From a fan of 55 years and what i see

[TheSilasSonRising]

What are each one of their records against the best 5 or 6 teams on their schedules? Everybody struggles with the meat of their schedule except for the elite.

Sooooo, we can not be considered one of the best 5/6 teams on their schedules?

Very, very sad.

 

[TheSilasSonRising]

We can either be a school that competes in football, or a football program that is marginally associated with a school. Football is important, but if the only choice is between harming the quality of the school and being a perennial bottom feeder in football, the school has to come first.

I disagree that we cannot compete with recruiting classes out of the "top" twenty. The recruiting "rankings" are suspect at best. Also, in 2014 we were within a few plays(less than 10) of being in the CFP. Even up to the day of the ACCCG in 2014, we were in a group of about 8 teams that could have possibly gotten into the CFP. The chances were extremely small, but if four teams had lost and we had blown FSU out, we could have made the playoffs. We had two losses, and at that point, we were the only team with two losses that had even a remote possibility. I would say that that qualifies as competing for championships. I don't recall that we had "top" 5, or 10, or 15, or 20 rated recruiting classes in any of the years that included players from the 2014 team.

And that is the problem.
People spewing forth that we can not excel at both like N.D. and Stanford. Losers mentality tainted by the whine az philosophy that our degree will be worth less.

Losers mentality.

 

[99jacket]

Largely agree. The recruiting odds are stacked against us so much that it is now just about impossible to scheme around it. Which, of course, was the main idea of the (expletive deleted) board of regents from the beginning. Requiring calculus for every major is nothing but a ploy by the BOR to render our football program an afterthought in this state. This goal has largely been achieved but the ever elusive national title and multiple SEC championships continue to just out of reach for our friends in red and black. Way back in the early 1960s, Dodd was complaining that requiring calculus was the worst thing to ever happen to this school. This is NOT to imply I would like to for Tech to be like the "factories". It is just frustrating to try and compete at this level with literally one hand tied behind your back. The only solution I can see is to recruit nationally especially for linemen.

Requiring Calculus for Management Degrees is a fairly recent development. When I went to Tech in the 90's there were many students who would not have stayed and been able to get a degree if Calculus was required for all majors. It definitely narrows the pool of students and therefore student athletes by requiring Calculus for all degrees.

 

[augustabuzz]

Requiring Calculus for Management Degrees is a fairly recent development. When I went to Tech in the 90's there were many students who would not have stayed and been able to get a degree if Calculus was required for all majors. It definitely narrows the pool of students and therefore student athletes by requiring Calculus for all degrees.

Calculus has been a requirement for every B Science degree in the university system since before you were born.

 

[RonJohn]

And that is the problem.
People spewing forth that we can not excel at both like N.D. and Stanford. Losers mentality tainted by the whine az philosophy that our degree will be worth less.

Losers mentality.

I'm not sure if you are responding to my statement that school has to come first or not. I was not intending to imply that we can't excel in both. The second paragraph detailed how we were very close to being in the CFP in 2014 while having less highly "rated" recruiting classes. The majority of the years that the 2014 team members were in school GT was in the top 10% of the NCAAs academic progress ratings also. So, the student-athletes at GT have been performing better at GT than the majority of athletes in schools that have much lower academic standards. That does not mean that they learn more or do better on standardized tests. It means that more student-athletes at GT remain academically eligible and stay in school than at many schools with student-athlete specific majors and student-athlete specific quasi-academic departments designed to keep student-athletes grades up.

What I was trying to say in the first paragraph is that: If the only way we can compete in football is to make football specific changes to the school such as add useless majors or classes designed solely to raise the GPA of football players, then it is better to not compete in football. I believe that we are doing a good job of competing, and that we are doing a remarkable job of competing against so called schools that have football programs that are basically semi-pro squads that have a quasi-relationship with a school.

 

[99jacket]

Calculus has been a requirement for every B Science degree in the university system since before you were born.

I'm sorry to tell that is not correct. Otherwise I wouldn't have a BS in Management from the Georgia Institute of Technology. For many years you could take Calculus but you could also take Math for Management to fulfill your math requirements for any College of Management degree.

 

[augustabuzz]

I'm sorry to tell that is not correct. Otherwise I wouldn't have a BS in Management from the Georgia Institute of Technology. For many years you could take Calculus but you could also take Math for Management to fulfill your math requirements for any College of Management degree.

