Game Thread - @ UGA, 11/20/2019

[bobongo]

It actually isn't a strawman argument when there are people calling it the most important game of the year. Most also means something.

I agree that it is one of our more important out of conference games. Out of conference basketball games in November have a limited value, though. That is the point.

I've never had the thought that it didn't matter that we were that bad in 2009 because we beat Georgia, for example. Going 2-14 in the conference is much more important than that win. Football would be different. If we beat them in football this year it would be special and erase some really bad memories.

It is by far THE most important out-of-conference game, and don't you forget it.

 

[GTJake]

You don't judge a season outlook by one game, but, read the Mark Bradley column in today's AJC, IMO Bradley get's it right on this one ... get old, stay old is not the current landscape of successful college basketball programs !
Pastner needs to recruit at the top level, we were told he is a recruiter and we are still waiting ...

 

[Buzzbomb]

I can’t fully agree with Bark Madly on the current climate. There are the haves and have nots. The blue bloods like UK where he’s from, yes. The GT’s, ND’s(even with their national recruiting base)must cover the occasional one or two and done, with the depth and experience of 4 year players who have developed over time.

 

[GTJake]

I can’t fully agree with Bark Madly on the current climate. There are the haves and have nots. The blue bloods like UK where he’s from, yes. The GT’s, ND’s(even with their national recruiting base)must cover the occasional one or two and done, with the depth and experience of 4 year players who have developed over time.

The point I think Bradley was also trying to make is the fact that the one-and-dones also put your school on the recruiting map and the superstars create a buzz around the program.
I didn't go back and reread the article, but I think it said they had the best crowd since 1981 ... and Stegman has typically over the years been a mausoleum !!

 

[kg01]

You don't judge a season outlook by one game, but, read the Mark Bradley column in today's AJC, IMO Bradley get's it right on this one ... get old, stay old is not the current landscape of successful college basketball programs !
Pastner needs to recruit at the top level, we were told he is a recruiter and we are still waiting ...

Oh Jake. Jakey Jake. First, I have no choice but to dock you 10 points for partaking in AJC drivel.

Trust me, that hurts me more than it hurts you, brother.

Second, my disclaimer. I'm no Pastner apologist. I still want him fired but, due to circumstances I know are beyond our control, I understand that's not the move right now so he has my full support.

Now, it's clear most high level programs dabble in the OaD recruiting game so, if that's what Bradley said, he's not breaking any news there. What he fails to acknowledge is, there are a lot of teams who are successful that do not ride OaD players to a large degree. MichSt, Gonzaga and UVAg to name a few.

Based on the fact that Pastner's rep as a recruiter is showing to be largely unearned, it's better for him to try the get-old/stay-old route. It is what it is.

Plus, we were missing like 2 guys and at least 1 other was injured.

Sounds like the writer was being reactionary and dismissive or was just under-informed, at best.

 

[GTJake]

Oh Jake. Jakey Jake. First, I have no choice but to dock you 10 points for partaking in AJC drivel.

Trust me, that hurts me more than it hurts you, brother.

Second, my disclaimer. I'm no Pastner apologist. I still want him fired but, due to circumstances I know are beyond our control, I understand that's not the move right now so he has my full support.

Now, it's clear most high level programs dabble in the OaD recruiting game so, if that's what Bradley said, he's not breaking any news there. What he fails to acknowledge is, there are a lot of teams who are successful that do not ride OaD players to a large degree. MichSt, Gonzaga and UVAg to name a few.

Based on the fact that Pastner's rep as a recruiter is showing to be largely unearned, it's better for him to try the get-old/stay-old route. It is what it is.

Plus, we were missing like 2 guys and at least 1 other was injured.

Sounds like the writer was being reactionary and dismissive or was just under-informed, at best.

