GT needed a change

[Whiskey_Clear]

So long as TS is the AD we will not be hiring a CPJ tree coach, nor should we. We already did that experiment. It does not work consistently to win championships in the ACC. DOES NOT WORK. Read that again.

We offer way more to recruits than Duke, WF, Vandy. WAY MORE.
We can offer different but still very enticing things over UGA and Clemson. When put all together- GT should be just below the blue chips and above everyone else as far as recruiting goes. We should be Top 25 in recruiting every single year.

It DID WORK. Read that again.

 

[White_Gold]

Johnson's refusal to adapt killed any chance at Monken getting the job here after him. I was at southern when he was coach there. I think he's a great coach, and am glad he isn't at GT because he'd have been walking into a terrible situation that would likely set his career back. Half the fanbase would already be against him because of the offense, and he'd be inheriting a team with a significant number of flaws that was going to need to be rebuilt no matter what. Some people don't want to see it but we were on a decline under Johnson the past several years. Our defense was poised to take a big step back due to losses, and it wasn't good to start, and the offense lost a good bit as well.

Also, Monken's a good coach but he isn't a miracle worker. He went 6-18 at Army his first two years just a one game improvement from the previous two years. For good reason. They weren't set up to win. Neither are we. He would have needed time to get things going here, and a big part of hiring him would have been to avoid that kind of thing.

Quality post. Johnson did very little variation in his offense compared to his past offenses. Go look at his time at Hawaii, Navy under Ken N, Army under Monken. He just...didn’t want to do any variation!

 

[Whiskey_Clear]

Quality post. Johnson did very little variation in his offense compared to his past offenses. Go look at his time at Hawaii, Navy under Ken N, Army under Monken. He just...didn’t want to do any variation!

Quality post. That’s wrong also. Although the variation ended up failing.

 

[White_Gold]

It DID WORK. Read that again.

Yeah it worked. Worked us farther and farther back into the division to the point where Duke is winning the Coastal and fans stop donating to our program

 

[gtg391z]

We were not the same after Monken left except for 2014. Monken is a good football coach.

 

[White_Gold]

Quality post. That’s wrong also. Although the variation ended up failing.

It’s not wrong. It’s 100% truth.

 

[Whiskey_Clear]

Yeah it worked. Worked us farther and farther back into the division to the point where Duke is winning the Coastal and fans stop donating to our program

LOL

It’s not CPJs fault that our fan base is probably the worst in P5 outside of Duke. It’s been that way for 40 years with a one year blip of good.

 

[Whiskey_Clear]

It’s not wrong. It’s 100% truth.

Your truth is false.

 

[White_Gold]

Your truth is false.

You never buckled your chin strap in Bobby Dodd so there’s no way for you to actually know the truth.
But you don’t have to defer to authority, go watch the film. It’s on the YouTubes.

CPJ did not open his playbook at Tech.

 

[ilovetheoption]

As I have said before, I was firmly in the Monken camp. I think it was the wrong decision not to hire him and to hire CGC instead. I won't go back into the details on that because I've already done so, and it's not the time for it.

But, I want to be fair to GT, to Stansbury, and to Collins in evaluating this new era as a fan. I understand that I am not infallible in my view, so I could be wrong about the decision ... Maybe we can recruit really well (like top 10-15 eventually). Maybe we can have a great defensive scheme with Collins, Thacker, and Burton heading it up. Maybe Patenaude is a very underrated offensive mind who can be a top OC eventually once the recruiting catches up.

I know this: it would not be fair to seriously criticize this Collins era in the first year. He has to have time to develop his "culture" and to recruit players to what he's trying to do. So, even though losing to the Citadel was embarrassing (and VERY ironic), I'm not going to take cheap shots at Collins or the program right now. This Citadel loss provides such a tempting opportunity to claim that my view about Monken/Collins and the Option and the philosophy of football hype vs substance and such is the superior view, I just don't feel it fair or right to do so at this point. It's a "love your neighbor as yourself, do unto others" thing. If the shoe was on the other foot and people were criticizing Monken or my view unfairly, I would think they were wrong for doing so, so I will try to abide by a consistent standard.

I have to confess that I did feel some morbid sense of satisfaction at losing to the Triple Option the way we did, even though I was pulling for GT the whole game. I was sick over losing when we missed that last field goal and they made theirs, and yet something in me cheered the way that option was churning against us with us having the far superior players. There was just something poetic about it.

For me, it's going to be a frustrating 3 years, but I truly don't think it will be fair to make any kind of serious evaluation of Collins until we get to year 3 or 4, with his players being entrenched in his schemes. Another poster (@jacketup , I think?) astutely pointed out our struggles during G'Ol and Freidgen's first few years with Little Joe. Seems to me those on our side of this view should consciously and publicly take the high road, cheer for Collins and GT for the next 3 years for better or worse, and then either be proven right or wrong. Once that time comes, we're either enjoying the success of our being wrong or we get to proclaim our view to be the one we should all follow from that point forward. And, hopefully, we would have a fanbase that would be as unified as possible and ready to hear it. GT's success moving forward (which an above average, unified, mature fanbase would help with in the long run) should be all of our priority.

