that narrative that we should give up on drawing big talent (idc who you are, you never stop trying, that's weak AF), but reality is we have about a 1% shot every year at landing a big fish (5 star), and our focus needs to be drawing 4 stars and mid to high 3 stars in which we can develop (with the right coach). Yes, scheme can provide you with advantages in certain aspects of the game, but it doesn't make up enough to contend for Nattys. Like Jacket137 referenced above, we will never compete for Nattys when teams like Bama, Clemson, Ohio State are stacked with loads of NFL talent year in and year out. Scheme, which we saw with CPJ and the triple option can overcome talent deficits against greats teams (UGA - TWICE - THWG), but it struggled where teams had tremendous speed in their Linebacker core, and some big nasties up front. At least with the option, we knew we had a dog in the fight to win almost every game. Now, back to CGC. Coach is coaching for his career this year, i dont think anyone can argue the talent level on the roster is higher than CPJs teams, but we haven't even scratched the surface of the amount of success CPJ had here.

We HAVE to continue to try and draw top talent both in HS recruiting and the Transfer Portal if as a tech fanbase we want to return to a level of greatness we once knew. Alot has changed since 1960, things said back then are almost completely irrelevant to the college football landscape we know today. Coach CGC needs to focus on developing the talent on the roster today and learn how to be "game manager" on Saturdays. His job is to also get the team to "buy in" and build "great chemistry" if he wants the team to ball out and execute on Saturdays. Last year he lost the locker room and it was obvious mid-way through season.

Anyways, enough of my ranting. Point is, talent alone, or scheme alone, wont get us to the promise land. We must continue to reinvent ourselves and find ways to make Tech a "attractive destination" for top talent. I think CGC has showed us its def possible to recruit Top 25 (as did Chan), but on the field success must be there to sustain that kind of recruiting. I will NOT settle for mediocrity for Tech Football, thats not what we were when my father started taking me to games and I was watching Joe Hamilton, Dez White, Kelly Campbell, Philip Wheeler..and the list goes on.

Have a blessed day all! I don't know about yall but the 2022 season cant come fast enough! Go JACKETS

 

[4shotB]

. Last year he lost the locker room and it was obvious mid-way through season.

Thanks for the well written post. You made some excellent points. However, I would argue a bit on the point I have quoted. We were competitive in most every game until the last twur team may have waved the white flag a bit in those. But I could not fault the team effort in the games prior and effort is a barometer of what you describe. When the team quit on Bill Lewis it was obvious to most if not all in the stands in the pre-message board days.

 

[Tennessee GT Fan]

Chan Gailey enters the chat, there was once a time we had players getting drafted in the 1st 4 rounds almost every year. Not much anymore. You and many other posters on this board have settled for "below average" and every one of your posts pushes that narrative that we should give up on drawing big talent (idc who you are, you never stop trying, that's weak AF), but reality is we have about a 1% shot every year at landing a big fish (5 star), and our focus needs to be drawing 4 stars and mid to high 3 stars in which we can develop (with the right coach). Yes, scheme can provide you with advantages in certain aspects of the game, but it doesn't make up enough to contend for Nattys. Like Jacket137 referenced above, we will never compete for Nattys when teams like Bama, Clemson, Ohio State are stacked with loads of NFL talent year in and year out. Scheme, which we saw with CPJ and the triple option can overcome talent deficits against greats teams (UGA - TWICE - THWG), but it struggled where teams had tremendous speed in their Linebacker core, and some big nasties up front. At least with the option, we knew we had a dog in the fight to win almost every game. Now, back to CGC. Coach is coaching for his career this year, i dont think anyone can argue the talent level on the roster is higher than CPJs teams, but we haven't even scratched the surface of the amount of success CPJ had here.

We HAVE to continue to try and draw top talent both in HS recruiting and the Transfer Portal if as a tech fanbase we want to return to a level of greatness we once knew. Alot has changed since 1960, things said back then are almost completely irrelevant to the college football landscape we know today. Coach CGC needs to focus on developing the talent on the roster today and learn how to be "game manager" on Saturdays. His job is to also get the team to "buy in" and build "great chemistry" if he wants the team to ball out and execute on Saturdays. Last year he lost the locker room and it was obvious mid-way through season.

Anyways, enough of my ranting. Point is, talent alone, or scheme alone, wont get us to the promise land. We must continue to reinvent ourselves and find ways to make Tech a "attractive destination" for top talent. I think CGC has showed us its def possible to recruit Top 25 (as did Chan), but on the field success must be there to sustain that kind of recruiting. I will NOT settle for mediocrity for Tech Football, thats not what we were when my father started taking me to games and I was watching Joe Hamilton, Dez White, Kelly Campbell, Philip Wheeler..and the list goes on.

