GT Hoops - Georgia State Panthers - 9PM

gte447f

Helluva Engineer
Messages
1,086
the new stuff referenced earlier with our 5-man in the dunker spot i am curious to watch more closely. i missed several of the recent games and only saw it a couple times last night, did not get a close look. wondering if it was "princeton low." not sure, just a hunch. could be way off.
I was there live last night and saw it in person. It was an obvious departure from the high post sets we’ve been running. We did it consistently as long as Howard was in the game, and did it a few times when Saba first came in the game. I think we moved away from it after Meka came in, but we were so disjointed at that point i kinda lost track. I’m not sure whether it was a version of Princeton low. I’m not that familiar with the Princeton low series. I don’t really think so, based on the fact that the 5 was set up so low, literally behind the backboard on the baseline. But I could be wrong. I would like to watch a replay. Does anyone know where a replay is available? I would also like to hear what other posters here can share about this “dunker” spot set (I like that term).
 

augustabuzz

Helluva Engineer
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3,412
Lol. I hear this a lot. Is this really a thing? Surely they could buy a ticket to that one game for less than $1k.
NC banks bought Tech season tickets as soon as Tech joined the ACC in 1978, so that they would have the ACC Tournament tickets that went with them.
 

gt24

Jolly Good Fellow
Messages
354
I was there live last night and saw it in person. It was an obvious departure from the high post sets we’ve been running. We did it consistently as long as Howard was in the game, and did it a few times when Saba first came in the game. I think we moved away from it after Meka came in, but we were so disjointed at that point i kinda lost track. I’m not sure whether it was a version of Princeton low. I’m not that familiar with the Princeton low series. I don’t really think so, based on the fact that the 5 was set up so low, literally behind the backboard on the baseline. But I could be wrong. I would like to watch a replay. Does anyone know where a replay is available? I would also like to hear what other posters here can share about this “dunker” spot set (I like that term).
 

gt24

Jolly Good Fellow
Messages
354

based on this, it looks like dribble-drive motion (DDM). the 5-man in the dunker spot is consistently "relocating" to the weakside block on drives down the "drag zone" (the edge of the lane). we ran it last year in nov/dec and abandoned it almost entirely in ACC play. now it appears to be back.
 

Tech93

Helluva Engineer
Messages
1,240
We have to find a way to integrate Devoe and Usher offensively when they’re on the floor together. Seems like they’re trying to figure out who the floor leader should be instead of finding the right chemistry right now (that includes the other guys too). Pastner could help this by finding the right offense to match the talents of the players.
 

TooTall

Helluva Engineer
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3,289
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Vidalia
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YlJacket

Helluva Engineer
Messages
3,260
based on this, it looks like dribble-drive motion (DDM). the 5-man in the dunker spot is consistently "relocating" to the weakside block on drives down the "drag zone" (the edge of the lane). we ran it last year in nov/dec and abandoned it almost entirely in ACC play. now it appears to be back.
I think you are right about the set. We did use it some last year though I don't remember how well we did with it. Against GSU it opened up the mid range drive game for Usher and Devion in particular. Long as they didn't drive all the way to the rim they had one on one opportunities to shoot around the free throw line and they did effectively. We didn't get much of the "dunker" action I would love to have gotten. :(

It was interesting to see GSU actually overplay the 5 when he went to the elbow. They were able to generate a ton of turnovers this way. I counted at least 6 trying to get the ball to the elbow and there could well have been others. We had 23 for the game - only one less than against LSU. :oops:

I think you are right about going to a "classic" 4 out system. It should get the opposing 5 out of the lane and at least on the move so there is less help available. I would llike to see us screening for Devoe and Coleman in particular outside the 3 point line just north of foul line extended to start generating space in our sets (something we don't do well). Even if we use Devion there we can potentially get a switch to the big and allow him to go downhill. Getting switches by itself would be big anywhere if we have space.

The other thing the 4 out set should do is facilitate ball reversal which I don't think we do much - or certainly not enough. We play top of the key or one side of the court way too much. I don't recall the exact advanced stat but your chances of scoring go up exponentially the more the ball moves from side to side and I think a 4 out set would help us do that a bunch more than we do now.

One last thing - though not related to the set. Against GSU we did get got out and ran a bit - and it helps our sets immensely when we get some "easy" points. Devion and Usher in particular - and even Devoe - are really better in transition so everything we can do to get them in open court we should do. Not stupid stuff but push the ball even off of makes to see what we have. If you get Usher in particular a couple of easy makes he is a different player.
 

YlJacket

Helluva Engineer
Messages
3,260
Devoe & Deebo are shooting 50% or better from the 3pt line which are both top 10 numbers in the ACC. Khalid is better than 50% in transition baskets IMO those numbers warrant a change or at least some game by game adjustments
You are right about the 3 pt shooting percentages and even Usher is shooting .368 for the year from 3 - give him credit for improvement. GT is overall shooting .374 from 3 point land - good for 4th in the ACC as far as percentage goes. So I agree the data shows we have pretty good shooters.

I do think we have a 3 point issue though - using raw stats - GT is 13th in 3 point shots attempted so far this year and 12th in 3 point fgs made. I will throw in a couple of other stats before I make my point:

1) We are tied for the highest in the ACC for turnovers per game at 14.2 per game

2) While we are 4th in the ACC in 3 point FG%, we are 8th in the ACC in overall FG % at .452. So our 2 point FG 5 has to be in the bottom half, bordering on bottom quarter of the ACC.

3) Overall scoring we are 12th in the ACC at 69 points per game.

I don't have any overall stat on points off turnovers or points in transition but I expect we are low overall. But again I don't have a stat to prove it.

Again, these are raw stats which would change if you look at them through advanced analytics but I expect they would paint the same basic picture.

Now throwing in what my eyes tell me watching GT play, we have some capable 3 point shooters but we are not structured to take advantage of them (note we use the 3 pt shot less than almost anyone in the ACC). The way we are running our offense through a high elbow set looking for cuts or drives to the basket has caused us to turn the ball over more than we should or really can handle - and has forced our guards/wings into contested drives as a core part of the offense with the resultant low 2 pt shooting percentage.

The hope is that we can drive and kick for open threes but right now with the opposing 5 sitting in the lane helping, there is no reason for the wing defenders to help so no open kicks and we generally devolve into Devoe taking the ball at the top of the key and trying to drive to make something happen. He is the guy you want to be on the wing receiving the ball to shoot. He has done yeoman's work scoring so far this year but it is often a one on 2 or 3 adventure in the paint.

So the data so far tells us we shoot the 3 well enough for it to be a real weapon in our offense but the rest of the stats tell us there is something amis in the way we are structuring our offense to take advantage of that shooting. So go back to GT24 and ESPN's point that we need to change the basic set to one that works better for the players we do have. Could be the 4 out, could be something else, but the system we are running isn't generating the stats we want to see. Or need to see.
 
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