GT needed a change

[pbrown520]

People bitched about the extensions to CPJ....and now they are all "so what".........frikkin hypocrites.

Don't think I fit in this category. I think a 7 year contract is stupid, but I am not too worried about it. I don't think it will stop a move from happening if it becomes necessary. Of course I was also a pretty big CPJ fan as well so I wasn't bitching about any extensions.

 

[jojatk]

TStan also thinks renting out half of MBS for home games was a good idea.
There are a few other things I don't think he handled well
A seven year contract is meaningless to recruits that will be there 4 or maybe 5 years.

Yes, and I happen to agree with TStan on MBS. Just because you don't like it doesn't make it a bad idea. And just because I like it doesn't make it great idea. So we'll just have to agree to disagree on that. I understand why some think it's a bad idea, I just happen to disagree with most of the rationale I've heard. But it could absolutely backfire on us. We'll know over the next few years.

And yes, actually, A seven year contract is meaningful if you can just add. We are currently recruiting 2022 players. For the 2022 players who are here 5 years that'll mean he has a commitment from the school to be here for their full tenure. So yes, it does mean something to the recruits he's talking to right now.

Check it out. TStan said Tech’s Plan is to use "science, technology, innovation, nutrition, and the way we train" to develop athletes, admitting that we probably will not get too many 5 star recruits at Ga Tech. But we can get 2 star and 3 star athletes and train them up to perform at a 5 star level.

That is one of the outcomes for the AI2020 project.

??? I'm sorry but this doesn't make any sense to me. High level athletes are attracted to great training because they can take great advantage of it to get even better. None of them look at a place that has poor training methods and says "oh I don't need any good training, I'm set already." That just doesn't happen. His plan to use "science, technology, innovation, nutrition, and the way we train" is not even close to an admission that we won't get higher level recruits (I personally doubt we will see many 5* kids even with great recruiting but I expect we'll see more high level 3* and 4* kids). I do think, however, that he recognizes we can't recruit the volume of high level recruits that factories like Bama and Georgia and Ohio State can and for that we do have to be even smarter about developing the kids we get. But his statement was in no way an indication that he felt we had to recruit 2* athletes because that's the best we could get.

 

[Vespidae]

Yes, and I happen to agree with TStan on MBS. Just because you don't like it doesn't make it a bad idea. And just because I like it doesn't make it great idea. So we'll just have to agree to disagree on that. I understand why some think it's a bad idea, I just happen to disagree with most of the rationale I've heard. But it could absolutely backfire on us. We'll know over the next few years.

And yes, actually, A seven year contract is meaningful if you can just add. We are currently recruiting 2022 players. For the 2022 players who are here 5 years that'll mean he has a commitment from the school to be here for their full tenure. So yes, it does mean something to the recruits he's talking to right now.



??? I'm sorry but this doesn't make any sense to me. High level athletes are attracted to great training because they can take great advantage of it to get even better. None of them look at a place that has poor training methods and says "oh I don't need any good training, I'm set already." That just doesn't happen. His plan to use "science, technology, innovation, nutrition, and the way we train" is not even close to an admission that we won't get higher level recruits (I personally doubt we will see many 5* kids even with great recruiting but I expect we'll see more high level 3* and 4* kids). I do think, however, that he recognizes we can't recruit the volume of high level recruits that factories like Bama and Georgia and Ohio State can and for that we do have to be even smarter about developing the kids we get. But his statement was in no way an indication that he felt we had to recruit 2* athletes because that's the best we could get.

His words. I’m just telling you what he said. Believe him or not.

 

[CuseJacket]

People bitched about the extensions to CPJ....and now they are all "so what".........frikkin hypocrites.

Context is different, no?

Equating the last coach's contract situation several years in is different than a new coach, imo. Doesn't mean I agree with 7 years, and doesn't mean I disagree. But I definitely don't see it as apples to apples.

 

[GTBatGirl96]

It seems like if a coach has less than so many years left on his contract, it is used as a negative against him in recruiting by other schools. From TStan's perspective, it's not really a 7-year contract, it's a 3 year decision. Realistically, in order not to hinder recruiting, you almost have to have the contract out another 3 to 4 years whether you intend to fire him next year or not. If it were only a 5-year contract, he has to make a choice to extend or not a lot sooner in order to keep Collins within the 4 year end date. I could see how TStan would want to avoid that question, and associated controversy, for 3 years.

