Game Thread - @ Pitt, 2/8/2020

[GTJake]

The up and down inconsistencies are what's so frustrating to me.
Either it's the Coach who can't prepare the team on game day or the players have issue's ... which is it.
I think this team has talent, but ...

 

[jacketup]

We've been consistent. We are 0-10 against Sagarin's Top 50. Tech is the only team in the ACC to be 0'fer against the Top 50. That's consistency.

 

[MiracleWhips]

I don't like Pastner much but I am REALLY glad you aren't the coach. Bring our best player off the bench?!?!?! SMH

Best player ? Not quite. Jose has that locked.

 

[Techster]

Something seems off with Devoe. He's in his own head right now.

 

[lv20gt]

Something seems off with Devoe. He's in his own head right now.

In his last 5 ACC he's averaging 16.6 points, 4 assists, 5 rebs, on with a FG% of 61, and 3FG% of 45. The near 4 turnovers per game is worrisome but it's about the only thing that is imo. I do think he sometimes lacks urgency (like at the end of the first half) and seems detached but he's always come off that way to me so I don't know. `

 

[Fatmike91]

We shouldn't blame this game or the way the season has gone on Devoe.

/

 

[Techster]

In his last 5 ACC he's averaging 16.6 points, 4 assists, 5 rebs, on with a FG% of 61, and 3FG% of 45. The near 4 turnovers per game is worrisome but it's about the only thing that is imo. I do think he sometimes lacks urgency (like at the end of the first half) and seems detached but he's always come off that way to me so I don't know. `

He's been up and down since his scoring tear earlier in the season. Not sure what turned for him. He'll have one or two good games, and then he'll have a really bad game.

The last 5 games he's been up and down as well. We all just saw the Pitt game. Against UVA, he shot the ball 3 times (made all 3), and turned it over 5 times (against 5 assists). He's our best scorer...he shouldn't have just 3 shots against a team like UVA. Against Pitt he had a 20+ point game, but 9 TOs. Point totals don't tell the whole story.

Maybe it's just expectations and waiting for him to be the player he was earlier in the season. We know the potential is there (we've witnessed it)...but IMO, he's hasn't turned that switch back on. It's also hard because he's playing with Alvarado who has that switch on all the time.

 

[Techster]

We shouldn't blame this game or the way the season has gone on Devoe.

/

Devoe is far from being at fault. As I touched on, it's seeing his potential, and wondering if we can get it every game. He's just a sophomore.

As the saying goes, to whom much is given, much is expected.

 

[MWBATL]

All I know is that with Devoe in the game we have a LOT more turnovers than when he sat out games. Our lowest turnover total of the year came in a game he was out, and the next game was also extremely low.

Cause and effect, or coincidence? You guys can all judge that better than I...I am just pointing out a factoid....

My own opinion is that both he and parham have been BADLY misused. Both should be getting the benefit of designed plays to free them up for looks from three. We don't do that, we let them try to create their own shots after we tell them to throw it inside. The result is turnovers instead of three point shots by our two best pure shooters....which means we lose lose.

 

[lv20gt]

The last 5 games he's been up and down as well. We all just saw the Pitt game. Against UVA, he shot the ball 3 times (made all 3), and turned it over 5 times (against 5 assists). He's our best scorer...he shouldn't have just 3 shots against a team like UVA. Against Pitt he had a 20+ point game, but 9 TOs. Point totals don't tell the whole story.

Yeah, he struggled against one of the best defensive teams in the country. That happens. Even the best players have down nights. Otherwise he had 3 20 point games and an efficient 12 point 4 assist game in a return from injury. Also, using a game where a guy scores 22 points on 70% shooting and has 7 assists as an argument for the down in an up and down is silly. The 8 turnovers is bad but come on. They don't tell the whole story either. No, he's not going to give us 20 points literally every game, but if that is what you are expecting then that is where the issue is. He's a sophomore, and not one that is dominant physically.

Pretty much all the top scorers in the ACC have games where they aren't on. Some make up for it just by chucking and getting their 15+ on 35% shooting. Mike isn't like that though. He isn't going to just force shots up when he isn't hitting them usually.

Maybe it's just expectations and waiting for him to be the player he was earlier in the season. We know the potential is there (we've witnessed it)...but IMO, he's hasn't turned that switch back on. It's also hard because he's playing with Alvarado who has that switch on all the time.

