Great AJC Article

[Dinner_Jacket]

Citadel Loss:
We had 60+ players on the team who had played option football or defended against the option for 2 years or more (CPJ kids).
TFG had no clue how to stop the option.
Pretty much every kid on both sidelines and the entire Citadel coaching staff knew how to stop the option because they practiced against it everyday.
TFG could have let David Curry call defense and we would have won.

 

[GCdaJuiceMan]

What comment you’re referring?

His comments on the evaluation process. Specifically making sure we have multiple layers of evaluation on players that fit into what they are doing. I think this approach will hopefully lead to recruiting better fits for the scheme we’re using and hopefully there isn’t any sort of choosing one guy over another due to the star rating, for example.

 

[UgaBlows]

OMG people! Enough with the OL weights, nobody fking cares anymore, lets focus on the now and what we have moving forward please, for the love of all that is good and holy!

 

[iopjacket]

Zion?

Matrix

 

[DiffusedAcorn]

Looks like Tarzan, plays like Jane.

You can't just sneak in a Kevin Costner quote like that and expect us not to notice

 

[Northeast Stinger]

But what would we do with all the unused bandwidth?
Think of the filler those extraneous, wasted posts have provided and the hours of petulant folderol happily spent pouring over pointless minutiae.

We clearly have maximized hours of keyboard warrior interplay, and gobbled tons of phone data, making the world a safer place for Tech frustration and vituperation.

We all owe Collins our deep gratitude for a job well done.

 

[Randy Carson]

You can't just sneak in a Kevin Costner quote like that and expect us not to notice

Blind Side.

 

[Jim Prather]

Blind Side.

Wow, just wow. That quote goes back to the Cleveland Browns’ owner, Paul Brown, in the early 70’s

 

[Randy Carson]

Wow, just wow. That quote goes back to the Cleveland Browns’ owner, Paul Brown, in the early 70’s

Just giving another pop culture reference point. And it gives me a chance to mention Sandra Bullock.

 

[takethepoints]

Johnson knew what he had coming back when he picked the end of the 2018 season to retire. He lost all those starters on D (who weren't that great anyway) and his starting QB on offense. And who recruited those guys? Johnson might have won 4 games in 2019 with that team. Then the schedules got harder. He knew when to retire, but to place all the blame on Collins as people do just shows a lack of football knowledge.

This, as I've pointed out before, is just plain silly. In 2019 Paul would have had: Oliver and Graham at QB, the Two-Headed Monster (one of whom is now second string RB for the 49ers) at BB, Cottrell (another pro) and either Smith or Malloy at AB, Sanders and Carter at WR, 3 of 5 OLs back and plenty of new kids coming up, and D under Woody for the second year. If I took over as coach and ran the spread option, I could have won 7 games with that outfit. Paul would have probably won 7- 9. There are plenty of reasons why Paul retired, but a lack of returning talent was not one of them.

This really irks me. TFG took an outfit that, used wisely, could have won 6 games even in transition. All you have too do is watch the highlights of the NCState game to see what could have been. But instead of a run heavy O he wanted to have Tech go immediately to an O that the personnel didn't fit, I think largely because he wanted to change the school's recruiting "image". I admit that this is speculation on my part and that OL injuries had a role to play, but there it is. We could have been better in 2019 and then slowly transformed ourselves using Sims and letting him run more.

 

[gorcone]

This, as I've pointed out before, is just plain silly. In 2019 Paul would have had: Oliver and Graham at QB, the Two-Headed Monster (one of whom is now second string RB for the 49ers) at BB, Cottrell (another pro) and either Smith or Malloy at AB, Sanders and Carter at WR, 3 of 5 OLs back and plenty of new kids coming up, and D under Woody for the second year. If I took over as coach and ran the spread option, I could have won 7 games with that outfit. Paul would have probably won 7- 9. There are plenty of reasons why Paul retired, but a lack of returning talent was not one of them.

This really irks me. TFG took an outfit that, used wisely, could have won 6 games even in transition. All you have too do is watch the highlights of the NCState game to see what could have been. But instead of a run heavy O he wanted to have Tech go immediately to an O that the personnel didn't fit, I think largely because he wanted to change the school's recruiting "image". I admit that this is speculation on my part and that OL injuries had a role to play, but there it is. We could have been better in 2019 and then slowly transformed ourselves using Sims and letting him run more.

Amen!

 

[GTRambler]

This, as I've pointed out before, is just plain silly. In 2019 Paul would have had: Oliver and Graham at QB, the Two-Headed Monster (one of whom is now second string RB for the 49ers) at BB, Cottrell (another pro) and either Smith or Malloy at AB, Sanders and Carter at WR, 3 of 5 OLs back and plenty of new kids coming up, and D under Woody for the second year. If I took over as coach and ran the spread option, I could have won 7 games with that outfit. Paul would have probably won 7- 9. There are plenty of reasons why Paul retired, but a lack of returning talent was not one of them.