This is going to sound jerky, but is not meant that way. Do you believe, after seeing the level of support that Johnson got during his tenure at GT, that GT is a more attractive job to Coach Monken than Army?

If you were coach Monken, would YOU leave Army to coach at GT, knowing what we know?

 

[Supersizethatorder-mutt]

I also want to add that I don't have a big problem with anything Collins is doing. As long as he's not cheating, I'm good with him doing things the way he believes they should be done and trying some things out. Wisdom is justified by her children, so conclusions will be valid at some point though delayed. I honestly am warming up to Collins, the person. I like that he believes in what he's doing and defends it and defends his players, that he's consistent in his message and built on positivity - it shows conviction. He's saying and displaying some things that I like, even in a horrible loss, which is a good sign. I see no moral issues (yet) and see some ground for moral hope ... everything else I can give lots of leeway.

To be "against" Collins at this point is IMO to be against Tech. I support Tech, and I support him .... BUT I do not support and will continue to criticize the inability or unwillingness to name a starter at QB and leave him in the game. This (to me) mindless rotation of QBs, especially within a given series on the field is not going to cut it, and it's going to further fracture our fan base.

 

[AlabamaBuzz]

This is going to sound jerky, but is not meant that way. Do you believe, after seeing the level of support that Johnson got during his tenure at GT, that GT is a more attractive job to Coach Monken than Army?

If you were coach Monken, would YOU leave Army to coach at GT, knowing what we know?

I did not take that as "jerky" at all. I think Coach Monken would be very foolish to leave West Point for GT, even if the salary was larger.

But, I still wish we had discussed the job with him and gotten his ideas.

 

[vamosjackets]

This is going to sound jerky, but is not meant that way. Do you believe, after seeing the level of support that Johnson got during his tenure at GT, that GT is a more attractive job to Coach Monken than Army?

If you were coach Monken, would YOU leave Army to coach at GT, knowing what we know?

Winning cures all. There were plenty of folks who were reluctant to get on the CPJ train to begin with until '08 and '09 happened. Then plenty of people were off again until '14 happened. When you win championships and beat your rival, the "love" flows.

You have a higher ceiling at GT than Army. You get the chance to compete for the whole enchilada. That's not the case at Army, as much as I respect and love that kind of place. This is why a guy like CPJ left Navy and went to GT. A competitor who truly believes in what he's doing is going to be drawn to the highest level of competition. If the NFL wanted to give CPJ a shot, he would've been gone. If Army or any academy were to join a P5 conference, it would be a different story.

 

[Whiskey_Clear]

You never buckled your chin strap in Bobby Dodd so there’s no way for you to actually know the truth.
But you don’t have to defer to authority, go watch the film. It’s on the YouTubes.

CPJ did not open his playbook at Tech.

You take a hit after forgetting to buckle that chin strap? You obviously forget the pistol with Lee. It wasn’t pretty but it was variation.

 

[Supersizethatorder-mutt]

Winning cures all. There were plenty of folks who were reluctant to get on the CPJ train to begin with until '08 and '09 happened. Then plenty of people were off again until '14 happened. When you win championships and beat your rival, the "love" flows.

If Gailey had done those two things, he would have been at Tech a LONG time.

 

[YellowJacketFan2018]

I did not take that as "jerky" at all. I think Coach Monken would be very foolish to leave West Point for GT, even if the salary was larger.

But, I still wish we had discussed the job with him and gotten his ideas.

Brian Bohannon of Kennesaw State would take the job in December 2020 if things under Geoff Collins get bad enough to where he's canned after the 2020 season.

 

[Whiskey_Clear]

Winning cures all. There were plenty of folks who were reluctant to get on the CPJ train to begin with until '08 and '09 happened. Then plenty of people were off again until '14 happened. When you win championships and beat your rival, the "love" flows.

I think you underestimate the number that never got on board and gritted their teeth in frustration every good year we had....delaying the departure of CPJ they yearned so hard for.

 

[vamosjackets]

So long as TS is the AD we will not be hiring a CPJ tree coach, nor should we. We already did that experiment. It does not work consistently to win championships in the ACC. DOES NOT WORK. Read that again.

We offer way more to recruits than Duke, WF, Vandy. WAY MORE.
We can offer different but still very enticing things over UGA and Clemson. When put all together- GT should be just below the blue chips and above everyone else as far as recruiting goes. We should be Top 25 in recruiting every single year.

Using your logic, I guess we also have already tried the "pro-style" experiment and even the "Friedgen multiple formations" experiment and neither of them "consistently" won championships in the ACC either. Come on.

 

[Augusta_Jacket]

I think you underestimate the number that never got on board and gritted their teeth in frustration every good year we had....delaying the departure of CPJ they yearned so hard for.

This. I know there were several donors who felt as if, somehow, hiring CPJ was a case of us admitting we couldn't compete otherwise, rather than hiring a future HoF coach and letting him run his program. If you're predispositioned to believe something, even when it's patently false, facts to the contrary make little difference.

 

[Augusta_Jacket]

Using your logic, I guess we also have already tried the "pro-style" experiment and even the "Friedgen multiple formations" experiment and neither of them "consistently" won championships either in the ACC either. Come on.

Talk about a mic drop moment...