HC Candidate/Rumors/Info Thread

Augusta_Jacket

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Facts?

It is well known that Collins used social media which was not widely used at the time to join the class together and create cohesiveness. They then recruited each other. He leveraged his success with that class to get a job with Saban.

Gif Smith was the mastermind behind that class. It wasn't until 2018 when CGC was hired that we started crediting him with it.
 

jacketup

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While I agree CPJ left a team that was devoid of talent, I also acknowledge that it is my opinion and not "a fact."
Do you disagree that the team he left behind was recruited for the option? Do you disagree that skills for the run option are different from those needed for the type of balanced offenses that P5 teams run? Do you disagree that Johnson's teams were never good on defense? Have you looked at YPP for his defenses? Do you disagree that 8 D starters were lost from Johnson's last team, including 6 of the front 7? I don't believe it's opinion that what Collins inherited was devoid of talent. Or maybe it's just opinion that the sky is blue.
 

jacketup

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Gif Smith was the mastermind behind that class. It wasn't until 2018 when CGC was hired that we started crediting him with it.
Giff Smith was a D line coach and a fine recruiter. Giff Smith had been on the staff since 2004 and never put together a class like that--in fact, the 2006 class was pretty bad.

Collins was recruiting coordinator/personnel director for the 2006 season/2007 class (Feb signing date remember). He was on staff for that one year.

I give you those facts and let you draw your own conclusion as to whether or not Giff Smith was the "mastermind."
 

stech81

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sponsible Facts?

It is well known that Collins used social media which was not widely used at the time to join the class together and create cohesiveness. They then recruited each other. He leveraged his success with that class to get a job with Saban.
And after 1 year he was Collins was terminated by Saban. Him being responsible for 2007 class was said by him to build his self-up.
 

Augusta_Jacket

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Giff Smith was a D line coach and a fine recruiter. Giff Smith had been on the staff since 2004 and never put together a class like that--in fact, the 2006 class was pretty bad.

Collins was recruiting coordinator/personnel director for the 2006 season/2007 class (Feb signing date remember). He was on staff for that one year.

What's odd is that until 2018, Collins was never connected to that class, but it was credited to Giff Smith. Those are facts as well.
 

leatherneckjacket

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Do you disagree that the team he left behind was recruited for the option? Do you disagree that skills for the run option are different from those needed for the type of balanced offenses that P5 teams run? Do you disagree that Johnson's teams were never good on defense? Have you looked at YPP for his defenses? Do you disagree that 8 D starters were lost from Johnson's last team, including 6 of the front 7? I don't believe it's opinion that what Collins inherited was devoid of talent. Or maybe it's just opinion that the sky is blue.
None of what you wrote refutes the argument that saying "we were devoid of talent" is an opinion and not a fact.
 

ibeattetris

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If you're going to use stats, you should take out the outliers on the high and low end and see what you get. CPJ went 11-3 with a team he didn't recruit in 2009. He went 3-9 in an injury plagued 2015. Subtract those two years and you'll probably have a good idea of how good a coach he was or wasn't.

Doubt the results will fit the narrative though...
No no. He can cherry pick data but it’s not okay to cherry pick other data.
 

slugboy

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Giff Smith was a D line coach and a fine recruiter. Giff Smith had been on the staff since 2004 and never put together a class like that--in fact, the 2006 class was pretty bad.

Collins was recruiting coordinator/personnel director for the 2006 season/2007 class (Feb signing date remember). He was on staff for that one year.

I give you those facts and let you draw your own conclusion as to whether or not Giff Smith was the "mastermind."
The 2006 class was bad because we were on probation for APR issues

During “Flunkgate”, we under-recruited offensive linemen and it hurt us. Possibly even before. Detractors of Johnson say “he had that great 2007 class”. He also won with a thin OL, and had walk-ons in some positions. He worked around a lot of gaps in the roster, and he deserves credit for that.

Everyone involved is going to take some credit for a successful recruiting class, but the players recruited seem to say it was Smith. There were a lot of good recruiters on Gailey’s staff, and they all deserve credit

Did Collins reproduce that same class elsewhere? More importantly, did that 2007 bump in recruiting follow him around?

I’ll add that Collins had a reputation as a good recruiter. He lost that reputation over the last few years because of talent evaluation. Until Giff Smith went to the NFL, he had a track record of good classes and a reputation as a great recruiter.

When we hired Collins, I thought “I’d always heard it was Smith, but Collins says it was him, and he has a reputation in the media”. It hasn’t panned out, though. And some of our best recruits were tied to Choice or other coaches. I have my doubts about how big Collins’ personal impact was now.

 
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