Here is our problem on the Swarm

[stech81]

It started a few years ago , 50% were ok with things ( Head coach) 25% thought CPJ was the best we could do, and the other 25% want him gone. The ones who wanted CPJ explain why , he did things right , we had some good seasons with him, he could beat uga , and he did what the school wanted by graduating players, and I love to watch our death marches.

The other 25% percent that wanted him gone had their reasons , he could not recruit , no player wanted to play in our offense. He would not take the blame if we lost a game, we have no passing game , and we are boring to watch.

It started getting bad in 2015 after a bad season then we calmed down in 2016 cause we finished 9-4 but it started back in 2017 not to end.

Most of the people were civil be a few were not ( we know which ones) they would say things that pissed off those who love CPJ to the highest point of pisstivity .

By 2018 some of us could see something was not right with CPJ just didn't seem to be the same.

Now we hired a new coach and a few think he will lead us to the promise land and a few think he talks to much like a salesman and needs to show he can coach. But we all hope this will work out for the best for Tech time will tell. The few who wanted CPJ to stay want is see us improve but not take over 3 or 4 years ( Which I guess I'm one) . A few ss no reason not to wait for 5 years cause it will take time.

Now here is the problem the few that would talk bad about CPJ keep it up till they pissed off a few that wanted him to go. The funny part now the ones who wanted CPJ to stay are pissing off the ones who wanted CPJ to go . The rest of us just want it to stop and talk about football , uniforms and school colors and see if we can make supersizethatorder-mutt mad cause they like blue.

This message has been brought to you from Bud Light and drink up. We all want to see Tech do good . ( Now I have pissed some of you off but I fine with that )

 

[Deleted member 2897]

It started a few years ago , 50% were ok with things ( Head coach) 25% thought CPJ was the best we could do, and the other 25% want him gone. The ones who wanted CPJ explain why , he did things right , we had some good seasons with him, he could beat uga , and he did what the school wanted by graduating players, and I love to watch our death marches.

The other 25% percent that wanted him gone had their reasons , he could not recruit , no player wanted to play in our offense. He would not take the blame if we lost a game, we have no passing game , and we are boring to watch.

It started getting bad in 2015 after a bad season then we calmed down in 2016 cause we finished 9-4 but it started back in 2017 not to end.

Most of the people were civil be a few were not ( we know which ones) they would say things that pissed off those who love CPJ to the highest point of pisstivity .

By 2018 some of us could see something was not right with CPJ just didn't seem to be the same.

Now we hired a new coach and a few think he will lead us to the promise land and a few think he talks to much like a salesman and needs to show he can coach. But we all hope this will work out for the best for Tech time will tell. The few who wanted CPJ to stay want is see us improve but not take over 3 or 4 years ( Which I guess I'm one) . A few ss no reason not to wait for 5 years cause it will take time.

Now here is the problem the few that would talk bad about CPJ keep it up till they pissed off a few that wanted him to go. The funny part now the ones who wanted CPJ to stay are pissing off the ones who wanted CPJ to go . The rest of us just want it to stop and talk about football , uniforms and school colors and see if we can make supersizethatorder-mutt mad cause they like blue.

This message has been brought to you from Bud Light and drink up. We all want to see Tech do good . ( Now I have pissed some of you off but I fine with that )

No coach is beyond second guessing and criticism. But yes, we should be behind our team 100% and let our guys have time and runway. We also do need to keep things in perspective. We don't have the money that schools like FSU have where they can fire people every few years and spend $10m-$20m on a coaching carrousel. I think what you've seen is not unusual to other teams though. Look at Ed Orgeron and before him Les Miles. LSU has to play Alabama, Auburn, Mississippi State, Ole Miss and Texas A&M every year. At least 3 of those 5 teams are highly ranked every year...sometimes 4 or 5 of those teams are ranked. Les Miles averaged about 10 wins per year for well over a decade, but look at what happened to him. The man never had a single sub 8-win year. And they were about to run Ed out of town too despite the fact they won 8 his first year, 9 the next year, 10 last year, and already have 9 wins this year.

What I'm getting at is that I'm not trying to say anybody should be fine with mediocrity or to set your expectations too low. But at the same time, every team can't win 12-14 games. And there are always costs to turning over the coaching staff (both in recruiting, continuity, experience, money). Its not just getting rid of someone, there's always a risk of who you're going to hire next. A lot of folks like Will Muschamp say hello.

