GT Ranked 48th in Preseason SP+ Projections

alagold

Helluva Engineer
Messages
3,718
Location
Huntsville,Al
Sheboygan said:
We are getting a few playmakers that can make a difference. IMO, next year we will have 2-3 that will need to be accounted for on offense : Gibbs, Sims, Mason, maybe a WR will step up. What we REALLY need is a stud DL/DE that needs to be double teamed .......Clayton ??
Click to expand...
I hope that the Harris transfer will be that man.He certainly has had the stats to suggest so.
 

jgtengineer

Helluva Engineer
Messages
2,950
senoiajacket said:
The only logical assumption I can make to your statement is that your are implying since there were a lower number of possessions per game with the 3O, it wasn't "designed" to score as much? Every offense is designed to score every time they have the ball. The success or failure of reaching that goal is how you measure an offense. Or is there some other logic you are using to say it was CLEARLY not designed to score as much.
Click to expand...

I wouldn't bother, the simple fact that he made the statement that the offensive scheme which has lead to some of the most explosive offenses in recent history both with us, at navy, and at army (note explosive means plays of >20 yards) not being designed to score is laughable and pretty much disqualifies discourse. An offense not designed to score explosively is actually the West Coast, but not because scoring quickly cant happen (a good reciever can take a slant 85 yards to the house but they still caught it 5 yards down field) but because the idea of the traditional west coast offense is to get 5 yards, get 5 yards, get five yards. Now west coast offenses were updated to include shots and boom or checkdown options over time and i would not argue that it isn't an offense designed to score explosivley now just that at its back bone its get five yards. The Ball control nature of a running offense is seen as the fall back of the option. The idea on any given option play is to out leverage the defense and hopefully get the ball into the hands of an extremely fast person with an open alley to the endzone. In a CPJ scheme, the idea is to create mismatches for wide open passes. The year we were probably best at scheming receivers open was actually 2015, but things were just bad in general think back on how many times lynch was just wide-*** open with no one around him.

Tempo does not equate to a scheme, you can run all schemes with tempo.
 
LibertyTurns

LibertyTurns

Banned
Messages
6,216
senoiajacket said:
The only logical assumption I can make to your statement is that your are implying since there were a lower number of possessions per game with the 3O, it wasn't "designed" to score as much? Every offense is designed to score every time they have the ball. The success or failure of reaching that goal is how you measure an offense. Or is there some other logic you are using to say it was CLEARLY not designed to score as much.
Click to expand...
So you’d want us all to believe a football coach would look at an offense and say to himself: Man, I’m going to trade my 30 ppg offense for a 21ppg offense? Some people on here seem to want to argue it’s not total points but points per drive. Same argument, would any logical football coach trade a higher ppd offense for a lower one? It gives you the same advantage.

There’s only 3 reasons you’d get lower production:
a. Players are less talented
b. Coaches are incapable
c. Scheme is weaker

We say the scheme is superior, we claim our coaches are better & based on our recruiting our players are now more talented. Better players with better coaches & a better scheme equals more points.

Damn, our “before the season even starts excuse factor” is pegged. Have some damn faith around here people.
 

cthenrys

Ramblin' Wreck
Messages
942
Location
Highland Village, TX
LibertyTurns said:
We haven’t had the players YET. Got them now.
Click to expand...
So now we’ll see then. That’s why this season will in fact say a lot. It’s an inflection point. Which it goes is the question. If it stays level or turns negative that’s bad. It’s time to ditch the “historic transformation” and win some games. They’re there to be won. Can we do it is the question.
 

mtodd30

Ramblin' Wreck
Messages
731
I am a Collins apologist, but barring really really bad luck even I need a floor of 5 wins. I think he knows it too, WHAT’S IMPORTANT NOW is W.I.N. 21
 

augustabuzz

Helluva Engineer
Messages
3,412
Heisman's Ghost said:
Love your confidence but do not fully share it. I expect at least 4 wins total this year.
Click to expand...
I don't see us regressing. We have been extremely young in all key areas except one. The mistakes made (non-physical) reduced over the course of the season. Younger people tend to be the ones who make the quicker improvement (mental mistakes less frequent). We should be more equal physically than we have been. Finally, technique and vision are executed quicker because of the increase in reps.