LOL Kg, but living out here in the wild west the AJC is my main outlet for home town sports, but I do get your drift, afterall he's not referred to Bark Madley for nothing ...
On Pastner, I'm not in favor (at least for now) of his removal, but I do think he needs to start recruiting, especially the local talent or all of a sudden UGAG will be the flavor of the month and we'll be in the back seat.
Also, it seems Pastner can't catch a break, Jose not 100% and Banks with the flu was unfortunate for him.

 

[Fatmike91]

You don't judge a season outlook by one game, but, read the Mark Bradley column in today's AJC, IMO Bradley get's it right on this one ... get old, stay old is not the current landscape of successful college basketball programs !
Pastner needs to recruit at the top level, we were told he is a recruiter and we are still waiting ...

How does he get it right?

Virginia won the Natty last year, they are the poster child for "get old stay old".

The year before? Villanova...

Yes, clearly get old and stay old doesn't work in college basketball. (I am being sarcastic in case it's not completely clear). Put the AJC down please.

/

 

[kg01]

LOL Kg, but living out here in the wild west the AJC is my main outlet for home town sports, but I do get your drift, afterall he's not referred to Bark Madley for nothing ...
On Pastner, I'm not in favor (at least for now) of his removal, but I do think he needs to start recruiting, especially the local talent or all of a sudden UGAG will be the flavor of the month and we'll be in the back seat.
Also, it seems Pastner can't catch a break, Jose not 100% and Banks with the flu was unfortunate for him.

I've been told the person who writes for the Athletic does a good job on GT news.

Also, it's forbidden to talk about it but .. well, I'll just say you could PM @Peacone36 about some GT news stuff.

That's my Christmas gift to you, Jakey Jake.

 

[alagold]

This isthe type of game we need to win.
IN-STATE vs uga--can't say more than that when the 2 best players for them are from Ga, and our 2 hi scorers tonite are from out of state
Jose was hurting -that's why we have Parham I thought.
we still can't have a asst/TO ratio of 1:2 nor shoot FTs at 54% or give up 13 Off rebs. and win --even shooting well from field
I thoughts Banks was THE key to season, if he produced on Off and Def inside we are ok--we won on his FTs at ncSt and didn't here (0-4) ,sick but no depth for him

 

[GTJake]

How does he get it right?

Virginia won the Natty last year, they are the poster child for "get old stay old".

The year before? Villanova...

Yes, clearly get old and stay old doesn't work in college basketball. (I am being sarcastic in case it's not completely clear). Put the AJC down please.

/

Yes, I'll give you UVA, but without looking it up I'm pretty sure that Villanova team had a couple of current NBA players and their coach, Jay Wright, has been there for a long run and has much recruiting success.
Anyway, I'm not saying I'm a fan of the current college BBall landscape, but regardless, IMO we need to recruit at a higher level ...

 

[kg01]

Yes, I'll give you UVA, but without looking it up I'm pretty sure that Villanova team had a couple of current NBA players and their coach, Jay Wright, has been there for a long run and has much recruiting success.
Anyway, I'm not saying I'm a fan of the current college BBall landscape, but regardless, IMO we need to recruit at a higher level ...

Nova is one I forgot. They recruit at a high level but not with a lot of OaD players. Seems the OaD guys he has landed have pretty much flamed out there. They win off their multi-year guys.

Granted, the guys they land are usually 4-5 star prospects which speaks to your point that we need to be better on the trail either way.

 

[Fatmike91]

(I'm not arguing we don't need to better recruiting).

If you look at the last 4 national champions they all ran a system that is a reflection of their coach (all different, but all 3 coaches have a clear "system"). They also all relied heavily on Junior and Senior players to win.

Even UNC who you think of as a one-and-done team relied on Juniors and Seniors to win their most recent natty.

I think the AJC was just taking a pot shot at Tech.

/

 

[RamblinRed]

Duke is the last OaD type team to win a NC back in 2015.

Nova in 16' and '18, UNC in '17 and UVA in '19 were all teams led by upperclassmen that did not have any OaD players on them.

KY won a NC with a OaD type team in 2012.

This isn't to say GT doesn't need to recruit better - it does. But Bradley's basic premise is wrong. In general you are more likely to win with a talented, upperclassmen oriented team than a group of FR.

