GT needed a change

[Oldgoldandwhite]

Until we recruit a passing QB, we had better tailor our offense to our skills.
Not bomb, bomb, sack.

 

[ibeattetris]

CPJ failed to field an even average D after 2008 (which was an Average D). That's why we didn't win more most years. Over the last couple of years we got bit by a less than expected QB, but we still managed to go 5-3 in conference, 2nd in the Coastal last year. Saying that his offense didn't work is just ignorant.

I was about to make this same post. CPJ's biggest failure was his inability to field a competent defense. Anyone arguing against the offense had their heads in the sand.

My hope with Collins is he will eventually give us a great defense and find someone to give us a good offense (instead of a great offense and bad defense).

 

[Whiskey_Clear]

I’m sorry to say that the current state of human culture is that we love to be right and, perhaps even more importantly, for someone to be wrong. So if it wasn’t the coach it would be something else. For instance, there are people who like things about CGC but hate others (such as the money down stuff). And it’s not a discussion it’s an argument about who is right. Few seem to respect opposing positions. And of course, when you add in something truly polarizing it gets even worse.

I won’t argue with someone who says a particular scheme is boring to them. But when they make hold face lies that one “didn’t work” when stats make it clear it did at a high level....that I will argue.

 

[takethepoints]

What do you expect after this start?

But I agree with Gold1. Tech people would just as soon drop down to FCS as ever run an option again. Will never happen.

You are that sure about that, are you?

I'm not. If last Saturday turns out to be what we can look forward to for the rest of the season - but Heaven forfend - then Coach could find himself in the same boat Brian VanGorder did at Georgia Southern: a fanbase in arms and desperate calls to bring back the old ways now before the whole business tanks.

If things deteriorate, I can easily see Tech in the same boat as Rice; the two schools are quite similar and their programs face the same problems. And I hope nobody here is thinking that the administration and faculty (not to mention the General Assembly) would move even a little finger to stop momentum toward such a result.

Now, like I keep saying, I doubt this will happen. The result against the Citadel was disheartening, but there's no reason that it should dictate the rest of the season, provided the coaching staff pulls itself together. If it does, however …

 

[link3945]

I was about to make this same post. CPJ's biggest failure was his inability to field a competent defense. Anyone arguing against the offense had their heads in the sand.

My hope with Collins is he will eventually give us a great defense and find someone to give us a good offense (instead of a great offense and bad defense).

Watching college football, I think anyone outside of those top 10 or so recruiting schools has to make a choice: good offense or good defense. It's really rare to find a team not in that upper recruiting echelon that has both. When you're not recruiting to that elite level, you have to choose where your best athletes play. The teams that sneak into the top 25 consistently tend to lean one way or the other

 

[ibeattetris]

Watching college football, I think anyone outside of those top 10 or so recruiting schools has to make a choice: good offense or good defense. It's really rare to find a team not in that upper recruiting echelon that has both. When you're not recruiting to that elite level, you have to choose where your best athletes play. The teams that sneak into the top 25 consistently tend to lean one way or the other

I was just trying to express what I hope can happen. Collins will have his 7 years to build a team. Even if he makes a great defense and average offense, we'd still be better in aggregate. Time will tell.

 

[AlabamaBuzz]

I haven’t seen anybody correctly utilize the strengths of GT in recruiting. That’s definitely one thing that is completely different from CGC. He and his assistants are the only coaches I’ve heard iterate exactly what I think makes GT great, better than other schools to play football at.

Gailey finally understood it, but was clearly not a leader of young men who are developing and couldn’t find anyone decent to coordinate his recruits on offense.

I agree that GT is unique, and I strongly believe we have "selling" points that with the right salesman can be used to attract young men to play FB for GT. With that said, it will be very, very surprising to me that there will be "enough" of them to be convinced, and especially at the DL positions, to make the difference we all would like to see.

But, this is an example where we probably disagree on some things (me based on tutoring of young athletes in HS and yours based on being a former collegiate GT athlete) And, that is OK. I hope you are more right than me.

 

[Animal02]

I agree that GT is unique, and I strongly believe we have "selling" points that with the right salesman can be used to attract young men to play FB for GT. With that said, it will be very, very surprising to me that there will be "enough" of them to be convinced, and especially at the DL positions, to make the difference we all would like to see.

But, this is an example where we probably disagree on some things (me based on tutoring of young athletes in HS and yours based on being a former collegiate GT athlete) And, that is OK. I hope you are more right than me.

The only way is with a boatload of money to search every corner of the country for this few kids that are D1 material, want to major in one of Tech's limited offerings, and is willing to put up with the academics.

 

[jojatk]

I won’t argue with someone who says a particular scheme is boring to them. But when they make hold face lies that one “didn’t work” when stats make it clear it did at a high level....that I will argue.

Don’t get me wrong. Sometimes an argument is absolutely warranted. Not denying that at all.

Of course since I am a fan of the style of offense we ran under CPJ that’s one thing you and I will not be arguing about [emoji6]


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Pointer]

I was about to make this same post. CPJ's biggest failure was his inability to field a competent defense. Anyone arguing against the offense had their heads in the sand.