 

[year_of_the_swarm]

I'll respond with the same thing I've been saying since CPJ made his announcement..... moving away from the option is a bad decision that will cause extreme short-term pain and remove anything that was unique or special about Georgia Tech football... If Georgia Tech only wins 2 games this year, it's very hard to recover from that. GT already has high academic standards and tons of blue bloods around it that make recruiting difficult, and winning 2 games sure isn't going to be something easy to recover from.

Navy scored 45 and 42 in their first two games, and has Memphis tonight... Air Force beat Colorado in Boulder, and scored 45 in their opener. They lost a tough game to a really good Boise State team on the road. Army took Michigan to triple overtime... These are well coached, difficult to play football teams. Georgia Tech used to be difficult to play, but they gave that up. It was never about the offense, it was the defense that was costing Georgia Tech. They had the QB of the future too, Tobias Oliver. They had a loaded backfield... They were rebuilding and endured a couple of down seasons because the QB wasn't great (all due respect to TaQuon) but the defense plain sucked.

Now, GT didn't fire CPJ but you could argue he was being pushed out and now the fans are split into two separate but equally important groups (Law and Order).... People who think GT should keep running the option, and people who think GT needs to assimilate with the rest of the league.. GT chose the latter, and the extreme short-term pain is now being experienced. It's gonna be a brutal season.

 

[Whiskey_Clear]

Yes, and I happen to agree with TStan on MBS. Just because you don't like it doesn't make it a bad idea. And just because I like it doesn't make it great idea. So we'll just have to agree to disagree on that. I understand why some think it's a bad idea, I just happen to disagree with most of the rationale I've heard. But it could absolutely backfire on us. We'll know over the next few years.

And yes, actually, A seven year contract is meaningful if you can just add. We are currently recruiting 2022 players. For the 2022 players who are here 5 years that'll mean he has a commitment from the school to be here for their full tenure. So yes, it does mean something to the recruits he's talking to right now.



??? I'm sorry but this doesn't make any sense to me. High level athletes are attracted to great training because they can take great advantage of it to get even better. None of them look at a place that has poor training methods and says "oh I don't need any good training, I'm set already." That just doesn't happen. His plan to use "science, technology, innovation, nutrition, and the way we train" is not even close to an admission that we won't get higher level recruits (I personally doubt we will see many 5* kids even with great recruiting but I expect we'll see more high level 3* and 4* kids). I do think, however, that he recognizes we can't recruit the volume of high level recruits that factories like Bama and Georgia and Ohio State can and for that we do have to be even smarter about developing the kids we get. But his statement was in no way an indication that he felt we had to recruit 2* athletes because that's the best we could get.

Just because I don’t like it means it is a bad decision.

Imo

If we can’t raise necessary funding without exporting our biggest games off campus.....we in deep doo doo regardless of culture. Not sold on the idea it will help with culture or our perception of us by those in the football world.

But he gets paid the big bucks. Until he doesn’t....

 

[Heisman's Ghost]

That's the most asinine thing I've ever heard. Recruit low, polish them up, and make all Americans out of them??

I don't think he quite meant it that way even if he said it After all, how often do you take a two star high school player like Shaq Mason and turn him into an All American and NFL quality starter? (Not often) Besides, why hire someone whose whole program is going to based upon raising recruiting quality from mid 50s or so rankings to top 25? By all means though, the issue of player development should be front and center. We can, and must do better in developing players to the fullest extent of their God given talents.

 

[Pointer]

I don't think he quite meant it that way even if he said it After all, how often do you take a two star high school player like Shaq Mason and turn him into an All American and NFL quality starter? (Not often) Besides, why hire someone whose whole program is going to based upon raising recruiting quality from mid 50s or so rankings to top 25? By all means though, the issue of player development should be front and center. We can, and must do better in developing players to the fullest extent of their God given talents.

Darren Waller seems to have developed pretty well and a few other guys too. I think you're gonna see some of the guys recruited in the last few classes by the previous coaching see the NFL. Carpenter comes to mind and the swillings. I think recruiting was already getting better the last couple of classes thanks to TSTAN's reinvestment into the program.

 

[iceeater1969]

Just because I don’t like it means it is a bad decision.