In order for Pastner to recruit better he needs to win this season. If he does it will become easier to recruit. If he doesn't he will find it hard to recruit as we are past the 'selling your vision' stage. We are now in the 'your recruiting is based on your performance' stage. This needs to be an 18+ win type team for him to likely recruit well in 2021.

While i'm not happy we lost last night i'm not yet overly discouraged. We have alot to work on, but we also need to get back healthy Jose and James and get Jordan eligible. My biggest concern right now is that i'm hoping Jose's ankle doesn't turn into what happened to Lammers his SR yr. That had a big negative impact on that team.

This is a team and a schedule that is set up to tread water a little early - especially with Jose's injury, but potentially get hot later in the year.

 

[YlJacket]

As another data point UNC won their last title with a get old strategy not really a lot of high end success with one and dones lately

 

[Vespidie]

DeVoe's last minute heroics is the only reason we were close enough to claim FTs were the issues. They obviously didn't help but it wasn't the core issue. FWIW we missed 11 FTs and they missed 8. We have a lot more issues right now than missed FTs.

As has been stated our defense is a big step down from last year right now. Last year we averaged giving up 66 points per game. 82 is way too much given our generally anemic offense. We were getting blown by routinely in this game. If that doesn't get fixed we are in a world of hurt

DeVoe hid a world of sins on the offensive end. And until the last couple of minutes we were not very good. Ball movement wasn't good so most of DeVoe's work came off of one on one moves or a single pick by Banks. More to the point beyond DeVoe no one really stepped up. We are going to have to get something from Banks, Parham and Moore. And not having the real Jose reAlly hurt. He shouldn't have played. I worry CJP will "Lammers" him.

For us to get bubbly Bubba has to be a legit threat from 3 and not get blown by all game. We need more

I like that we didn't fold in the second half. But DeVoe's last minute heroics hid a lot of ills we need to correct

All good points, but the fact remains that GT has been systemically bad at the FT line. Good teams cannot leave free points on the floor via missed FT, and for mediocre teams it is usually disastrous. We made half of our FT, and they hit on 70% while attempting nine more than us. To reject the idea that FT shooting didn't play a part in the outcome is ludicrous. If we make a few more FT, then we make the game tighter, which may have changed strategies going forward.

As for the offense, I agree that someone else needs to step up. Devoe can't be the only "go to" guy, so I'm hoping Usher can help in that regard when he's eligible, or possibly Moore, Parham, or Price. These guys have to want to step up. Alvarado's bum ankle may never fully heal, so anything we get from him would be gravy at this point. Banks tends to disappear which is disappointing, but we need him to step up his game if we expect to be successful this year.

All said, we did well to close the gap at the end because the guys didn't quit, but we need to clean up a few things before ACC play begins.

 

[lv20gt]

Get old stay old is about making sure you consistently have a core group of upperclassmen that you can lean on. It doesn't mean ignore one and done talent or not try and get guys that can contribute right away. But what you don't want to have to do as a coach is play freshmen more than they are ready. Maybe that means only playing a 5* 20 minutes a game instead of 30, or it might mean taking a guy like Moses and letting him learn for 2 years before actually. In either case, the freshman is playing what they are capable of and not needing to carry a greater load than that.

Currently we're in a decent position to reach that. Our current distribution of scholarships is as follows.

Sr - Banks, Phillips
Jr - Alvarado, Parham, Wright, Cole, Usher
Soph - Devoe, Moore, Didenko
Fr - Price, Sjolund
HS - Gigiberia, Meka, Maxwell

We'll have 4 spots for our next class, assuming the reduction sticks and Devoe stays. With how we have put together a team we can field a starting 5 after next year of Devoe, Moore, Price/Sjolund, Meka, and Gigiberia with the other one of Price/Sjolund and Maxwell coming off the bench. Lets say we start the 2021 class with something similar to what our 2020 class was. 4* point guard, a 3* Center, and 3* wing or PF. If we get that then we can go for a one and done PF or wing and still be fine. Then, after that year we can do something similar for when Devoe and company leave.