Have a blessed day all! I don't know about yall but the 2022 season cant come fast enough! Go JACKETS

I'm so ready for some football the dark period from January-August is so boring

 

[kalld12]

Thanks for the well written post. You made some excellent points. However, I would argue a bit on the point I have quoted. We were competitive in most every game until the last twur team may have waved the white flag a bit in those. But I could not fault the team effort in the games prior and effort is a barometer of what you describe. When the team quit on Bill Lewis it was obvious to most if not all in the stands in the pre-message board days.

Fair point, there were just things (ex. Secondary communication) I saw that were troubling and made me think coach had lost the locker room. You're correct however that in a lot of games we were competitive and the effort was there, but the defense just caused me so much agst with the lack of execution and assignment football. I'm excited for a fresh start and I hope to get back to assignment football and cleaner execution.

 

[orientalnc]

Fair point, there were just things (ex. Secondary communication) I saw that were troubling and made me think coach had lost the locker room. You're correct however that in a lot of games we were competitive and the effort was there, but the defense just caused me so much agst with the lack of execution and assignment football. I'm excited for a fresh start and I hope to get back to assignment football and cleaner execution.

The defensive backfield was our prime shortcoming on defense. It did not begin with ND. But, by then I think everyon knew something was terribly wrong on that side of the ball. We had too much DB talent to be getting beat so frequently down the middle.

 

[RamblinRed]

I would gladly be in tier 2, simply because even if we start buying players we would never be able to afford enough to play with the Tier 1 schools. That is why they will be the schools in tier 1.

Keep in mind it is not about the school funding for athletics. It is about the fan base funding for athletics. All the NIL money is coming from fans not the schools (schools are not allowed to have NIL's).
GT's fanbase is simply too small to compete with the bigger schools. Fans may not like hearing that but it is the simple truth.
Every school in a given conference gets the same amount of TV money as every other school in that conference. The difference is how much money does their AA get from their fans. That is the big differentiator between the schools.

In the playoff period the only schools that have had more than 1 playoff bid are - AL, UGA, OK, Clemson, and ND. That's it. In the NIL era there will be a few others that are likely to join that group because they will spend to get there, but frankly there are only so many schools where the fanbase support is enough to put them in that tier.

We could pay players but we still wouldn't be competitive in tier 1 because we would be unable to pay enough players to keep up.

GT hasn't been a major player in college football since the early 60's (before I was born). I'm not naive enough to think that will change or is even possible to change now.

Let the 20 or so schools that have the massive funding necessary to play in that tier 1 play in tier 1. Then let other schools that can compete financially more evenly with each other compete.
It is likely to be more enjoyable for the majority of college football fans than the current setup.

 

[SOWEGA Jacket]

Keep in mind it is not about the school funding for athletics. It is about the fan base funding for athletics. All the NIL money is coming from fans not the schools (schools are not allowed to have NIL's).

Red, I know we basically agree on this stuff. But just for argument sakes, the above is based on something long gone from college athletics and that’s honesty. That’s where I disagree with just about everyone here because I no longer believe anything in this system is honest and I don’t trust anything. I know others still believe we “can fight the good fight”. The reality is there is no fight it’s all non illegal fraud since the NCAA has no legal authority to put anyone in jail.

To say schools are not allowed to have NIL’s I ask the simple question - who would investigate and enforce that? You telling me that if Bama or UGA wanted to dip into a billion dollar endowment to pull a few million over a five year period to gain top 5 finishes that some entity would investigate that and punish them? Who? NCAA? IRS? FBI? Now, of course they would not admit it and would have to “funnel” the money from A to B to avoid the NCAA but they’ve been doing it forever and it’s easily done. You have any idea how many bogus endowments/scholarships exist out there? And this stuff isn’t even illegal. GT could easily borrow from the endowment to buy us back into relevance and pay it back with the excess money that comes from being relevant. But of course we won’t. But to believe that NIL money will only be coming from fans is just comical. NIL is not being funded by Grandma giving $10 a month. Maybe at GT but not at the big boys.

 

[Ibeeballin]

I would gladly be in tier 2, simply because even if we start buying players we would never be able to afford enough to play with the Tier 1 schools. That is why they will be the schools in tier 1.

Keep in mind it is not about the school funding for athletics. It is about the fan base funding for athletics. All the NIL money is coming from fans not the schools (schools are not allowed to have NIL's).
GT's fanbase is simply too small to compete with the bigger schools. Fans may not like hearing that but it is the simple truth.
Every school in a given conference gets the same amount of TV money as every other school in that conference. The difference is how much money does their AA get from their fans. That is the big differentiator between the schools.