Imo

If we can’t raise necessary funding without exporting our biggest games off campus.....we in deep doo doo regardless of culture. Not sold on the idea it will help with culture or our perception of us by those in the football world.

But he gets paid the big bucks. Until he doesn’t....

My $ report is coming.
Vt is also in the do as well.

 

[Heisman's Ghost]

Darren Waller seems to have developed pretty well and a few other guys too. I think you're gonna see some of the guys recruited in the last few classes by the previous coaching see the NFL. Carpenter comes to mind and the swillings. I think recruiting was already getting better the last couple of classes thanks to TSTAN's reinvestment into the program.

Darren was a classic late bloomer somewhat overshadowed by Smelter on the other side but he put on a show at the Orange Bowl.

 

[DieselTeeth]

These two star all Americans come few and far between. I can't stand when someone says... We'll look at so and so.. they turned out great. You must recruit at a high level for many years to come to fruition with a team

 

[jojatk]

Darren Waller seems to have developed pretty well and a few other guys too. I think you're gonna see some of the guys recruited in the last few classes by the previous coaching see the NFL. Carpenter comes to mind and the swillings. I think recruiting was already getting better the last couple of classes thanks to TSTAN's reinvestment into the program.

I think you’re absolutely right. I always felt that CPJ was a shrewd observer of talent and he was starting to get some needed support that he was denied by the previous AD and it was paying off. I believe, especially on defense, we are going to see that the excellent athletes like Tariq and Juanyeh and the Swillings are going to benefit from some great defensive coaching (for the record I think they were going to be good regardless of the coaching change but I do believe CGC is an uncommonly good coach on defense especially with DBs).


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[year_of_the_swarm]

Kansas, Illinois, Syracuse, Arkansas, Nebraska, Rutgers, and a few others are all great candidates for it... Of course, there are lots of mid major schools that should be doing it.

 

[slugboy]

Nebraska is already running an option-heavy scheme with Frost. Not a flexbone, but a near neighbor.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[year_of_the_swarm]

Say what? Nebraska is not running hardly anything with 3 options. They may have a few pitch plays mixed in, zone read kinda stuff, but they aren't faking a hand-off to a dive man, and running a QB and RB out wide with a keep or pitch option.

 

[slugboy]

Say what? Nebraska is not running hardly anything with 3 options. They may have a few pitch plays mixed in, zone read kinda stuff, but they aren't faking a hand-off to a dive man, and running a QB and RB out wide with a keep or pitch option.

It’s in Frost’s playbook. He used it often at UCF. RB/Tailback dive option, QB and slot back run wide with a pitch option to the slot back.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[GTRambler]

Slugboy is correct. There are variants of this type of offense.

 

[Sebastian GT]

· This rebuild was inevitable the day we hired Paul Johnson. In fact I had this same discussion with several former players back in December 2007 when it leaked that we were hiring Paul. The common theme was “this is the ultimate gamble because when it ends the rebuild could be massive if we change the offense.” There is a reason no one in a Power 5 conference has or will hire a triple option coach. Regardless of the level of success if you want to move away from that scheme it will be extremely painful. We are seeing that first hand. Recruiting will suffer if you run that scheme.

· Our offensive line is probably the worst line I have maybe ever seen at a D1 school. We have guys that just cannot block in a passing scheme. Everyone seems to want to blame Patenaude however no one mentions Brent Key. IMO at this point it’s the fault of neither of those guys. The talent and the depth is just not there. If we were running triple option and still diving at people’s ankles we might be having more success since that’s what these guys were recruited to do and have done for their entire college careers. If you watch the replays of any of our games and pay attention to the o-line it’s horrifying. I feel sorry for our QB’s

· I don’t expect to see a lot of improvement with the o-line next year unless several of our o-line recruits enroll early and go thru workouts and spring practice. I’d guess at least 3-4 of the new line recruits will have to start or play a lot next year up front. The closer to the ball you are the harder it is to come in and make an immediate impact as a freshman.

· A positive today was that most of the snaps to the QB’s were accurate. That’s a start. A bad shotgun snap to a young QB is a disaster because they have to take their eyes off what’s going on downfield and they are not experienced enough to salvage the play. They panic and take off. Those guys are already jittery because on most plays they are running for their lives anyway.