Now is that how you win ACC or NCAA Championships? Maybe not. We'd probably have to sprinkle in more guys who might go pro after 2 or 3 years to make that happen, but at the moment we shouldn't be worrying about that. We need to first become a consistent tournament team before worrying about championships.

 

[Peacone36]

Thanks, c62. If'n I can't count on no one, I know'd I can always count on you. (wha?)

But yeah, I saw they figured out a way to use Moses a bit in the 2nd. That's a good sign. I think he has the tools to be a really effective player on both ends.

I also saw enough to see Devoe played at a high level again. Still searching for the guy that kept telling us Devoe was trash all last year. Show yo'self!

Couldn't stomach much more after that. Friggin SEC network announcers.

That was Dean Keener!! GT legend

 

[kg01]

That was Dean Keener!! GT legend

Then somebody needs to kick him in the shins.

 

[glandon1960]

Get old stay old is about making sure you consistently have a core group of upperclassmen that you can lean on. It doesn't mean ignore one and done talent or not try and get guys that can contribute right away. But what you don't want to have to do as a coach is play freshmen more than they are ready. Maybe that means only playing a 5* 20 minutes a game instead of 30, or it might mean taking a guy like Moses and letting him learn for 2 years before actually. In either case, the freshman is playing what they are capable of and not needing to carry a greater load than that.

Currently we're in a decent position to reach that. Our current distribution of scholarships is as follows.

Sr - Banks, Phillips
Jr - Alvarado, Parham, Wright, Cole, Usher
Soph - Devoe, Moore, Didenko
Fr - Price, Sjolund
HS - Gigiberia, Meka, Maxwell

We'll have 4 spots for our next class, assuming the reduction sticks and Devoe stays. With how we have put together a team we can field a starting 5 after next year of Devoe, Moore, Price/Sjolund, Meka, and Gigiberia with the other one of Price/Sjolund and Maxwell coming off the bench. Lets say we start the 2021 class with something similar to what our 2020 class was. 4* point guard, a 3* Center, and 3* wing or PF. If we get that then we can go for a one and done PF or wing and still be fine. Then, after that year we can do something similar for when Devoe and company leave.

Now is that how you win ACC or NCAA Championships? Maybe not. We'd probably have to sprinkle in more guys who might go pro after 2 or 3 years to make that happen, but at the moment we shouldn't be worrying about that. We need to first become a consistent tournament team before worrying about championships.

Spot on. Great assessment. This strategy gets you a team that is in the tournament consistently (i.e. most years). It is what CJP said he wanted to do when he got here, and he said he felt is was the best way for GT to compete year-in and year-out.

You need the one/done or someone that is (and should) go pro is 2-3 years to complement them to compete for ACC title (and by extension be a top 10 team in the country).
It will be curious to see what happens at UGA - Hammonds and Edwards are likely gone after the year - what I saw on the floor in Athens last night from the rest of their team was not that impressive - I do not think UGA can consistently attract players of Edwards callibre (the UGA fans I sat next to over there last night told me they were enjoying his one season and could not believe they got him for this year).

Look at Notre Dame - they have not had many players leave early for pros. They have fielded older teams and most years are in the NCAA or at least in the discussion (last year they were decimated by injuries, so can't look at that as the norm). They need the one or two difference makers on the team to take them to the top tier of the league.

I see GT, as Pastner's teams are getting older, in similar situation.
I also agree with Red that CJP can no longer sell the 'vision', and now must recruit more based on results. Winning this year and next gives him the chance to do that.

 

[Peacone36]

I really wish you and your girlfriend (THWG16) would educate yourselves before you come here and start bumping your gums.

Another option would be to just stop posting because you have no clue what you’re talking about. ESPN has forgotten more at GT hoops than either of you will ever know.

by rule, whenever someone says “bumping your gums” I’m required to love from my belly