 

[AlabamaBuzz]

I believe there are extremes on both sides, and I will continue to say that I believe (on the O side of the ball) we did not "maximize" our performance this year because we were too concerned initially with "changing the offense" and less concerned with this year's results. I am also tired of hearing the "monumental transition" words come out of CGC's mouth. With that said, he really has had a difficult situation with our O line depletion.

I did like what he said after our loss this weekend much, much more. I liked that he spoke with players on the sideline when they made mistakes (not so much berating them, but coaching). It is not "negative" to say the truth. The truth needs to be spoken sometimes.

Now, in regards to future results, I think what is "reasonable" with some very, very good coaching next year is to win 6+ games. I think that by 2021, we should expect 8-10 wins. I will be surprised, assuming this comes to pass, if we can beat UGAG anytime in the near future - the talent gap is gargantuan, and we are running a "vanilla" offense that I don't think can score against a D like theirs. I hope to be wrong here.

I think CGC, if everything goes as well as it can go for GT, can get us about where CCG got us, and most likely no further. Even if he recruits to a top 30 level each year, this is not enough really to get us to top 10 in today's big boy college football environment. One reason I supported CPJ so much was because I believed his system provided us a chance at a "lightning in a bottle" scenario. I don't think without some tactical advantage, this "lightning in a bottle" is possible. I will admit that because of PJ's lack of ability to recruit big time D players (or even above average D players consistently), I became aware that my "lightning in the bottle" probably would never happen, and I believe PJ knew that as well.

If there is not evident improvement in the team by 2021, I think CGC will be squarely in the hot seat. If he starts next season off 2-7, it might happen sooner than 2021. He is my team's coach, so I am rooting for him.

 

[chriscarter]

The problem is we have some whining fans. We do not have the size or positional structure to accomplish what CGC wants. Going to take at least 2 more seasons to get his type of players in place.

 

[Vespidae]

I take joy in watching Tennessee steadily improve under Pruitt. Many of the naysayers have gone dark and it’s clear his players and his system are making progress. I hope the same happens to Tech.

I am reminded of Kim King’s comments. He said the likelihood of Tech ever competing for a Natty was about zero. But, he thought we could be a Top 30 team, which these days is about 8-4. If CGC can deliver 7-8 wins consistently... while increasing the stature of the program to relevancy, I’ll be very happy.

 

[GoldZ]

Imo, what's missing in most of these debates are the metrics by which we decide if we have the right staff. Again imo, CPJ and his TO had exceeded their spoil date, however, even the haters have to realize that Orange Bowls, ACC Championship, beating ugag 3 times in Athens while undermanned, very impressive graduation rates, and low Fulmer Trophy ratings, are going to be hard to match (IF they are honest with themselves). Hard but doable.

Come mid-season 2021, the current staff would have had 3 Spring training camps, 3 Fall camps, and 30-31 games and CGC will be in his 5th year as a HC. We will be an upperclass dominated team as our current FR & SO players will be JRs & SRs, and according to CGC our FR & many SO players will be Elite players. Plus our QB will likely be a R-JR or R-SO.

CFB is a bottom line biz without a lot of patience, and yes, even under these circumstances. It doesn't take 5 years to know if you are clearly on the right track.
Imo, we should be playing at that point like a 8 win team, so the second half of 2021 should be impressive, and let's say finish with 7 wins and go on to winning say 9 in 2022--by then the grad rates and Fulmer stuff should be clear too.

Back to the hard but doable-- to have our current kids with all the many challenges they are facing, play with as much effort and as much heart as they are, is very impressive. This combined with an elite class in 2021 would portend happy times on the Flats. This is clearly based on the staff maturing and the recruiting materializing at the promised level. This upcoming class minus the highly rated (in high school) transfers who didn't garner much PT where they enrolled, is a lot like CPJ's last class. The 2021 class has to be truly elite. This should be one metric, but a big one. The playing level mid-season 2021 should be another. The grad rates and Fulmer stuff has to be considered too, or we will have become just another sec thug.
Z

 

[GTRX7]

The problem is we have some whining fans. We do not have the size or positional structure to accomplish what CGC wants. Going to take at least 2 more seasons to get his type of players in place.

Yeah, okay. But, at the same time, we have some over-apologists. Two things can be true. While it is true that we do not have the talent we need to compete at high levels with this offense (in part due to past recruiting and in part due to injuries), it should now be clear that it is also true that we do have enough talent that we should have easily beaten the Citadel and to have at least been competitive with Temple and in the first half of some other games. It is a case of both not having enough talent for what we want to do and also not maximizing the talent we do have.