· Our defense isn’t that bad considering how weak we are on the defensive line. I like the aggressiveness. The secondary is a strength. I love the press coverage. We’re scheming around the weakness up front. We need better linebacker play though.

· I wish we already had 1 or 2 big DT commits in this class.

· I like our wide receivers. We just don’t have the time to get them the ball. It’s probably surprising to many that we have some talent at that spot since Paul never threw the ball and would have more talent if we put Tobias in the mix. Ahmarean Brown is a great player. Glad we signed him late.

· Tobias is an NFL level athlete. I hate to use this as a comparison but he’s kind of like Hines Ward. It’s time to move him to receiver the majority of the time.

· James Graham needs to be the starter from here on out. Let Lucas and Yates back him up. No need to start rotating all the time again. He has the ability. He will get better with experience. Tell him he’s the guy so he can play without looking over his shoulder. If he totally tanks then reassess.

· Gold facemasks are ugly as hell.

· I liked Paul for the most part but was disappointed with his stubbornness when it came to his offense. The thing I hated most about his tenure was how bad the defensive play was and special teams most years were terrible. We had some good years and big wins. We also had a lot of mediocrity. He wanted out. Coaching at Tech ain’t easy. He’d had enough.

· What I don’t understand is why a handful of fans are so bitter about having a new coach when Paul left of his own accord.

· I don’t expect to win another game this year and wouldn’t be surprised if we only won a couple of games next year primarily because of the line of scrimmage on both sides of the ball but mainly the offensive line. Going in I felt the over/under was 4 wins. I overestimated.

· Having said that outside of the ugag game we could win any of the remaining games if by some miracle we get good offensive line play and don’t turn it over. For that reason every game is worth watching because at any point in time that could happen. Unlikely but possible. If given the chance Graham will get better as the season moves forward.

· When Ross was trying to turn things around we played a top ten ranked South Carolina team at home in the middle of his 2nd year. I think they may have been ranked 8th. We were horrible and had been horrible for a year and half. We won 34-0. It was shocking. Of course we didn’t win another game that year except for VMI. Bottom line those guys were transforming that team up front and trying to find a QB. It took another season but we all know how that ended up. Thankfully Al Gore hadn’t invented the internet back then or Ross may not have survived the 1988 season. Lol

· We could’ve hired Nick Saban or Urban Meyer and it would not have changed anything about our current level of talent and our struggles up front. No one short of God himself was going to come in here and change the offensive scheme and win a bunch of games. This is going to suck for at least 2 years and possibly 3 but I think in year 3 we’ll start to see some real progress and hope as long as we continue to recruit better. Time will tell but I do know this. If the fan base does a total freakout to the point of damaging recruiting this will turn into a 5-8 year rebuild. Barring severe NCAA violations we aren’t firing any coaches any time soon. If you don’t believe me just look at the basketball team. Anywhere else Pastner would be toast.

· I’m disappointed in the place kicking situation. Wells was perfect last year and King has been a disaster since arriving at Tech. Kickers are strange birds. Most of it is mental. Whatever we did with Wells we shouldn’t have done. Should’ve left him alone and been thankful that they were handed a solid placekicker that had never missed a kick. Unless Wells has some off field issues there is no reason he shouldn’t be the kicker. Kickoffs as well or look at Harvin for kickoffs. King’s kickoffs are as bad as his field goal attempts. Harvin on the other hand is a stud. I guess if there was ever a year for us to have a great punter it needed to be this year.

 

[AlabamaBuzz]

· This rebuild was inevitable the day we hired Paul Johnson. In fact I had this same discussion with several former players back in December 2007 when it leaked that we were hiring Paul. The common theme was “this is the ultimate gamble because when it ends the rebuild could be massive if we change the offense.” There is a reason no one in a Power 5 conference has or will hire a triple option coach. Regardless of the level of success if you want to move away from that scheme it will be extremely painful. We are seeing that first hand. Recruiting will suffer if you run that scheme.