We will improve faster than our competition. Learning how to win is the hill for this team to climb. This will be a fun year for the team and the fans.
 
Pointer

Pointer

Helluva Engineer
Messages
1,801
LibertyTurns said:
So you’d want us all to believe a football coach would look at an offense and say to himself: Man, I’m going to trade my 30 ppg offense for a 21ppg offense? Some people on here seem to want to argue it’s not total points but points per drive. Same argument, would any logical football coach trade a higher ppd offense for a lower one? It gives you the same advantage.

There’s only 3 reasons you’d get lower production:
a. Players are less talented
b. Coaches are incapable
c. Scheme is weaker

We say the scheme is superior, we claim our coaches are better & based on our recruiting our players are now more talented. Better players with better coaches & a better scheme equals more points.

Damn, our “before the season even starts excuse factor” is pegged. Have some damn faith around here people.
Click to expand...
1) coaches coach schemes that they feel give them the best chances to be successful. One scheme may be more advantages than another and we can argue which scheme is best until at are blue in the face, but that's not the point (and more based on opinion of either side than anything). A coach runs a scheme that that coach feels they can install successfully and can call successful plays from. It's not just how the players fit, but it's also the question of is the coach capable of installing said scheme and calling successful plays from it. Summary: scheme less important than coaching.

2) Your whole post regarding some offense being designed to score more points per game neglects the fact that in the best case scenario regarding your offense assuming it's scoring every drive, your defense has to be good enough to stop the other team. Otherwise you're both putting up the same number of points regardless of the explosiveness or pace of either team.

Now let's assume we don't have a lights out scoring machine in place yet. We can still call "explosive plays" and do it with tempo, but if that 30+ yard pass attempts fall incomplete on first, second, and third down you just got off the field real quick (see our offense the past two years).

3) please explain lower production, I'm not sure I follow where you're going with that.

4) Again let's assume both teams offenses are scoring every drive. One team runs tempo so they are used to allot of possessions per game, the other can run more methodical (our old offense). The up tempo team suddenly doesn't have the same number of possessions they are used to throwing them off rithym, and their defense is getting more and more gassed throughout the game. While the side who hasn't been scoring as fast, had a defense that has been getting scored on as well, but are much fresher towards the end of the game and much more likely to get a stop than the up tempo offense teams' defense (mouth full there). For an example, see our championship game against Clemson 09.

Edit:
With all that said, I really do think we get a nice boost on both sides of the ball this season if for no other reason than coaches having a full pre-season to coach. Not saying we will be world beaters or unstoppable, but I expect much better results this season with a floor of 6 wins and a chance at much better than that.
 

JacketOff

Helluva Engineer
Messages
2,951
Coloradojacket said:
Bottom line, this is the season. If we don't get 6 wins and get to a bowl...it is time to get a new coach. This experiment will have been a failure and don't throw out about rebuilding because we were a winning team prior to this staff.
Click to expand...
From 2014-2018 Georgia Tech football:
  • Had a losing record in the Coastal (14-16)
  • Had a losing record against annual opponents (16-24)
  • Had losing records to 4 of 6 Coastal opponents, and 6 of 8 annual opponents
  • Had 2 losing seasons; failed to make a bowl twice in 5 seasons
  • Had a losing record against P5 opponents
  • Had a 30-28 record against FBS opponents
Everyone knows your stance on the coaching staff. You don’t have to keep plastering it all over every thread. But if you’re going to continuously blurt out your stance, I think it’s fair to provide a little bit of factual data. Is it not fair to say that the previous experiment had failed? Or at least was not producing optimal results? Is it not fair to at least try a new approach? The numbers say that Tech was pretty good against teams we didn’t play every year. And We were pretty mediocre to bad against the ones we did play every year. The Collins “experiment” won’t be over next year unless it’s catastrophic (it won’t be). And the 3O won’t be coming back to Tech in 2022 no matter what. So please, for the sake of everyone on this board, stop pushing your agenda so hard and just come along for the ride.