This really irks me. TFG took an outfit that, used wisely, could have won 6 games even in transition. All you have too do is watch the highlights of the NCState game to see what could have been. But instead of a run heavy O he wanted to have Tech go immediately to an O that the personnel didn't fit, I think largely because he wanted to change the school's recruiting "image". I admit that this is speculation on my part and that OL injuries had a role to play, but there it is. We could have been better in 2019 and then slowly transformed ourselves using Sims and letting him run more.

Plus, TFG implemented a big load of silly, superfluous stuff during his first year as head coach after what he proclaimed was the “huge transition” from CPJ.

New stuff like:

— The ATL and 404 logos, with their associated marketing, branding, and advertising.

— The conspicuous frantic waving of “$ Down” (Money Down) signs on the sideline.

— The Waffle House take-out cup.

— The “Above the Line” (ATL) published depth charts.

— The barbell-lifting player(s) on the sideline as part of the team’s pre-game warmups.

— The synchronized dancing by the backup players on the sideline during the games. Even (and especially) when they were losing.

And other supposedly “elite” stuff.

Coach Paul Johnson didn’t care about any of that Bullschlitz stuff. He was a real football coach.

 

[billga99]

Going with Collins was obviously a major risk. But I do think it was an attempt to get GT Football to an elite (hate to use that word with Collins mentioned) status. He pushed marketing and recruiting which are a big part of that. But at the end, you still have to coach up your players and/or have a very strong staff to do that. A big part of that is evaluation of your talent and figuring out schemes to maximize their skills. It is also the ability to change game plans during a game to counter the opponents moves. So I think the strategy was decent IF you also had coaches that could actually up the skills of their players. With Collins history as a defense coordinator, my guess is they assume he could still succeed as a hands on coach. The marketing hype and improve recruiting did work initially. But the coaching was a dismal failure. With Key, we definitely are going back to fundamental hands on coaching. The jury is definitely out if he and his staff can recruit enough talent and coach them up to compete effectively with everyone on their schedule including Georgia and Clemson.

 

[4shotB]

Plus, TFG implemented a big load of silly, superfluous stuff during his first year as head coach after what he proclaimed was the “huge transition” from CPJ.

New stuff like:

— The ATL and 404 logos, with their associated marketing, branding, and advertising.

— The conspicuous frantic waving of “$ Down” (Money Down) signs on the sideline.

— The Waffle House take-out cup.

— The “Above the Line” (ATL) published depth charts.

— The barbell-lifting player(s) on the sideline as part of the team’s pre-game warmups.

— The synchronized dancing by the backup players on the sideline during the games. Even (and especially) when they were losing.

And other supposedly “elite” stuff.

Coach Paul Johnson didn’t care about any of that Bullschlitz stuff. He was a real football coach.

Wow! That is incredible. Not saying that you are making this up as we all saw it ourselves too. I think you will be pleased to know he was fired awhile back and, as of September 26 of this past season, is no longer the head FB coach at Tech!!! They have hired Brent Key to replace him. He was the interim coach after TFG was fired and used to play OL at Tech back in the day.

 

[Northeast Stinger]

This, as I've pointed out before, is just plain silly. In 2019 Paul would have had: Oliver and Graham at QB, the Two-Headed Monster (one of whom is now second string RB for the 49ers) at BB, Cottrell (another pro) and either Smith or Malloy at AB, Sanders and Carter at WR, 3 of 5 OLs back and plenty of new kids coming up, and D under Woody for the second year. If I took over as coach and ran the spread option, I could have won 7 games with that outfit. Paul would have probably won 7- 9. There are plenty of reasons why Paul retired, but a lack of returning talent was not one of them.

This really irks me. TFG took an outfit that, used wisely, could have won 6 games even in transition. All you have too do is watch the highlights of the NCState game to see what could have been. But instead of a run heavy O he wanted to have Tech go immediately to an O that the personnel didn't fit, I think largely because he wanted to change the school's recruiting "image". I admit that this is speculation on my part and that OL injuries had a role to play, but there it is. We could have been better in 2019 and then slowly transformed ourselves using Sims and letting him run more.

Thank you for this.

Frankly it could just be reposted every time a bs argument cranks up about “nothing in the cupboard” or “leaving because there was no talent left on the team” or any other such bs.

As you point out, Collins sabotaged any possible success this team might have had by trying to force round pegs into square holes.

Collins failed utterly and completely. Any attempt to justify his failure by blaming Johnson just needs to have this response tacked onto it.

For as many times as it takes. Until it takes.

 

[DiffusedAcorn]

Blind Side.