· Our offensive line is probably the worst line I have maybe ever seen at a D1 school. We have guys that just cannot block in a passing scheme. Everyone seems to want to blame Patenaude however no one mentions Brent Key. IMO at this point it’s the fault of neither of those guys. The talent and the depth is just not there. If we were running triple option and still diving at people’s ankles we might be having more success since that’s what these guys were recruited to do and have done for their entire college careers. If you watch the replays of any of our games and pay attention to the o-line it’s horrifying. I feel sorry for our QB’s

· I don’t expect to see a lot of improvement with the o-line next year unless several of our o-line recruits enroll early and go thru workouts and spring practice. I’d guess at least 3-4 of the new line recruits will have to start or play a lot next year up front. The closer to the ball you are the harder it is to come in and make an immediate impact as a freshman.

· A positive today was that most of the snaps to the QB’s were accurate. That’s a start. A bad shotgun snap to a young QB is a disaster because they have to take their eyes off what’s going on downfield and they are not experienced enough to salvage the play. They panic and take off. Those guys are already jittery because on most plays they are running for their lives anyway.

· Our defense isn’t that bad considering how weak we are on the defensive line. I like the aggressiveness. The secondary is a strength. I love the press coverage. We’re scheming around the weakness up front. We need better linebacker play though.

· I wish we already had 1 or 2 big DT commits in this class.

· I like our wide receivers. We just don’t have the time to get them the ball. It’s probably surprising to many that we have some talent at that spot since Paul never threw the ball and would have more talent if we put Tobias in the mix. Ahmarean Brown is a great player. Glad we signed him late.

· Tobias is an NFL level athlete. I hate to use this as a comparison but he’s kind of like Hines Ward. It’s time to move him to receiver the majority of the time.

· James Graham needs to be the starter from here on out. Let Lucas and Yates back him up. No need to start rotating all the time again. He has the ability. He will get better with experience. Tell him he’s the guy so he can play without looking over his shoulder. If he totally tanks then reassess.

· Gold facemasks are ugly as hell.

· I liked Paul for the most part but was disappointed with his stubbornness when it came to his offense. The thing I hated most about his tenure was how bad the defensive play was and special teams most years were terrible. We had some good years and big wins. We also had a lot of mediocrity. He wanted out. Coaching at Tech ain’t easy. He’d had enough.

· What I don’t understand is why a handful of fans are so bitter about having a new coach when Paul left of his own accord.

· I don’t expect to win another game this year and wouldn’t be surprised if we only won a couple of games next year primarily because of the line of scrimmage on both sides of the ball but mainly the offensive line. Going in I felt the over/under was 4 wins. I overestimated.

· Having said that outside of the ugag game we could win any of the remaining games if by some miracle we get good offensive line play and don’t turn it over. For that reason every game is worth watching because at any point in time that could happen. Unlikely but possible. If given the chance Graham will get better as the season moves forward.

· When Ross was trying to turn things around we played a top ten ranked South Carolina team at home in the middle of his 2nd year. I think they may have been ranked 8th. We were horrible and had been horrible for a year and half. We won 34-0. It was shocking. Of course we didn’t win another game that year except for VMI. Bottom line those guys were transforming that team up front and trying to find a QB. It took another season but we all know how that ended up. Thankfully Al Gore hadn’t invented the internet back then or Ross may not have survived the 1988 season. Lol

· We could’ve hired Nick Saban or Urban Meyer and it would not have changed anything about our current level of talent and our struggles up front. No one short of God himself was going to come in here and change the offensive scheme and win a bunch of games. This is going to suck for at least 2 years and possibly 3 but I think in year 3 we’ll start to see some real progress and hope as long as we continue to recruit better. Time will tell but I do know this. If the fan base does a total freakout to the point of damaging recruiting this will turn into a 5-8 year rebuild. Barring severe NCAA violations we aren’t firing any coaches any time soon. If you don’t believe me just look at the basketball team. Anywhere else Pastner would be toast.

· I’m disappointed in the place kicking situation. Wells was perfect last year and King has been a disaster since arriving at Tech. Kickers are strange birds. Most of it is mental. Whatever we did with Wells we shouldn’t have done. Should’ve left him alone and been thankful that they were handed a solid placekicker that had never missed a kick. Unless Wells has some off field issues there is no reason he shouldn’t be the kicker. Kickoffs as well or look at Harvin for kickoffs. King’s kickoffs are as bad as his field goal attempts. Harvin on the other hand is a stud. I guess if there was ever a year for us to have a great punter it needed to be this year.

Agree with a great deal of these random thoughts, but there is NO excuse for losing to the Citadel - extremely difficult transition or not.