Now I’m sure your first instinct will be to come back with something like: “well, would you not prefer those results to these results?!?” And the answer is obviously yes. I would prefer to win more games than lose. But it’s not like Tech was a world beater before Collins took over. At best we were average. The ceiling for Georgia Tech football is higher than average. Everyone knows the previous 2 years have been well below average. No one will argue with you about that. Everyone should also know that roster issues played a large part in those shortcomings. For some reason you love to argue with people about that point. Everyone expects to win more than 3 games this year and be much more competitive. Not doing so will be disappointing. But once again, please stop pushing your opinion down everyone’s throat on. Every. Single. Thread. It will play out how it will. Just let it be. Peace out.
 
Pointer

Pointer

Helluva Engineer
Messages
1,801
JacketOff said:
From 2014-2018 Georgia Tech football:
  • Had a losing record in the Coastal (14-16)
  • Had a losing record against annual opponents (16-24)
  • Had losing records to 4 of 6 Coastal opponents, and 6 of 8 annual opponents
  • Had 2 losing seasons; failed to make a bowl twice in 5 seasons
  • Had a losing record against P5 opponents
  • Had a 30-28 record against FBS opponents
Everyone knows your stance on the coaching staff. You don’t have to keep plastering it all over every thread. But if you’re going to continuously blurt out your stance, I think it’s fair to provide a little bit of factual data. Is it not fair to say that the previous experiment had failed? Or at least was not producing optimal results? Is it not fair to at least try a new approach? The numbers say that Tech was pretty good against teams we didn’t play every year. And We were pretty mediocre to bad against the ones we did play every year. The Collins “experiment” won’t be over next year unless it’s catastrophic (it won’t be). And the 3O won’t be coming back to Tech in 2022 no matter what. So please, for the sake of everyone on this board, stop pushing your agenda so hard and just come along for the ride.

Now I’m sure your first instinct will be to come back with something like: “well, would you not prefer those results to these results?!?” And the answer is obviously yes. I would prefer to win more games than lose. But it’s not like Tech was a world beater before Collins took over. At best we were average. The ceiling for Georgia Tech football is higher than average. Everyone knows the previous 2 years have been well below average. No one will argue with you about that. Everyone should also know that roster issues played a large part in those shortcomings. For some reason you love to argue with people about that point. Everyone expects to win more than 3 games this year and be much more competitive. Not doing so will be disappointing. But once again, please stop pushing your opinion down everyone’s throat on. Every. Single. Thread. It will play out how it will. Just let it be. Peace out.
Click to expand...
Over the last two years,

  1. We have two 3 win seasons totaling 6 wins, not average.
  2. First home shut out in modern football era
  3. Record number of points scored on by acc team
  4. Lost to an fcs team, running the same offense you guys think is a joke.
See how ****ty a post can be when I leave out all the positives such as a marked uptick in recruiting, better marketing, extremely talented rb and qb...

I like how you just so easily glossed over the 11 win part of the '14 season that was in playoff conversation, first orange bowl victory over a team ranked number 1 for much of the season, and the 9 win part of the '16 season. Or the fact that the results from 2018 are almost double what most of you guys are projecting for this coming season.

No matter that 2015, we basically lost all starters for the season. But whatever. I just think it's funny that you created a post to counter someone you say has an agenda and is one sided, you so humbly proceed to do the exact thing you are so upset about.
 
Last edited:
forensicbuzz

forensicbuzz

21st Century Throwback Dad
Messages
8,804
Location
North Shore, Chicago
Coloradojacket said:
Bottom line, this is the season. If we don't get 6 wins and get to a bowl...it is time to get a new coach. This experiment will have been a failure and don't throw out about rebuilding because we were a winning team prior to this staff.
Click to expand...
I think, bottom line, this is a short-sighted opinion. I won't be satisfied with less than what you say, but that doesn't mean it's time to get a new coach. If we repeat this year, without some very strange circumstances, I'll be scratching my head, but not ready to blow this thing up yet. His guys are still young, but not so young as we shouldn't see significant improvement in play.
 