Also Draft Day

 

[Ibeeballin]

This, as I've pointed out before, is just plain silly. In 2019 Paul would have had: Oliver and Graham at QB, the Two-Headed Monster (one of whom is now second string RB for the 49ers) at BB, Cottrell (another pro) and either Smith or Malloy at AB, Sanders and Carter at WR, 3 of 5 OLs back and plenty of new kids coming up, and D under Woody for the second year. If I took over as coach and ran the spread option, I could have won 7 games with that outfit. Paul would have probably won 7- 9. There are plenty of reasons why Paul retired, but a lack of returning talent was not one of them.

This really irks me. TFG took an outfit that, used wisely, could have won 6 games even in transition. All you have too do is watch the highlights of the NCState game to see what could have been. But instead of a run heavy O he wanted to have Tech go immediately to an O that the personnel didn't fit, I think largely because he wanted to change the school's recruiting "image". I admit that this is speculation on my part and that OL injuries had a role to play, but there it is. We could have been better in 2019 and then slowly transformed ourselves using Sims and letting him run more.

A lot of taking the future placing in what would’ve been.

From that point, what skillset Mason & Cottrell showed to be pros? Mason became intriguing bc what he showed as inside zone runner and a pass blocker. Cottrell showed what he do as a gunner.

3 out 5 OL? Braun was leaving regardless. This has been echoed numerous times including by own father. Kenny Cooper had hip surgery. Who is to say he would be able even play under style again. You putting 7-9 wins on an OL of Quinney, Clark, Minihan, Morgan, Jump & McKeehan?

My favorite is the QB convo: what did we see TO that would make us believe he would run the offense properly to win? He refused to pitch under CPJ and he was worst passer than the previous QBs. Also, hindsight tell us there is very strong chance Graham wouldn’t even be a part the team.

Nothing about the trajectory of the team suggested 6-7 wins

 

[stylee]

A lot of taking the future placing in what would’ve been.

From that point, what skillset Mason & Cottrell showed to be pros? Mason became intriguing bc what he showed as inside zone runner and a pass blocker. Cottrell showed what he do as a gunner.

3 out 5 OL? Braun was leaving regardless. This has been echoed numerous times including by own father. Kenny Cooper had hip surgery. Who is to say he would be able even play under style again. You putting 7-9 wins on an OL of Quinney, Clark, Minihan, Morgan, Jump & McKeehan?

My favorite is the QB convo: what did we see TO that would make us believe he would run the offense properly to win? He refused to pitch under CPJ and he was worst passer than the previous QBs. Also, hindsight tell us there is very strong chance Graham wouldn’t even be a part the team.

Nothing about the trajectory of the team suggested 6-7 wins

You’re dead-on about Oliver being the worst passer. I don’t know if it’s true that he *refused* to pitch; instead - and perhaps strengthening your point - he simply did not run as many true option plays as the other QBs. That’s not to say he never ran any, because he did. He even ran some triple. But most of Oliver’s yardage came off of either (1) true QB sweeps, or (2) the “QB zone option” that was and is a staple for the academies but which Paul rarely ran prior to the Marshall/Oliver era. The QB has the nominal choice to pitch it on this play but it’s mostly about picking a lane for the QB to hit.

Had Oliver won the job, we would have probably been close to a “spread double wing” team (those who watch high school ball have probably seen the double wing). I don’t think Paul felt as comfortable with that style, but Oliver’s uncanny knack for breaking tackles and beating angles may have given him the edge, and we’d have gone down to 7-9 passing attempts per game. Notably, though, that even with an offense Paul probably didn’t like as much, the performance was on an objective upswing from 2016 to 2018, with each year better than the previous one.

A healthy Lucas Johnson would probably give us a more Tevin or Vad-flavored offense. Graham would have probably resulted in something more like the Nesbit era.

On Mason, you’re dead wrong. He averaged 6.1 yards per carry as a freshman, despite the lack of a consistent passing threat. His yards came off of plenty of different looks: lots of the called inside zone dive, yes, but also midline, inside veer, the speed option. It was overwhelmingly obvious he was a special player from the start. The interesting question is how we’d accommodate him, a possibly healthy Benson, and Howard going forward. But he was a beast, and was obviously so even before he was running the “true” inside zone.

The whole thing is just imagination, of course, but the real issue in a CPJ 2019 wasnt going to be offense. Woody’s first year was the worst in the CPJ era, I believe. So even if we had a second consecutive top-20 OFEI performance, it might not have been enough to go very far.

 

[takethepoints]

A lot of taking the future placing in what would’ve been.

From that point, what skillset Mason & Cottrell showed to be pros? Mason became intriguing bc what he showed as inside zone runner and a pass blocker. Cottrell showed what he do as a gunner.

3 out 5 OL? Braun was leaving regardless. This has been echoed numerous times including by own father. Kenny Cooper had hip surgery. Who is to say he would be able even play under style again. You putting 7-9 wins on an OL of Quinney, Clark, Minihan, Morgan, Jump & McKeehan?