ALL THAT SAID, once we decided to full-time switch to Graham and actually develop some offensive identity and consistency, I believe that we have seen improvement. That is all I hoped for once we were 1-3. It seems that Key is doing a great job with what we have on the O-line and I think the defense generally is as well. I am optimistic that this staff can succeed here. I think CGC will take some lumps as a relatively new coach still learning on the job. But it is clear he wants to be here, is doing everything he can to recruit, and we are now seeing signs of optimism in the scheme department. We should steadily improve each season.

GO JACKETS!

 

[Vespidae]

Imo, what's missing in most of these debates are the metrics by which we decide if we have the right staff. Again imo, CPJ and his TO had exceeded their spoil date, however, even the haters have to realize that Orange Bowls, ACC Championship, beating ugag 3 times in Athens while undermanned, very impressive graduation rates, and low Fulmer Trophy ratings, are going to be hard to match (IF they are honest with themselves). Hard but doable.

Come mid-season 2021, the current staff would have had 3 Spring training camps, 3 Fall camps, and 30-31 games and CGC will be in his 5th year as a HC. We will be an upperclass dominated team as our current FR & SO players will be JRs & SRs, and according to CGC our FR & many SO players will be Elite players. Plus our QB will likely be a R-JR or R-SO.

CFB is a bottom line biz without a lot of patience, and yes, even under these circumstances. It doesn't take 5 years to know if you are clearly on the right track.
Imo, we should be playing at that point like a 8 win team, so the second half of 2021 should be impressive, and let's say finish with 7 wins and go on to winning say 9 in 2022--by then the grad rates and Fulmer stuff should be clear too.

Back to the hard but doable-- to have our current kids with all the many challenges they are facing, play with as much effort and as much heart as they are, is very impressive. This combined with an elite class in 2021 would portend happy times on the Flats. This is clearly based on the staff maturing and the recruiting materializing at the promised level. This upcoming class minus the highly rated (in high school) transfers who didn't garner much PT where they enrolled, is a lot like CPJ's last class. The 2021 class has to be truly elite. This should be one metric, but a big one. The playing level mid-season 2021 should be another. The grad rates and Fulmer stuff has to be considered too, or we will have become just another sec thug.
Z

I love this. If TStan wanted to win me over, he’d publish a scorecard. When I was a corporate executive, my scorecard was posted outside my office and anybody could walk by and see how I was doing.

Lagging indicators: W-L, APR,
Leading indicators: Recruiting rank, Injuries, Tutor Hours

Let’s develop one. Five metrics.

 

[JorgeJonas]

The real issue is that we don’t have consensus agreement on what the expectations should be. Are we supposed to compete with the best, or do we accept that that’s almost impossible and then apply lower expectations accordingly? Unless or until we have a broad consensus about what we should be (and what we are), we will continue to argue about everything. Plus it’s the internet, and arguing is what it was built for.

 

[Vespidae]

The real issue is that we don’t have consensus agreement on what the expectations should be. Are we supposed to compete with the best, or do we accept that that’s almost impossible and then apply lower expectations accordingly? Unless or until we have a broad consensus about what we should be (and what we are), we will continue to argue about everything. Plus it’s the internet, and arguing is what it was built for.

I say Top 30. The GTAA Strategic Plan says “Championships” ... which I take to mean Conference Championships.

 

[Jmonty71]

It started a few years ago , 50% were ok with things ( Head coach) 25% thought CPJ was the best we could do, and the other 25% want him gone. The ones who wanted CPJ explain why , he did things right , we had some good seasons with him, he could beat uga , and he did what the school wanted by graduating players, and I love to watch our death marches.

The other 25% percent that wanted him gone had their reasons , he could not recruit , no player wanted to play in our offense. He would not take the blame if we lost a game, we have no passing game , and we are boring to watch.

It started getting bad in 2015 after a bad season then we calmed down in 2016 cause we finished 9-4 but it started back in 2017 not to end.

Most of the people were civil be a few were not ( we know which ones) they would say things that pissed off those who love CPJ to the highest point of pisstivity .

By 2018 some of us could see something was not right with CPJ just didn't seem to be the same.

Now we hired a new coach and a few think he will lead us to the promise land and a few think he talks to much like a salesman and needs to show he can coach. But we all hope this will work out for the best for Tech time will tell. The few who wanted CPJ to stay want is see us improve but not take over 3 or 4 years ( Which I guess I'm one) . A few ss no reason not to wait for 5 years cause it will take time.