My hope with Collins is he will eventually give us a great defense and find someone to give us a good offense (instead of a great offense and bad defense).

This would unite most of us. This and get rid of that stupid money down stuff.

 

[Heisman's Ghost]

Think Citadel with MUCH better players.

Honestly, the TO is an offense that is designed for teams that have restrictions that do not allow them to compete on a level playing field with the big boys. The academies have adopted it because it was th inly way for them to remain competitive and the data is quite clear that it has worked nicely for them.

The argument has long been that big time players don't want to play in that offense and hence your recruiting will drop off. I had thought that was what happened at GT. I concede (and embrace) @Longestday 's point that the recruiting problems may have simply been a lousy AD who starved the football program of the resources it needed. I guess we'll never know if the nay-saying fans who bitterly argued over this point were correct that it hurt recruiting or not. But the results did definitely tail off.

My one concern is that even with a good AD now in TStan, we still are an Institute with severe restrictions which will not allow us to compete head-on with the big boys. I don't think this can be overcome with hype, or even money (although that helps). I think the Institute will always hamper GT from competing the way the SEC (and now Clemson) competes.

Our fan base bravely declares that we don't want to be like them, but then complains bitterly when we lose to them consistently. As O'Leary famously complained, we want to be Harvard during the week and Notre Dame on weekends. (I think he actually used different schools as examples, but you get my point.) Clearly our fan base doesn't know how to run a football program.

Let's hope our AD and Head Coach do.

Long time ago and my memory fades but I think you are correct. Coach O'Leary did say, probably out of frustration with the Hill geeks, that Tech wants to be Harvard during the week and Notre Dame on weekends. I think those were the schools.

 

[Heisman's Ghost]

We are done with the triple option. He will not be here

A few bad seasons and you may wish to reconsider that argument. Personally, I think Coach Collins is the right coach but he like many others who come here will require patience on the part of the fan base. That said, there is a nagging little voice that keeps whispering: "What if the bandwagon critics are right?" What if Coach Collins turns out to be all hat and no cattle as they say in Texas. What if, the promised recruiting gold mine is not realized. What if the error filled fiasco witnessed last Saturday becomes commonplace as during Randy Shannon and Al Golden's tenures at Miami or even worse the absolute clown show at NC State under that guy with the wrap around sunglasses who just lost control of his program? For all our sakes, let us hope Coach Collins makes this work and goes on to a fulfilling successful tenure.

 

[Boaty1]

Folks: We have seen this movie before. We recruit a little better, with classes sometimes getting in the top 25 (hopefully because of 4 star guys, not just quantity). When our coaches are smarter than "their" coaches, we can win games. When the other team's talent level is superior and their coaching is not "stupid", we will have little chance of success. I am amazed at the number of our fans that think we can catch fire and become a recruiting factory. If you don't believe this, but you love the change, then you just wanted mediocrity (with occasional 9-10 win seasons) without the 3O, meaning you just hated the 3O. I don't care what competitive advantage we have, but without one, we cannot consistently compete with the factories, either in recruiting or on the field. Hype is not a competitive advantage on the field.

My goodness we were 24-25 over the last 4 years!!! Nothing we did in the 2 decades prior to that created a worse 4 year stretch. Everyone knows we need good coaching and that is why many wanted change. Johnson is responsible for a large portion of what happened Saturday afternoon.

 

[TheTechGuy]

We are done with the triple option. He will not be here

Monken will be at Illinois or Boston College next year, and we will get to see this thing play out in real time.

 

[Boaty1]

Probably.....so we will just cycle through CCG and CBL type eras

Wasn't the Chan Gailey eras and Paul Johnson eras ultimately very similar?

 

[Boaty1]

LOL...never see an option scheme, we run an option scheme now, it is just different. I guess if Coach Fridge said he wanted to come back to Tech we would say no since his base play was the triple option run out of multiple formations.......lol

If you sincerely believe this you should have been irate at Johnson's inability to develop a passing game over the past decade the way Fridge did.

 

[Pointer]

My goodness we were 24-25 over the last 4 years!!! Nothing we did in the 2 decades prior to that created a worse 4 year stretch. Everyone knows we need good coaching and that is why many wanted change. Johnson is responsible for a large portion of what happened Saturday afternoon.

But what are we over the past 5 years? Lol narratives narratives

 

[TheTechGuy]

Wasn't the Chan Gailey eras and Paul Johnson eras ultimately very similar?

Yup, Chan had multiple 10 win years, won an ACC Championship, beat a lot of ranked teams, and had a top scoring offense most years. You're right, very similar.

 

[Boaty1]

Yup, Chan had multiple 10 win years, won an ACC Championship, beat a lot of ranked teams, and had a top scoring offense most years. You're right, very similar.

I think they ended up with about the same record. One had more highs and lows while the other was up and down but in the end their records were very similar.

 

[TheTechGuy]

I think they ended up with about the same record. One had more highs and lows while the other was up and down but in the end their records were very similar.

Yes, by all means, let's throw out all the metrics that make them look dissimilar so that you can focus on one metric to push your narrative.