Game Thread - @ Louisville,1/22

[RyanS12]

As bad as it seems there’s still a chance we end up 12-8 or 11-9 in ACC play. Whether or not the Morehouse game counts, that’s a 18-13 or 17-14 type year. My question is how does the selection committee look at a 20 game acc schedule? Is 2 games over .500 or 4 games over mean anything? Especially when the league is looked at as being “down”. We can still get on a run the rest of the way and have our best finish in league play since 04 and still not make the tournament!
The Ball St game is a really bad look. Really really bad.
Arkansas is a solid team and a tournament team but we shouldn’t have lost that one.
Those two games hurt. Even the blown lead (Which seems to be a reoccurring theme) @ UGA stings.
We might need 2 wins in Charlotte to have a shot at making the play in game in Dayton.

 

[Deleted member 2897]

As I've shared many times in the past with many examples, national championships have been won by many coaches with 7 man rotations (8 if I'm being generous and counting the random guy who played <10 minutes). The number of guys you play is not the issue. It's the quality of the players or how they're being used. This year, it's more the latter than the former i.e., not the players. We have enough talent.

There's still a reasonable chance we turn it around in ACC play given the set-up of our schedule, however even if it happens it's likely too little, too late, unless we make the magical run in the ACCT. The latter actually seems possible given we already have evidence that we can hang with the top 3 teams. The rest of the conference is a crapshoot. By comparison, Syracuse hasn't played any of those 3 yet. If we can avoid playing day 1 in the ACCT, I don't think we necessarily need to catch lightning in a bottle to win the thing as in years past.

Generally speaking, its hard to play bad and win games. So first you need to be playing good basketball. While averaging 20 turnovers and a few other things like that is not good, my eyeballs tell me this is the best quality of basketball we've seen over the last few weeks that we've seen in a long time. Its unfortunate we couldn't close a game out like Notre Dame or even last night. We've only had 1 single game in the last month where inside the last couple minutes we didn't have a chance to win it - at ranked Florida State.

11 of our last 12 games are against unranked opponents (Louisville at home 2/12 is the exception). They are all winnable games. 9-3 nets us a 19-14 final record (11-9 in ACC) going into ACCT and we'd be on the NCAAT bubble. 8-4 nets us 18-15, 10-10. I don't think the committee will take into account the first half of the season with no Alvarado or Usher. I just don't. So to me, that's our margin of error - we have to go 9-3. We haven't finished at 0.500 in ACC play in 14 years (not a typo), so there are some other things to play for too. 8-4 would get us to 10-10.

 

[CuseJacket]

We haven’t beat a single team that was close to full strength. This is just not a winning team, as they have far too many offensive implosions and don’t even give themselves a chance to catch fire from the perimeter. I wish they would give Price more time to see if he can develop into something for the future.

I get it. With all due respect, I don't think you need to keep repeating the "full strength" point as you've been heard.

With that said, I agree with you to a point. But if you're excuse making for our wins, then I think it'd only be fair if you excuse-make for our losses. That means the Syracuse loss doesn't count and you could argue pre-Usher play.

We are 3-3 against the non-top 3 (top 10 in all of basketball) teams in the ACC. It's nothing to pound our chests about, but that makes it far from decided about who we are for the full ACC season. Things will normalize as the top 3 play the rest of the league too, and maybe we'll get our bearings.

I'm not happy with our record and still think it should be better, so I'm not apologizing for all of our ills, but I think there is still a reasonable case that our ACC and overall record will look better after a few more weeks. Too little, too late though in terms of salvaging something meaningful for the postseason, barring an ACCT run.

 

[Connell62]

There seems to be this idea that when the schedule lightens up (starting now essentially), that this team is capable of "flipping a switch." This team hasn't won consecutive games since early December. Here's to hoping they flip the switch...

It has nothing to do with flipping a switch. Despite what many here think, the team has played much better basketball over the past couple of weeks, it just hasn't translated to wins.

Aside from the turnovers, our numbers have improved in just about every facet. A couple of bounces here or there, and the recent stretch could easily be different.

Six weeks ago, we all agreed that the front end of our schedule was a murders row, now the team is horrible because they haven't beaten Duke, Louisville, or UVA.

I know, I know... I'm an idiot for not joining the lynch mob and calling for Pastner's head after every game.

It really a foreign concept to most of the people on this board, but you know you can be rational about things, still support the program, and believe that changes are needed.

 

[CuseJacket]

So here's the deal. I've done this exercise for both GT and Cuse. We could end up winning 11-12 games in the ACC and still not beat an NCAA tournament team. That's how bad the conference is this year. So it wouldn't necessarily be compelling to the committee that we are above .500 in ACC play to make our NCAAT case, given that neither GT nor Cuse capitalized in the OOC for different reasons.

Unfortunately my perspective is that we have to not only win a crap-ton of games, but we have to be convincing, and then beat at least one of the teams that might actually make the NCAAT. Tough to do with the league so far down and having already lost our first 3 chances against the top 3. That's why for GT, I think our most realistic shot is the auto-big for winning the ACCT in March. The top 3 are beatable, and therefore there are other teams in the league that could also clear a path for us too.