"A calculus course is required in Area A2 for all engineering majors and for all programs at Georgia Institute of Technology. While students may fulfill this requirement with a math course higher than a first course in calculus, institutions may not require them to do so."

http://www.usg.edu/academic_affairs_handbook/section2/C738/

 

[MWBATL]

The real problem is with college football in general. Its not a level playing field. No matter who our coach is or what classes we have or how much we cheat, we aren't going to start out recruiting schools with massive fan bases and massive revenue streams. There is a reason that around 15 schools are in the top 20 in recruiting every year and we aren't. There is a reason that a major factory program with tons of money wins the MNC every year. We aren't the only program in this situation. About 90% of the FBS will rarely ever have a top 20 recruiting class or come close to a a National Championship. Should they all drop down a division? Maybe we should just let the top 15 programs make their own division and just play themselves.

This. This is almost exactly what CPJ has stated recently at multiple venues. He also adds "that doesn't mean we can't win", but logic does tell you that he is trying to compete (successfully, by and large, imho) with lesser athletes than the factories have at their disposal. This, it seems to me, is a simple fact of life. One either accepts this reality and roots for GT knowing our average year will be 7-5, or one bi***s and moans and lobbies for us to try to join the factories.

To me, the real issue is NOT where we are today. The real issue is that the divide between the factories at the top and the rest of D-1 college football is likely to keep widening. Again, this is almost exactly what CPJ has said recently. So, the question the leadership should be pondering is NOT today's status quo, but what will the world look like in another 10-15 years as the gap widens. THAT is a much mor interesting dilemma. One for which I have no answer...but it is the one I sincerely hope GT leadership is pondering. And that is not really a GT problem as much as it is a college football problem as a whole.

 

[4shotB]

THAT is a much mor interesting dilemma. One for which I have no answer...but it is the one I sincerely hope GT leadership is pondering.

While I too would have the same hope, long range planning indicates a level of senior leadership (vs. management nor administration) and commitment to athletics that I think is missing at Tech. I do not think any of the issues we currently face are insurmountable with proper leadership at the highest levels. We need another Dr. Homer Rice level of leadership on North Avenue.

 

[jwsavhGT]

I'm sorry to tell that is not correct. Otherwise I wouldn't have a BS in Management from the Georgia Institute of Technology. For many years you could take Calculus but you could also take Math for Management to fulfill your math requirements for any College of Management degree.

I know I had to take Calculus & Drownproofing to get my BS of Industrial Management in 1983. I don't know what requirements were changed when they changed to the Management degree.

 

[dressedcheeseside]

Sooooo, we can not be considered one of the best 5/6 teams on their schedules?

Very, very sad.

No, that is incorrect. If you look at the head to head records of the last decade, GT comes out on top or even with many of them. Besides being wrong on some tangent, you completely missed the point I was making:

"Everybody struggles with the meat of their schedule except for the elite."

 

[GTFLETCH]

We can Compete for ACC Championships and Orange Bowl Bids... If you are talking about being a yearly National Title Contender in football... That has never ever been Georgia Tech thing... I think staying in the ACC is the right move...

 

[dressedcheeseside]

And that is the problem.
People spewing forth that we can not excel at both like N.D. and Stanford. Losers mentality tainted by the whine az philosophy that our degree will be worth less.

Losers mentality.

To me, a losers mentality is one that refuses to recognize obvious hurdles. If you don't identify hurdles, you'll never get over them.

Also, I'm glad you pointed out Stanford and ND. Two schools ranked well above GT in national academic rankings, even in Engineering in the case of Stanford. The pool of blue chip scholar athletes is tiny. These two schools have the pick of the litter. Our only advantage going against them is Stanford is harder to get into and GT offers geographic advantages for kids who want to stay close to home and live closer to GT.

In the minds of blue chip scholar athletes, GT is to Stanford/ND as Russell is to UA/Nike. In terms of prestige, which is what these dudes crave, there's really no comparison.

 

[Adam B.]

There's a lot of talk about being competitive and competing for championships, and then there's talk that being a GT fan is expecting going 7-5 every year. Those two things just don't go hand in hand to me. Our academics are tough, but pointing out ND and Stanford does show its possible to compete in both academics and athletics. We have other great programs too (golf/baseball possibly others that I'm not paying attention to) amidst a tough academic environment. So is it possible that the problem lies with the coach or AD? Why can't the problem we identify in the football program not be solved by fixing the football program - not trying to change academic standards or move divisions, etc.? Just throwing thoughts out there... up for discussion!