It sounds like you expect him to be a guy who gives us 20+ points every single night which is a an issue with expectation. Almost nobody does that. Earlier in the year during his stretch he still had the Arkansas 4-16 game, and he was also playing every other game against Elon and BCU. What changed is he's going against ACC teams every game so he'll have games where his shot isn't falling and he's not able to be as effective. Also, Jose has his games where he struggles as well. Pitt, UL, ND the first time.

 

[GTJake]

It sounds like you expect him to be a guy who gives us 20+ points every single night which is a an issue with expectation. Almost nobody does that. Earlier in the year during his stretch he still had the Arkansas 4-16 game, and he was also playing every other game against Elon and BCU. What changed is he's going against ACC teams every game so he'll have games where his shot isn't falling and he's not able to be as effective. Also, Jose has his games where he struggles as well. Pitt, UL, ND the first time.[/QUOTE]

I get what your saying, it makes sense, but I think there is something else with Devoe, either he's frustrated with Pastner's offense or there is a chemistry issue.
We'll probably never know, but he just doesn't seem (including body language) like the same player from earlier in the season ...

 

[Techster]

Yeah, he struggled against one of the best defensive teams in the country. That happens. Even the best players have down nights. Otherwise he had 3 20 point games and an efficient 12 point 4 assist game in a return from injury. Also, using a game where a guy scores 22 points on 70% shooting and has 7 assists as an argument for the down in an up and down is silly. The 8 turnovers is bad but come on. They don't tell the whole story either. No, he's not going to give us 20 points literally every game, but if that is what you are expecting then that is where the issue is. He's a sophomore, and not one that is dominant physically.

Pretty much all the top scorers in the ACC have games where they aren't on. Some make up for it just by chucking and getting their 15+ on 35% shooting. Mike isn't like that though. He isn't going to just force shots up when he isn't hitting them usually.



It sounds like you expect him to be a guy who gives us 20+ points every single night which is a an issue with expectation. Almost nobody does that. Earlier in the year during his stretch he still had the Arkansas 4-16 game, and he was also playing every other game against Elon and BCU. What changed is he's going against ACC teams every game so he'll have games where his shot isn't falling and he's not able to be as effective. Also, Jose has his games where he struggles as well. Pitt, UL, ND the first time.

No, I expect a player of his caliber to play more consistently. I'm not trying to disparage him because he's still our most talented player, and he's one of ours...but the fact remains, regardless of whether he's playing against UVA or Pitt or Morehouse, our best player should rise to the occassion. Sure some teams may defend against his style better, but look at the season in its entirety...which it looks like you fail to do. I don't expect him to have a 20+ point game every night, but I do expect him to make his presence known in a positive direction.

When you say "what changed is he's going against ACC teams" you make my point. Alvarado may not pour in the points every game, but he affects the game in a positive direction when he's in...whether it's in assists or steals or doing the little things. Wright has tailed off a bit, but in terms of consistency, he's been our most consistent player all season even in ACC play.

Listen, I'm not the only who's making this observation. Devoe is still our most talented player, but something just appears to be "off" with him. I won't say it's to the degree that some are making it out to be, but it's there. If you don't see it...fine. You're welcome to your opinion. I'm sticking to what I along with others are seeing.

 

[Supersizethatorder-mutt]

Devoe to me, at least when he's on and really into it, is a great shooter, but he sure doesn't seem to be a good ball-handler. Unfortunately Jose also goes into lapses of very sloppy ball handling. I could tell at the top of the game Saturday that it was going to be a bad game in the turnover category, because they just looked frantic going up and down the court. I remember saying that at the time in Swarm Chat. Sloppy dribbling and unfocused passing did them in, as it has in every high turnover game. They don't necessarily need to slow down, but they sure do need to calm down.....AND FOCUS !!!

 

[lv20gt]

No, I expect a player of his caliber to play more consistently. I'm not trying to disparage him because he's still our most talented player, and he's one of ours...but the fact remains, regardless of whether he's playing against UVA or Pitt or Morehouse, our best player should rise to the occassion. Sure some teams may defend against his style better, but look at the season in its entirety...which it looks like you fail to do.

Wait, you are the one that claimed he is in his head now, so don't suddenly try to play the look at the big picture card just because his actual recent play doesn't support your armchair psychology.

I don't expect him to have a 20+ point game every night, but I do expect him to make his presence known in a positive direction.

So what games hasn't he made his presence known in a positive direction then?