JacketOff

Helluva Engineer
Messages
2,951
GTRanj2 said:
Over the last two years,

  1. We have two 3 win seasons totaling 6 wins, not average.
  2. First home shut out in modern football era
  3. Record number of points scored on by acc team
  4. Lost to an fcs team, running the same offense you guys think is a joke.
See how ****ty a post can be when I leave out all the positives such as a marked uptick in recruiting, better marketing, extremely talented rb and qb...

I like how you just so easily glossed over the 11 win part of the '14 season that was in playoff conversation, first orange bowl victory over a team ranked number 1 for much of the season, and the 9 win part of the '16 season. Or the fact that the results from 2018 are almost double what most of you guys are projecting for this coming season.

No matter that 2015, we basically lost all starters for the season. But whatever. I just think it's funny that you created a post to counter someone you say has an agenda and is one sided, you so humbly proceed to do the exact thing you are so upset about.
Click to expand...
I didn’t “gloss over” an 11 win season. It’s included in the numbers. Just like a 3 win season. I also plainly stated that the previous 2 years were 3 win seasons, and that it would be unacceptable should it happen again. None of the points you made counter the main point of my post, which was that Georgia Tech football was average at best, and mediocre to bad at worst over the 5 year span from 2014-2018. It wasn’t a “winning program” like was the post I was responding to insinuated.

Is posting a losing record against P5 teams a winning program? Is posting a losing record against division opponents a winning program? Is having a losing record to over half the teams in your own division a winning program? Is being 8 games under .500 against annual opponents a winning program? Is posting a .517 W% against FBS opponents a sign of a winning program?

I like how you singled out that 2015 season as being some sort of anomaly, but don’t give the same benefit of the doubt to the 2019 season. A year where we lost the starting QB, leading WR, 8 of the top 11 leading tacklers, and had a tragic loss of life for a starting DT before the season even started. Then proceeded to lose the projected #1 WR, 2 starting DL, and the OL was decimated so bad that walk-ons were starting. On top of the fact that the basic fundamentals of the offensive side of the ball were being changed completely.

This was the main point of my post
JacketOff said:
Is it not fair to say that the previous experiment had failed? Or at least was not producing optimal results? Is it not fair to at least try a new approach? The numbers say that Tech was pretty good against teams we didn’t play every year. And We were pretty mediocre to bad against the ones we did play every year.
Click to expand...
JacketOff said:
But it’s not like Tech was a world beater before Collins took over. At best we were average. The ceiling for Georgia Tech football is higher than average.
Click to expand...

But for some reason you went straight to the response I was expecting:
JacketOff said:
Now I’m sure your first instinct will be to come back with something like: “well, would you not prefer those results to these results?!?”
Click to expand...

Maybe try to read the rest of my comment before you come back and try to dunk on me. You might pick up on some subtleties like this:
JacketOff said:
Everyone knows the previous 2 years have been well below average.
Click to expand...
 
Augusta_Jacket

Augusta_Jacket

Moderator
Staff member
Messages
8,093
Location
Augusta, Georgia
JacketOff said:
  • Had a losing record in the Coastal (14-16)
  • Had a losing record against annual opponents (16-24)
  • Had losing records to 4 of 6 Coastal opponents, and 6 of 8 annual opponents
  • Had 2 losing seasons; failed to make a bowl twice in 5 seasons
  • Had a losing record against P5 opponents
Click to expand...

So it took CGC two years to match the lowest points of CPJs career?

One injury laden year really skews the numbers. I get you aren't a fan of CPJ, but these arguments are old and frankly, pretty pointless. The ONLY year CPJ had a losing record in the ACC was 2015, and all three of his losing seasons were understandable if you aren't agenda driven. In 2010 JN goes down and CPJ has to start a true Sophomore at QB the rest of the season. Growing pains hurt us, we finish 6-6 and lose a bowl game. 2015 was year from $%^# and injuries depleted us. Despite that, most of our losses were by a single score and we were competitive in all but two games. 2017 with the game cancellation that left us on the outside looking end at the end of the season.
 
Top