My favorite is the QB convo: what did we see TO that would make us believe he would run the offense properly to win? He refused to pitch under CPJ and he was worst passer than the previous QBs. Also, hindsight tell us there is very strong chance Graham wouldn’t even be a part the team.

Nothing about the trajectory of the team suggested 6-7 wins

Well, you can make another set of circumstances if you wish. Perhaps the entire team would have transferred in disgust, though that's looking ahead three years, of course. But if Cooper had not been able to play and Braun transferred, the starting OL would have been: Quinney , DeFoor (he'ed already transferred in, remember?), Minihan at center (the position he was recruited for), Hansen, and (probably) Smith or Lay (remember Ray Beno?) or Defoor, if Clark ended up at guard. I'd go to war with that group in a spread option. There would have been some mix and match - the Morgans or Mckeehan might have broken in - but overall plenty good enough for a spread option line after a break-in game or two.

As to Oliver: watch the VT game again or his stretches in other games. He knew how to run the O, but Paul, wisely, kept the ball in his hands. After Mason, he would have been the most talented runner on the team. But I think Graham would have started. He was the more talented player at QB, largely because he could throw better and run efficiently. Hindsight in this case is failing you, btw. He didn't leave Tech because of Paul; he left Tech because of TFG.

Well, enough. I don't think your case is particularly strong, but both outlooks are speculative. Paul said at the timed that he thought the team had the talent to win 7 games and he was talking about in transition. I think he was a bit optimistic - though Monken would have - but we'll never know.

 

[Ibeeballin]

Well, you can make another set of circumstances if you wish. Perhaps the entire team would have transferred in disgust, though that's looking ahead three years, of course. But if Cooper had not been able to play and Braun transferred, the starting OL would have been: Quinney , DeFoor (he'ed already transferred in, remember?), Minihan at center (the position he was recruited for), Hansen, and (probably) Smith or Lay (remember Ray Beno?) or Defoor, if Clark ended up at guard. I'd go to war with that group in a spread option. There would have been some mix and match - the Morgans or Mckeehan might have broken in - but overall plenty good enough for a spread option line after a break-in game or two.

As to Oliver: watch the VT game again or his stretches in other games. He knew how to run the O, but Paul, wisely, kept the ball in his hands. After Mason, he would have been the most talented runner on the team. But I think Graham would have started. He was the more talented player at QB, largely because he could throw better and run efficiently. Hindsight in this case is failing you, btw. He didn't leave Tech because of Paul; he left Tech because of TFG.

Well, enough. I don't think your case is particularly strong, but both outlooks are speculative. Paul said at the timed that he thought the team had the talent to win 7 games and he was talking about in transition. I think he was a bit optimistic - though Monken would have - but we'll never know.

The OL was the worst it has ever been go into the off-season of 2018 and you think your 7-9 win case is strong losing both Braun & Bryan? Gimme the drugs you’re on. I’ve watched and dissected the VT games numerous times. Are you really under the impression that was going to be the norm?

As for the Parker Braun situation. I’ll let his dad tell you again why he left:

See this is why I haven't tried to explain before now. I am not 'offended' I'm not twelve, you said you didn't 'get it' so I tried to clarify.

When both Trey and Parker had completed their original commitment to GT ( Football in exchange for Undergrad) they both looked for The Best Masters Option for Them, since they both had some eligibility left. Then they explored the opportunity costs of staying vs. going. For Trey the decision was to stay. For Parker, other paths seemed to hold more promise. This idea that this is somehow a referendum on coaching before or after is ridiculous. Remember the goal in this process is to somehow get the best possible outcome (as you see it) in exchange for the work you do. This is no different. Now in order to have a true discussion about the merits of each outcome, you must answer all variables. the further away from it you are the less variables you know. In this example, I may have a clearer understanding of what some of the variables are , you being further removed see things less clear.

But, seriously, how great is it that, as a reward for three years of hard work, effort, and scholarship, in a time of question, turmoil, and transition, Parker was able to pick up his head and see that his hard work was recognized. That people had seen and valued his abilities. Then the world opened in terms of scholarship, playing, and lifestyle. now he gets to live in two of the greatest cities in US if not the world. He will play against 3 of the top conferences, in many of the great stadiums in the country. He'll have the exact Masters he wants. And if everything goes very well an opportunity to compete at the highest levels in college and beyond.

So, I have rambled on, mostly because I enjoyed this board and wanted to clarify this move. We love GT, we have loved GT, and we will love GT. I hope this sheds a little light on the subject.

to quote one of the great 20th century Poets:
LOVE, PEACE, and CHICKEN GREASE!

We know the last 4yrs been bad, but we don’t don’t have to prop up this delusion of what a CPJ team would been