GT Hoops General Topics

[dtm1997]

 

[Northeast Stinger]

I'm a little surprised this quote has not gotten more of a response. Coach is squarely addressing player selfishness which seems to me to be running amuck. There is a balance and tension between the interests of the individual and the interests of the group. That tension has existed since men stood upright.

But so much of the changes we are seeing to college athletics seem to center on this cutting edge point, an extreme shift in priority towards the interests of the individual at the expense of the group. Have we reached a point where fans and coaches care more about team identity than the players? If so, what does that mean for fans and coaches? Is it just business as usual for fans or are these forces cracking the foundation?

Hey, we all look out for ourselves, but we don't exist in a social vacuum so we also look out for those around us. It is actually in our self-interests to regard the interests of the group. There is a balance and that balance is how we determine what we want and what we do. What is considered normal in this social calculus seems to have shifted markedly, at least that is how it looks to me.

How stable is a social endeavor (like a team sport) when the individuals make decisions without any regard to the impact on the group?

What I also heard in this is “we will do the right thing even if others don’t.”

 

[78pike]

I'm a little surprised this quote has not gotten more of a response. Coach is squarely addressing player selfishness which seems to me to be running amuck. There is a balance and tension between the interests of the individual and the interests of the group. That tension has existed since men stood upright.

But so much of the changes we are seeing to college athletics seem to center on this cutting edge point, an extreme shift in priority towards the interests of the individual at the expense of the group. Have we reached a point where fans and coaches care more about team identity than the players? If so, what does that mean for fans and coaches? Is it just business as usual for fans or are these forces cracking the foundation?

Hey, we all look out for ourselves, but we don't exist in a social vacuum so we also look out for those around us. It is actually in our self-interests to regard the interests of the group. There is a balance and that balance is how we determine what we want and what we do. What is considered normal in this social calculus seems to have shifted markedly, at least that is how it looks to me.

How stable is a social endeavor (like a team sport) when the individuals make decisions without any regard to the impact on the group?

I would venture to say when those individual decisions adversely affect the group as a whole then it is up to our coach to address it, most likely with a loss of playing time. Perhaps that is what we saw last season with Amaree Abram. Not saying that was the reason for his playing time disappearing but using it as a possible example.

 

[78pike]

Perhaps having schools pay players is better than the current NIL crap. The school could then sign players to multi year contracts, negating the madness that is the transfer potal.

The problem with NIL is that it allows the rich to just get richer. What I would like to see happen if we are going down the rabbit hole of college sports assimilating the pros is to set an NIL salary cap that is the same for all schools. Each school is responsible for getting the money to fulfill that cap by whatever means they can and those schools that can't well that's their problem. So let's say the NIL cap is set at $10 million for basketball. Each school has to manage that amount however they see fit. Once they hit that cap then they have no more money to go out and procure that next transfer portal star. And enforce that cap with some steep penalties for those schools that try to find a way around it by lowering that team's cap if they get caught cheating. We need to find some way to regulate NIL or it will just be the same few teams with deep pockets that dominate every year.

Look no further than Alabama as a team with deep pockets that has used NIL to become one of the top teams in the country. Not long ago, before NIL, Bama was just another also ran in the college basketball world. Now they are pulling in star after star to come to beautiful downtown Tuscaloosa to play ball. True they have a decent coach, but they have had good coaches before. The difference is what they are able to pay these players because nobody is moving to Tuscaloosa if they don't have to. Especially African American (is that politically correct?) basketball players who will have to deal with the biggest ensemble of rednecks in the entire country.

 

[RonJohn]

The problem with NIL is that it allows the rich to just get richer. What I would like to see happen if we are going down the rabbit hole of college sports assimilating the pros is to set an NIL salary cap that is the same for all schools. Each school is responsible for getting the money to fulfill that cap by whatever means they can and those schools that can't well that's their problem. So let's say the NIL cap is set at $10 million for basketball. Each school has to manage that amount however they see fit. Once they hit that cap then they have no more money to go out and procure that next transfer portal star. And enforce that cap with some steep penalties for those schools that try to find a way around it by lowering that team's cap if they get caught cheating. We need to find some way to regulate NIL or it will just be the same few teams with deep pockets that dominate every year.

Look no further than Alabama as a team with deep pockets that has used NIL to become one of the top teams in the country. Not long ago, before NIL, Bama was just another also ran in the college basketball world. Now they are pulling in star after star to come to beautiful downtown Tuscaloosa to play ball. True they have a decent coach, but they have had good coaches before. The difference is what they are able to pay these players because nobody is moving to Tuscaloosa if they don't have to. Especially African American (is that politically correct?) basketball players who will have to deal with the biggest ensemble of rednecks in the entire country.

In order to have a salary cap, you would need either a lot of governmental exemptions or a collective bargaining agreement with a players' union, or both.

 

[Jack]

one could make an interesting argument that corporate social hierarchies may have a lot to do with the shift in broader social priorities. For individuals to look out for the group, they have to see that the group is looking out for them. So, looking to corporate social norms maybe be eyeing a source of problems and not favorable equilibria.