In the playoff period the only schools that have had more than 1 playoff bid are - AL, UGA, OK, Clemson, and ND. That's it. In the NIL era there will be a few others that are likely to join that group because they will spend to get there, but frankly there are only so many schools where the fanbase support is enough to put them in that tier.

We could pay players but we still wouldn't be competitive in tier 1 because we would be unable to pay enough players to keep up.

GT hasn't been a major player in college football since the early 60's (before I was born). I'm not naive enough to think that will change or is even possible to change now.

Let the 20 or so schools that have the massive funding necessary to play in that tier 1 play in tier 1. Then let other schools that can compete financially more evenly with each other compete.
It is likely to be more enjoyable for the majority of college football fans than the current setup.

Who are the tier 1 schools?

 

[JacketFan137]

Chan Gailey enters the chat, there was once a time we had players getting drafted in the 1st 4 rounds almost every year. Not much anymore. You and many other posters on this board have settled for "below average" and every one of your posts pushes that narrative that we should give up on drawing big talent (idc who you are, you never stop trying, that's weak AF), but reality is we have about a 1% shot every year at landing a big fish (5 star), and our focus needs to be drawing 4 stars and mid to high 3 stars in which we can develop (with the right coach). Yes, scheme can provide you with advantages in certain aspects of the game, but it doesn't make up enough to contend for Nattys. Like Jacket137 referenced above, we will never compete for Nattys when teams like Bama, Clemson, Ohio State are stacked with loads of NFL talent year in and year out. Scheme, which we saw with CPJ and the triple option can overcome talent deficits against greats teams (UGA - TWICE - THWG), but it struggled where teams had tremendous speed in their Linebacker core, and some big nasties up front. At least with the option, we knew we had a dog in the fight to win almost every game. Now, back to CGC. Coach is coaching for his career this year, i dont think anyone can argue the talent level on the roster is higher than CPJs teams, but we haven't even scratched the surface of the amount of success CPJ had here.

We HAVE to continue to try and draw top talent both in HS recruiting and the Transfer Portal if as a tech fanbase we want to return to a level of greatness we once knew. Alot has changed since 1960, things said back then are almost completely irrelevant to the college football landscape we know today. Coach CGC needs to focus on developing the talent on the roster today and learn how to be "game manager" on Saturdays. His job is to also get the team to "buy in" and build "great chemistry" if he wants the team to ball out and execute on Saturdays. Last year he lost the locker room and it was obvious mid-way through season.

Anyways, enough of my ranting. Point is, talent alone, or scheme alone, wont get us to the promise land. We must continue to reinvent ourselves and find ways to make Tech a "attractive destination" for top talent. I think CGC has showed us its def possible to recruit Top 25 (as did Chan), but on the field success must be there to sustain that kind of recruiting. I will NOT settle for mediocrity for Tech Football, thats not what we were when my father started taking me to games and I was watching Joe Hamilton, Dez White, Kelly Campbell, Philip Wheeler..and the list goes on.

Have a blessed day all! I don't know about yall but the 2022 season cant come fast enough! Go JACKETS

thank you for being rational. the same people that would tell the users here that we are “settling for mediocrity with collins” are the same ones continually saying to settle for mediocre recruits. NIL won’t allow us to get top top guys (we all know this) but there’s still hundreds of 4* and high 3* recruits. it is likely a much quicker path to playing time here and there IS a lot our program can offer (fun city, great education/career opportunities, playing uga, clemson, notre dame and other big games regularly). there’s no reason a coach can’t recruit in the top 25-30 we literally did that we just have to start winning and that may be more consistent.

recruiting is coaching. i’m not sure why there is such a disconnect there when people act like it must be scheme or recruiting and not both.

 

[first&ten]

I think in this scenario he stays and gets another chance (and the buyout is one year less if he doesn't make a significant jump in 2023). ADTS said we needed to "look like we belong" this year, although he said the same before the 2021 season...

If Im betting I still say ADTS is the first to go.

No way Tstan is going to be fired. If GC only wins 5 this season he will be let go by TS just to satisfy the few money boosters we have left. Long will take over. Stansbury is the only anchor Tech has right now with somewhat of a plan. If by some strange action he leaves that will be the collapse of the GTAA.

 

[WreckinGT]

No way Tstan is going to be fired. If GC only wins 5 this season he will be let go by TS just to satisfy the few money boosters we have left. Long will take over. Stansbury is the only anchor Tech has right now with somewhat of a plan. If by some strange action he leaves that will be the collapse of the GTAA.

Not really sure about that. When prominent donors publicly say:

“I think the fact that Todd has linked his career at Georgia Tech to Geoff’s success – and I think that’s really important to know that he did that – is a positive because certainly it indicates that the administration is all in with this working and willing to accept the consequences if it doesn’t,” Garrett said.

It sure sounds like Geoff going down means Todd is going as well.