Now here is the problem the few that would talk bad about CPJ keep it up till they pissed off a few that wanted him to go. The funny part now the ones who wanted CPJ to stay are pissing off the ones who wanted CPJ to go . The rest of us just want it to stop and talk about football , uniforms and school colors and see if we can make supersizethatorder-mutt mad cause they like blue.

This message has been brought to you from Bud Light and drink up. We all want to see Tech do good . ( Now I have pissed some of you off but I fine with that )

I think overall, with me. I am all about "show me". Don't talk a good game, play a good game. CPJ made up for a talent gap, by fielding a very unique offense. To be honest, if the defense was better, CPJ would have a lot more wins. Now CPJ is gone, we are left with a complete team of players that aren't meant for the scheme that the new coach wants to run. I like ball controlling offenses and defenses that hit hard and don't apologize for knocking someone on their azz. We are neither one of those, right now. CGC talks a good game, but hasn't played one. I really don't count Duh U.. Because it was about the worst that they played all year. We had many chances against Pitt and couldn't cash in. I am not one to beat my chest because we made one play or won one game, yet many do. CGC seems to beat his chest and has really done nothing to give him that right, in my book. He needs to show me that his talking can start walking.

 

[AlabamaBuzz]

The real issue is that we don’t have consensus agreement on what the expectations should be. Are we supposed to compete with the best, or do we accept that that’s almost impossible and then apply lower expectations accordingly? Unless or until we have a broad consensus about what we should be (and what we are), we will continue to argue about everything. Plus it’s the internet, and arguing is what it was built for.

Yes, unfortunately, I agree with Vespidae mostly. I think we should expect a chance to be top 30 every year, and we could sneak (with above average coaching and strategy) into the top 15-20 some years. Because we are in the coastal, I believe we should be competitive also for the division championship each year.

If we had something that made us extremely unique on the offensive side of the ball (without killing recruiting), I might say occasionally top 5-10. If UGAG keeps recruiting the 4 and 5 star players and their coaching is decent, we will need a miracle to beat them. But, getting our recruiting to a consistent top 30 will allow us to believe there is a chance every year, kind of like we knew there was a chance with the 3O up until the last couple of years.

 

[Technut1990]

The real issue is that some on this site think they need to defend and attack and they resort to personal and degrading comment. They throw accusations out of pocket and demean fellow bloggers. Those folks forget it's a sports blog and in this case a football discussion. They jump to conclusions and rather than participating in the subject they think their guy is being attacked so they defend and attack. It makes it really hard to talk about the good and bad if your only interest is Tech winning and you aren't interested in favorite coach or player mentality. I'm the dummy who was saying we would win 7-8 games so any questioning I do certainly isn't motivated by anti CGC or CPJ feelings, they are football questions -- no different than a question about play selection. Why did he call that or do this should not be a offensive question to anyone.

 

[Coloradojacket]

So up front, I am a big CPJ fan....but you all know this. In my lifetime CPJ took us to more heights than any other coach. Yes I remember 1990.
I am becoming more encouraged by the current staff as I am seeing better coaching and improved play. Also the defense is better.

What concerns me is that there is this belief that we are going to go out and out recruit a bunch of teams and as I have said before....until you change Tech into less of an academic institution you are not going to recruit enough players to get to new heights. You may get some really good number ones, but we will not have enough number twos to have the depth needed. As example, if you take our current recruiting class and sort based on average stars, we are at 3, then we come in tied with about ten teams currently at 33. By the way the number one recruiting class based on this......UGA. for the 2018 class it came in ranked 40 with an average of 3 stars.

In order to surpass we are going to have to come up with a scheme on offense or defense. It is telling reading the VA Tech reporter saying he was glad that during this week he no longer had to talk about assignment defense.

 

[Deleted member 2897]

I take joy in watching Tennessee steadily improve under Pruitt. Many of the naysayers have gone dark and it’s clear his players and his system are making progress. I hope the same happens to Tech.

I am reminded of Kim King’s comments. He said the likelihood of Tech ever competing for a Natty was about zero. But, he thought we could be a Top 30 team, which these days is about 8-4. If CGC can deliver 7-8 wins consistently... while increasing the stature of the program to relevancy, I’ll be very happy.