Listen, I'm not the only who's making this observation. Devoe is still our most talented player, but something just appears to be "off" with him. I won't say it's to the degree that some are making it out to be, but it's there. If you don't see it...fine. You're welcome to your opinion. I'm sticking to what I along with others are seeing.

Well maybe, you and some others on the board just haven't been paying attention to Devoe the past year and a half because he's acting the same as he always has. He's always been very laid back and almost looking disinterested. His offensive game has always had issues with him not being forceful enough in looking for his shot instead of waiting for the absolute best opportunities.

Yeah, something seems off. Recently he's only scoring more than his average, shooting better than his average, rebounding more than his average, and getting more assists than his average recently.

I get what your saying, it makes sense, but I think there is something else with Devoe, either he's frustrated with Pastner's offense or there is a chemistry issue.
We'll probably never know, but he just doesn't seem (including body language) like the same player from earlier in the season ...

Based on what exactly though because his play on the court has largely been pretty good?

 

[Techster]

Wait, you are the one that claimed he is in his head now, so don't suddenly try to play the look at the big picture card just because his actual recent play doesn't support your armchair psychology.



So what games hasn't he made his presence known in a positive direction then?



Well maybe, you and some others on the board just haven't been paying attention to Devoe the past year and a half because he's acting the same as he always has. He's always been very laid back and almost looking disinterested. His offensive game has always had issues with him not being forceful enough in looking for his shot instead of waiting for the absolute best opportunities.

Yeah, something seems off. Recently he's only scoring more than his average, shooting better than his average, rebounding more than his average, and getting more assists than his average recently.



Based on what exactly though because his play on the court has largely been pretty good?

I've said my piece. You can disagree. I'm not here to disparage one of our SAs to make a point.

Like I said, you're entitled to your opinion. I have my opinions.

 

[gte447f]

Against Pitt, Devoe had a fantastic game scoring (22 points, 7-10 FG, 3-5 3FG, 5-5 FT) with an 85% effective field goal percentage. You want a guy like that on the floor as much as possible (still needs some rest), not coming off the bench as a sixth man. That's crazy. He had a bad game turning the ball over. A couple of things stood out to me. One, he uses the behind the back dribble a little too much and too predictably at times. Sometimes it's really pretty, but sometimes it get's him into trouble. Once, near the end of the game, he tried to split two defenders with a behind the back dribble and the help defender stole the ball. That's a risky move. Second, he does a good job driving into the lane, but he get's too deep into the lane sometime before initiating his shot, and the defense collapses on him with 2 or 3 guys trying to block his shot. He should initiate his shot sooner, while he still has his man on his hip and before he get's to the help defenders waiting for him at the basket. He needs to develop a good runner or pull-up shot in the lane.

All in all, on the season, he has to be considered one of the bright spots. In my opinion he is probably the most talented scorer that has played on a CJP team except Okogie. It's just that he is a finesse scorer instead of an athletic scorer.

 

[gte447f]

Oh, and he (and Bubba) appears to pass up a lot of open 3's that he could probably make a pretty good clip. I think this is because he has kind of a slow setup and release, and he is worried about having his shots blocked. Not sure if he can maybe learn to speed up his shot without screwing it up.

 

[Deleted member 2897]

I agree. If you think about the ramifications of 22 turnovers compared to say something more average like 12, that’s 10 possessions we lost where we probably would have ended up with something like 10 points. That’s giving Pitt 10 extra possessions that ended up with something like 10 points. So that’s a 20 point swing. 22 turnovers is just completely game changing in a bad way. IIRC, Devoe himself had as many turnovers as the entire Pitt team. You can’t really beat anybody if your play effectively provides a 20 point swing.

Just for a bump, I read that Pitt got 20 points off our turnovers. So to consider that they got 10 points and we lost 10 points for a total of 20 points just from our differential to a typical average of 12 turnovers seems about right.

 

[MiracleWhips]

All I know is that with Devoe in the game we have a LOT more turnovers than when he sat out games. Our lowest turnover total of the year came in a game he was out, and the next game was also extremely low.

Cause and effect, or coincidence? You guys can all judge that better than I...I am just pointing out a factoid....

My own opinion is that both he and parham have been BADLY misused. Both should be getting the benefit of designed plays to free them up for looks from three. We don't do that, we let them try to create their own shots after we tell them to throw it inside. The result is turnovers instead of three point shots by our two best pure shooters....which means we lose lose.

I have never seen anyone this season or last season set an off ball screen...

 

[YlJacket]

What is that?