But the points is that Coach has stated that even when he is looking out for the players, he doesn't feel like this is always reciprocated. Does coaching movement even loosely approximate that rate of player movement at this time?

This NIL mess might be described as,
in a nicer way, a cloister of all aspects mating. Or, a cluster you know what.

 

[GTpdm]

This NIL mess might be described as,
in a nicer way, a cloister of all aspects mating. Or, a cluster you know what.

Or, the sound a flock of upset chickens makes: a flustered cluck.

 

[forensicbuzz]

Excellent post Wasp. Selfishness has taken over everything.

Let's start with CFB coaches wanting $14MM/year.

 

[tbglover]

The problem with NIL is that it allows the rich to just get richer. What I would like to see happen if we are going down the rabbit hole of college sports assimilating the pros is to set an NIL salary cap that is the same for all schools. Each school is responsible for getting the money to fulfill that cap by whatever means they can and those schools that can't well that's their problem. So let's say the NIL cap is set at $10 million for basketball. Each school has to manage that amount however they see fit. Once they hit that cap then they have no more money to go out and procure that next transfer portal star. And enforce that cap with some steep penalties for those schools that try to find a way around it by lowering that team's cap if they get caught cheating. We need to find some way to regulate NIL or it will just be the same few teams with deep pockets that dominate every year.

Look no further than Alabama as a team with deep pockets that has used NIL to become one of the top teams in the country. Not long ago, before NIL, Bama was just another also ran in the college basketball world. Now they are pulling in star after star to come to beautiful downtown Tuscaloosa to play ball. True they have a decent coach, but they have had good coaches before. The difference is what they are able to pay these players because nobody is moving to Tuscaloosa if they don't have to. Especially African American (is that politically correct?) basketball players who will have to deal with the biggest ensemble of rednecks in the entire country.

Herb Jones was a 5 star who went to Alabama before NIL. So did Collin Sexton. They have gotten players especially since Nate Oats got there instituting a style that players enjoy playing. NIL has enhanced that the last couple of years but let's not pretend as though it's the only reason why they are a ranked team with talent. If it was solely about having deep pockets Kansas would have had depth last season and Oklahoma St wouldn't have a new coach this season.

 

[MWBATL]

Herb Jones was a 5 star who went to Alabama before NIL. So did Collin Sexton. They have gotten players especially since Nate Oats got there instituting a style that players enjoy playing. NIL has enhanced that the last couple of years but let's not pretend as though it's the only reason why they are a ranked team with talent. If it was solely about having deep pockets Kansas would have had depth last season and Oklahoma St wouldn't have a new coach this season.

Before there was NIL there were dirty handshakes....Bama got those guys with what passes for NIL money now.

 

[tbglover]

Before there was NIL there were dirty handshakes....Bama got those guys with what passes for NIL money now.

So Alabama was getting high level recruits prior to NIL which was my point, dirty handshake or not

 

[78pike]

So Alabama was getting high level recruits prior to NIL which was my point, dirty handshake or not

And my point was the recruits were coming there for the money be it NIL or dirty handshakes. Thus the rich get richer statement.

 

[Peacone36]

And my point was the recruits were coming there for the money be it NIL or dirty handshakes. Thus the rich get richer statement.

why do you think Duke got the top three players in a class when Kansas was offering at least one of those players at least six figures? Exotic Durham NC?

 

[orientalnc]

Exotic Durham NC?

It could be he wants to be near Pizza Toro, the best pizza in the world.

 

[Peacone36]

It could be he wants to be near Pizza Toro, the best pizza in the world.

You tell me now after I moved back to the NE. Dang it.

I always found pizza in NC to be too doughy. I like thin crust with toppings to the edge.

This is going to derail this thread in a hurry.

 

[orientalnc]

I always found pizza in NC to be too doughy. I like thin crust with toppings to the edge.

You would love Pizza Toro. Wood fired thin crust and fresh stuff piled on top.

 

[kg01]

You tell me now after I moved back to the NE. Dang it.

I always found pizza in NC to be too doughy. I like thin crust with toppings to the edge.

This is going to derail this thread in a hurry.

Nothing worse than doughy pizza. I have no idea how or why deep dish "pizza" became a thing. It's basically a freaking casserole.

 

[Northeast Stinger]

You tell me now after I moved back to the NE. Dang it.

I always found pizza in NC to be too doughy. I like thin crust with toppings to the edge.

This is going to derail this thread in a hurry.

3 things can derail a thread, er, pizza:

Too much cheese, too much tomato sauce, too doughy crust.

 

[Peacone36]

3 things can derail a thread, er, pizza:

Too much cheese, too much tomato sauce, too doughy crust.

I like extra sauce. But as I get older I’m over crusty pizza

 

[Northeast Stinger]

I like extra sauce. But as I get older I’m over crusty pizza

For me it’s all about the crust. If pizza has hard crust or doughy or chewy crust or soggy crust I might as well ditch the pizza and do a charcuterie board or an hors d’oeuvre plate.

Pizzas used to be better it seems. They are such a popular food item it feels like there are ten times as many today than 20 years ago but the quality has gone down.