 

[bos]

Would have been such a sweet victory to save the season. Devoe was so close on that 3. Moses got fouled hard at the end to take the lead. So many things just didn't go GT's way. Great game though. This team is just so frustrating to watch. They are better than they play sometimes. You have lots of veterans making freshman mistakes. Story of the season.

 

[RyanS12]

We have to figure out how to win at home. If we can win the rest of those it’ll include 3 NCAA tournament teams. Louisville, NCST and VT (maybe) Those would be huge on the resume. The games that scare me are on the road vs Clemson because we never win there, Syracuse because they’re tough to beat in the dome (granted we’ve won there) and ND because they’re a really well coached team.

 

[Fatmike91]

Rebounding looked better to me. Some spots in the second half of the Louisville game were the most physical basketball by that I've seen all season by any two teams (and there were very few whistles).

Still too many turnovers. Alvarado lead the team in that stat, but only 1 or 2 of his bothered me. The rest are just part of making something happen.

On to the next.

/

 

[Deleted member 2897]

I get it. With all due respect, I don't think you need to keep repeating the "full strength" point as you've been heard.

With that said, I agree with you to a point. But if you're excuse making for our wins, then I think it'd only be fair if you excuse-make for our losses. That means the Syracuse loss doesn't count and you could argue pre-Usher play.

We are 3-3 against the non-top 3 (top 10 in all of basketball) teams in the ACC. It's nothing to pound our chests about, but that makes it far from decided about who we are for the full ACC season. Things will normalize as the top 3 play the rest of the league too, and maybe we'll get our bearings.

I'm not happy with our record and still think it should be better, so I'm not apologizing for all of our ills, but I think there is still a reasonable case that our ACC and overall record will look better after a few more weeks. Too little, too late though in terms of salvaging something meaningful for the postseason, barring an ACCT run.

This reminds me of our 2018 football season. We were 1-3 with a couple close losses that we basically gave away, and a lot of people were saying the season was over and the same type of stuff. We were playing good football, we were just making a few key terrible decisions each game...kind of like our turnovers right now. Well lo and behold, we then won 6 of our next 7 games.

Its most important to me that we're playing good basketball. To win games, you have to start there. We have to keep fighting and win those 4 point games, not lose them. There's a lot of basketball left. KenPom: NC State 43, Syracuse 51, Virginia Tech 57, Notre Dame 68, Pittsburgh (2) 76, Clemson (2) 80, Miami 102, Wake Forest 103.

Those should all be winnable games. We're not going 10-0 against that bunch, but no reason we can't go something like 8-2. Plus Morehouse thrown in.

 

[CuseJacket]

We have to figure out how to win at home. If we can win the rest of those it’ll include 3 NCAA tournament teams. Louisville, NCST and VT (maybe) Those would be huge on the resume. The games that scare me are on the road vs Clemson because we never win there, Syracuse because they’re tough to beat in the dome (granted we’ve won there) and ND because they’re a really well coached team.

NC State is a maybe also. Right now the ACC has 3 locks, and the middle of the league is playing for approximately two remaining bids.

 

[MWBATL]

Aside from the turnovers, our numbers have improved in just about every facet.

You are absolutely correct. And last night we showed tremendous grit and determination. Coming back in the last 5 minutes, exhausted, on the road with 15,000 hostile fans, showed a tremendous amount of guts. Kudos for that. Ashamed that last 3 by Devoe didn't swish, as they deserved a win after all that effort.

BUT, having said that, until this team figure out how to limit turnovers, the result will be close loss after close loss. And they really haven't shown any improvement in that category.

It they could cut their turnovers from 17 a game to 12 or 13, the'd win a bunch more games.

I'm not smart enough to know how to do that, but I am a frustrated fan who continues to see that one problem which drives me nuts not getting any better.

 

[Silk3]

To everyone saying were playing better basketball. Isnt that part of the problem? Were playing our best basketball w the most talented team in the Pastner era and were still 8-11 3-6.

 

[Peacone36]

No, this is what I mean:

“Please stop posting so much negativity about our team on GT boards and social media.”

“Oh, so then you’re okay with losing. Loser mentality.”

Huh? That has literally nothing to do with what I’m talking about. But apparently it makes people feel a lot better about themselves to deflect from the main topic.

But what you are doing is not what you illustrated in the first quoted sentence. You're out here trying to convince the board that the product on the court is acceptable and that the results of the game are ok because this is the best we have played in a decade. Those are two very different things.

 

[Peacone36]

It has nothing to do with flipping a switch. Despite what many here think, the team has played much better basketball over the past couple of weeks, it just hasn't translated to wins.

Aside from the turnovers, our numbers have improved in just about every facet. A couple of bounces here or there, and the recent stretch could easily be different.

Six weeks ago, we all agreed that the front end of our schedule was a murders row, now the team is horrible because they haven't beaten Duke, Louisville, or UVA.

I know, I know... I'm an idiot for not joining the lynch mob and calling for Pastner's head after every game.