Well, our last coach delivered just under 8 wins as an average across his 12 year tenure. But I agree with the main thrust of what you're saying. If we get top 25-30 classes every year, then our schedule of 10 non-Clemson/Georgia games means going 8-2 should be possible. Thinking we should beat Duke most years or Virginia or North Carolina or whoever in the Coastal is not unreasonable. Including bowl games we could win 8-10 games every year for a decade without ever beating Clemson and Georgia. But in my opinion, if we're good enough to win 8+ games outside of Clemson and Georgia, we'll occasionally beat them too. May only be 1 of every 5 years or something, but it will naturally happen because that's how football is. We don't have to out-Clemson or out-Georgia anybody to win 8-10 games most years.

 

[yeti92]

I am reminded of Kim King’s comments. He said the likelihood of Tech ever competing for a Natty was about zero. But, he thought we could be a Top 30 team, which these days is about 8-4. If CGC can deliver 7-8 wins consistently... while increasing the stature of the program to relevancy, I’ll be very happy.

7-8 wins consistently is basically Chan Gailey. No thank you, there's no point in playing if that's the goal. Bowl eligibility should be our floor, and undefeated our ceiling and goal.

 

[GTRX7]

7-8 wins consistently is basically Chan Gailey. No thank you, there's no point in playing if that's the goal. Bowl eligibility should be our floor, and undefeated our ceiling and goal.

If you could guarantee me over the next 10 years what we got the last 10, I would take it in a heartbeat.

7.5 win average -- BUT, with 4 seasons with 9+ wins, 2 seasons with 11 wins, and only 2 seasons missing a bowl.
4.7 win average ACC -- BUT with 3 ACC Title Game Appearances, 1 ACC Title, and finished 1st or 2nd in Coastal 7 of 11 years.
2 Orange Bowl Appearances (1 win)
3-6 in bowl games (I would want this to be .500)
3 Wins Over UGA (I would want 4, including at least 1 or 2 at home)

I am happy to take a couple losing seasons for the great ones we also had. I don't think it is realistic for us to expect 10+ wins ever year. #brainwasrightbutshouldnthavesaidit

 

[JorgeJonas]

If you could guarantee me over the next 10 years what we got the last 10, I would take it in a heartbeat.

7.5 win average -- BUT, with 4 seasons with 9+ wins, 2 seasons with 11 wins, and only 2 seasons missing a bowl.
4.7 win average ACC -- BUT with 3 ACC Title Game Appearances, 1 ACC Title, and finished 1st or 2nd in Coastal 7 of 11 years.
2 Orange Bowl Appearances (1 win)
3-6 in bowl games (I would want this to be .500)
3 Wins Over UGA (I would want 4, including at least 1 or 2 at home)

I am happy to take a couple losing seasons for the great ones we also had. I don't think it is realistic for us to expect 10+ wins ever year. #brainwasrightbutshouldnthavesaidit

You have highlighted an important issue. Distribution matters. Johnson and Gailey may have averaged roughly the same wins, but one of them had a couple of 11 win seasons. Those produce an awful lot of goodwill.

 

[JorgeJonas]

Yes, unfortunately, I agree with Vespidae mostly. I think we should expect a chance to be top 30 every year, and we could sneak (with above average coaching and strategy) into the top 15-20 some years. Because we are in the coastal, I believe we should be competitive also for the division championship each year.

If we had something that made us extremely unique on the offensive side of the ball (without killing recruiting), I might say occasionally top 5-10. If UGAG keeps recruiting the 4 and 5 star players and their coaching is decent, we will need a miracle to beat them. But, getting our recruiting to a consistent top 30 will allow us to believe there is a chance every year, kind of like we knew there was a chance with the 3O up until the last couple of years.

I dunno. Already in this thread we have people who think 7 or 8 wins is the goal, and others saying undefeated. I really don’t know how to negotiate those two.

 

[Coloradojacket]

If you could guarantee me over the next 10 years what we got the last 10, I would take it in a heartbeat.

7.5 win average -- BUT, with 4 seasons with 9+ wins, 2 seasons with 11 wins, and only 2 seasons missing a bowl.
4.7 win average ACC -- BUT with 3 ACC Title Game Appearances, 1 ACC Title, and finished 1st or 2nd in Coastal 7 of 11 years.
2 Orange Bowl Appearances (1 win)
3-6 in bowl games (I would want this to be .500)
3 Wins Over UGA (I would want 4, including at least 1 or 2 at home)

I am happy to take a couple losing seasons for the great ones we also had. I don't think it is realistic for us to expect 10+ wins ever year. #brainwasrightbutshouldnthavesaidit

And for 2015 let's remember how many players we lost on the offense to graduation 10, and then to injury. It provided one of the greatest wins in our history and we lost 6 games by 7 points or less including UGA.