 

[grandpa jacket]

There's a lot of talk about being competitive and competing for championships, and then there's talk that being a GT fan is expecting going 7-5 every year. Those two things just don't go hand in hand to me. Our academics are tough, but pointing out ND and Stanford does show its possible to compete in both academics and athletics. We have other great programs too (golf/baseball possibly others that I'm not paying attention to) amidst a tough academic environment. So is it possible that the problem lies with the coach or AD? Why can't the problem we identify in the football program not be solved by fixing the football program - not trying to change academic standards or move divisions, etc.? Just throwing thoughts out there... up for discussion!

Name one coach better than CPJ who would come in here and stay if successful and not bolt to a factory for big dollars.

 

[65Jacket]

Well, I can beat the OP on one fact. I am celebrating my 60th year as a GT fan. I became a Tech fan in the 8th grade in 1956 when I discovered football. Tech went 9-1 in the regular season and won the Gator Bowl over Penn State. From 1957 thru 1960 we went into a swoon, caused by Ed Harrison amping up the academics. Today's fan would have destroyed the internet with Dodd Bashing. But people back then were more realistic, we knew we had a great Coach. In 1961 we started winning again, the year I entered Tech. I never heard any complaining about Dodd, except from those losers in Athens. I totally thought that he would find a way to win against any odds. I that CPJ has his hands and feet tied by the monster GT has become academically. He is a perfect fit to win in such a rediculas atmosphere.

 

[Adam B.]

Name one coach better than CPJ who would come in here and stay if successful and not bolt to a factory for big dollars.

That's a great point, and honestly I have no idea.. But that's what our athletic association is supposed to do, right? I don't know the landscape of coaches in college football, so I'm not able to name guys like that - but someone employed by Georgia Tech should be. It's the same argument a lot of people just had about the new basketball coach (which you are correct, basketball and football are different), but there is a lot to like about Georgia Tech - some great qualities and traditions here that would be attractive once we start winning. I like CPJ. He's done a pretty good job. We're usually competitive and have had chances at championships, but there might be a reason he's not bolting to factory schools for big dollars - he's not doing good enough.

I honestly really like Ted Roof.. someone from Tech who cares about the school. Not sure at all about how he would do as a HC, but guys like that are out there. We can get better. At least I think we can.

 

[dressedcheeseside]

There's a lot of talk about being competitive and competing for championships, and then there's talk that being a GT fan is expecting going 7-5 every year. Those two things just don't go hand in hand to me. Our academics are tough, but pointing out ND and Stanford does show its possible to compete in both academics and athletics. We have other great programs too (golf/baseball possibly others that I'm not paying attention to) amidst a tough academic environment. So is it possible that the problem lies with the coach or AD? Why can't the problem we identify in the football program not be solved by fixing the football program - not trying to change academic standards or move divisions, etc.? Just throwing thoughts out there... up for discussion!

Comparing success in football to that in golf or baseball is not a fair comparison, imo. For one, golf is a completely different type of athlete that comes from a completely different background that most elite football players. College golfers are closer to the student norm as well. Just look at APR statistics for golf compared to football.

Baseball is different, too, but for a different reason. Pro baseball has a farm system to develop players that have no interest in college. Therefore you get closer to the true meaning of Student Athlete with baseball players. We can all agree the the term Student Athlete has no business in college football outside a very small subset of teams which includes GT.

Point being, the task of acquiring blue chip athletes is a much more daunting task in football than it is for either golf or baseball for the reasons stated above.

 

[Augusta_Jacket]

I honestly really like Ted Roof.. someone from Tech who cares about the school. Not sure at all about how he would do as a HC, but guys like that are out there. We can get better. At least I think we can.

Roof had a head coaching gig. He didn't do well. It's telling to note that, while he has been in demand since as DC, no one has approached him about a HC job.

 

[Adam B.]

Point being, the task of acquiring blue chip athletes is a much more daunting task in football than it is for either golf or baseball for the reasons stated above.

I think you're right.

But there has got to be a way for our football program to improve. Unless as a fanbase and institution we simply become complacent with 7-5 (with some seasons better and some worse) and that's where GT football will live.

By the way for anyone reading, I'm not trying to get a "fire Paul Johnson" movement started, I simply want to discuss how (if possible) our football program can get better.