It really a foreign concept to most of the people on this board, but you know you can be rational about things, still support the program, and believe that changes are needed.

I agree with that first part. The additions of Alvarado and Usher have been a tremendous upgrade on the court from just a natural ability standpoint. The difference is obvious. I still think Khalid should play more especially given his ability on the defensive end but that's splitting hairs.

We have a stretch coming up of:

@Notre Dame: The Irish do not protect their home court very well at all
VPI: We should murder them in the paint
@Pitt: Another inconsistent team but Champagnie is a budding star to go along with a player in McGowens who is really good. Frontcourt is soft.
Louisville: Loss
@Wake: Should be a win
@Syracuse: Loss

Miami, Clemson Pitt all at home: All winnable, we should be favored in all according to kenpom

Close the season at Littlejohn: let's be honest, probably a loss, it feels like it always is.

This stretch should tell us about the growth of the team over the course of the season and possibly what to expect next year. It will also be interesting to monitor Devoe's play against some of the weaker opponents in the conference and see what his draft stock does.

 

[YlJacket]

The NCAA overtly dumped the "last 10 games" stat for making the tourney and stated it is now "body of work". No brownie points for closing better.
Lots of teams play 7 - few have their starters routinely average over 35 min. Especially the backcourt.

Last night was good basketball. In isolation there isn't anything to go after CJP about - certainly not the way this thread is. And I agree with others we are playing good basketball over the last several games - not winning basketball but generally good basketball. We are playing good defense and playing with a lot of energy on defense which is really a credit to the coaching and team given the results to date. Would be easy to pack it in as the postseason looks almost impossible at this stage.

Turnovers are indeed killing us. I think it is part coaching but also goes back to the fact we have a black hole at the 3 as far as shooting is concerned. We can't kick to Usher and have him shoot which causes Jose and DeVoe to have to focus way more than they should at driving to create a shot - or having Usher make another headlong drive to the rim with a likely TO rather than shooting the ball. It puts pressure on everything - especially when we are not good at pushing tempo for anything easy. throw in Banks with hands from the smithy and Moses trying to do too much and wala - TO galore recipe.

But I also think the amount of time our starters are playing - especially Jose and DeVoe - are leading to TOs and our general inability to close at the end. There is a gray area between "playing deep into the bench" and having your starting backcourt play 37 and 39 minutes respectively. I do think he needs to find a way to sit Jose and DeVoe for a couple of minutes each half to get their time under 35 min. It is totally unprovable (either way) but my opinion is that playing straight through the game is why our offensive scheme degenerated from the start where we had crisp passing and open shots to the high pick and drive like hell with one pass offense we had at the end. It is also my opinion that DeVoe had just enough tired legs at the end to badly miss the open 3 that led to the run out for LV and also not really be close on the final shot he took (no real issue with the shot - just don't think he had the legs to make it).

There is no way to definitively answer the issue - so CJP's approach is what he gets to live with and it is defensible whether I agree or not. He has to live with the results way more than I do. But it is also a legit question to say we do better with some rest to backcourt recognizing there is no way to prove it either way.

 

[Deleted member 2897]

But what you are doing is not what you illustrated in the first quoted sentence. You're out here trying to convince the board that the product on the court is acceptable and that the results of the game are ok because this is the best we have played in a decade. Those are two very different things.

Fakse. Where have I ever said it’s acceptable? You negative nellies need to stop with all this deflection garbage - if we’re not as pessimistic as you, then we’re okay with losing? Thats ridiculous.

Honestly you should be ashamed for posting such garbage.

 

[whitegoldsphinx]

Fakse. Where have I ever said it’s acceptable? You negative nellies need to stop with all this deflection garbage - if we’re not as pessimistic as you, then we’re okay with losing? Thats ridiculous.

Honestly you should be ashamed for posting such garbage.

Good grief, man. Take a few deep breaths.

 

[Peacone36]

Not once in any of these are you simply asking for the negativity to stop on Social Media and on the board. This is you shoveling kool aid with a front end loader.

Lights out so far. This is the best team we’ve had in a decade. I hope we can close this one out.

Shooting over 50% again. Lead the entire game so far on the road against the #6 team. This is the best quality basketball I’ve seen us play in about a decade.

Well we did lose again. We do win close ones too.

Arill, were playing the best basketball we have in a decade. Lead against the #6 team on the road the entire game, got nipped at the end.

Lead against the #6 team on the road the entire game and barely lose. Best basketball we’ve played in a decade. FIRE PASTNER! Am I doing this right?

Once again you forget what our team was like when we only had 3 starters, sometimes 2. And look at those games LOL - fire Pastner because someone hit a 40 foot bank in at the buzzer? LOL. Notre Dame is 12 points from being 16-2.

 

[Deleted member 2897]

Not once in any of these are you simply asking for the negativity to stop on Social Media and on the board. This is you shoveling kool aid with a front end loader.

Thanks for backing me up. Again, nowhere did I say that losing is acceptable or okay.

 

[Deleted member 2897]

Good grief, man. Take a few deep breaths.

How about you tell the people who falsely accuse others of being okay with losing and mediocrity to take a few breaths.