For Those Who Think We Are Far Off

Sebastian GT

Jolly Good Fellow
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331
I hear you, Boomer, and I appreciate and respect your viewpoints. But, in the case of AllBarn, they still had much more talent based on their recruiting success the past few years, so even if their fans/alumni didn't believe this was possible this year, it really was. I would argue that our situation, with our recruiting the past few years, is much different, but I want you to be right about this thing being turned around fast.

This. The talent base at Auburn is quite different than at Tech right now. As for what Auburn fans were saying a year ago it is pretty clear. They wanted a new coach and they got it.
 

Animal02

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me too. I wore my "Rudy Was Offsides" Tshirt last time. I gotta see if it still fits.
LOL.

The '97 game went with a friend, bought scalper tickets a few seats apart. His was seat 22 (or something like that) in the last row of the original stadium....right at the end of the aisle. They had removed seats 20-24 to extend the aisle up into the new sections, but did not take those tickets out of the system. He sat in the concrete aisle the whole game. Now to get it back on topic.....I think the results will be more like '07 than '97 :)
 

GTonTop88

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Idk if its just me, but in 08-09 I felt like even when we were losing we would find a way to win. These past few years I feel quite the opposite. Sure we can beat decent teams but in the big games I feel like we will lose even if were up 20-0 in the first half
 

Boomergump

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Idk if its just me, but in 08-09 I felt like even when we were losing we would find a way to win. These past few years I feel quite the opposite. Sure we can beat decent teams but in the big games I feel like we will lose even if were up 20-0 in the first half
You hit the nail on the head if you ask me. Finding a way to lose has been our calling card, in closely contested games, the last few years. Just give us a .500 record in close games since 2010 and we would all be thinking a lot differently about the football program. Have we pulled a single game out of the fire the last 3 years? I guess UNC 2013 qualifies. Besides that I can't think of one. We sure have given up a bunch though.
 

GT_B

Ramblin' Wreck
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516
I would love to be optimistic about next year but without someone taking charge of the QB position and running the option smoothly and a more consistent OL we are not doing any better than this year, it's just the truth. I do think our D is going to get more and more solid under roof and Pelton though, the offense? Not so much.
 

Boomergump

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I would love to be optimistic about next year but without someone taking charge of the QB position and running the option smoothly and a more consistent OL we are not doing any better than this year, it's just the truth. I do think our D is going to get more and more solid under roof and Pelton though, the offense? Not so much.
I think you are correct, IF there is no improvement. I guess looking at both FSU and AU, it was first year QBs that turned them around. That is what I am trying to say though. It could be that ONE position that makes a difference for us like that. What are the chances? Well, your guess is as good as mine.
 

Techster

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I know people are trying to keep it positive on this thread and see the bright side, but IMHO, we're closer to 4-5 wins than bumping up to 8+ wins.

Just way more questions than answers heading into 2014. I keep seeing JT will be an improvement and is a better fit for our base stuff than Vad, but I didn't see anything from his extensive play against the upper tier teams on our schedule (namely Miami and BYU) to lead me to think he'll get us over the hump versus those teams. His quickness and speed, which is his advantage, was negated against the faster teams who had players with the same speed. Vad took a season's worth of snaps, getting use to adjustment and reading defenses, and option reads away from JT.

We lose our best pass rusher since Derrick Morgan, who helped the entire D-line become better because he took an extra blocker away. Our DLs had problems getting to the QB with the benefit of Attachou taking up double teams, how is the DL going to get pressure without him? That's one of the things people didn't realize about having Attachou...the domino affect of how the offense had to give up blockers to handle him benefitted the rest of the DL and LBs. Guys like Gotsis became a better player because of Attachou.

We also lose the two most versatile defenders on the team, Watts and Jemea who could flex out to different positions. On top of that, they were just two VERY good pieces on our defense. Our safety spot is dependent on a player who will have missed an entire season due to injury (I Johnson) and another one who was also injured but was still unsettled at safety when healthy (Jamal Golden).

The most important pieces of our offense, OL, will depend on guys who didn't exactly shine when the veterans were injured. That means guys like Devine, and Griffin, though supremely talented, will have to step up. Our projected center, the most pivotal piece of the OL, missed an entire year of development due to injury.

Surprisingly, the most experienced position group on offense will be WRs and ABs. Think about that. Kinda scary...and let's hope our QB can get the ball into their hands.

While it's easy to say we're close like Auburn, the reality is, Auburn had a LOT of talent already on the roster, and added one of the top dual threat QBs in nation to go with an explosive offense.

I hope I"m wrong about all of it, but looking at our situation objectively, it's really hard to see us improve from 7 wins to the next tier.
 

Animal02

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I know people are trying to keep it positive on this thread and see the bright side, but IMHO, we're closer to 4-5 wins than bumping up to 8+ wins.


I hope I"m wrong about all of it, but looking at our situation objectively, it's really hard to see us improve from 7 wins to the next tier.

If we had the same schedule as last year I would likely agree......but we have a far easier one in 2014.

We will win 3 out of the gate, UVA, Pitt, NCST, are wins....we have UNC, Duke, Mia, VT, Clemp, and UGA. We win at least one of the UNC Duke games, if not both...the other four....who knows.
 

Techster

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If we had the same schedule as last year I would likely agree......but we have a far easier one in 2014.

We will win 3 out of the gate, UVA, Pitt, NCST, are wins....we have UNC, Duke, Mia, VT, Clemp, and UGA. We win at least one of the UNC Duke games, if not both...the other four....who knows.

I hope so. We'll see in 2014.
 

Boomergump

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I know people are trying to keep it positive on this thread and see the bright side, but IMHO, we're closer to 4-5 wins than bumping up to 8+ wins.

Just way more questions than answers heading into 2014. I keep seeing JT will be an improvement and is a better fit for our base stuff than Vad, but I didn't see anything from his extensive play against the upper tier teams on our schedule (namely Miami and BYU) to lead me to think he'll get us over the hump versus those teams. His quickness and speed, which is his advantage, was negated against the faster teams who had players with the same speed. Vad took a season's worth of snaps, getting use to adjustment and reading defenses, and option reads away from JT.

We lose our best pass rusher since Derrick Morgan, who helped the entire D-line become better because he took an extra blocker away. Our DLs had problems getting to the QB with the benefit of Attachou taking up double teams, how is the DL going to get pressure without him? That's one of the things people didn't realize about having Attachou...the domino affect of how the offense had to give up blockers to handle him benefitted the rest of the DL and LBs. Guys like Gotsis became a better player because of Attachou.

We also lose the two most versatile defenders on the team, Watts and Jemea who could flex out to different positions. On top of that, they were just two VERY good pieces on our defense. Our safety spot is dependent on a player who will have missed an entire season due to injury (I Johnson) and another one who was also injured but was still unsettled at safety when healthy (Jamal Golden).

The most important pieces of our offense, OL, will depend on guys who didn't exactly shine when the veterans were injured. That means guys like Devine, and Griffin, though supremely talented, will have to step up. Our projected center, the most pivotal piece of the OL, missed an entire year of development due to injury.

Surprisingly, the most experienced position group on offense will be WRs and ABs. Think about that. Kinda scary...and let's hope our QB can get the ball into their hands.

While it's easy to say we're close like Auburn, the reality is, Auburn had a LOT of talent already on the roster, and added one of the top dual threat QBs in nation to go with an explosive offense.

I hope I"m wrong about all of it, but looking at our situation objectively, it's really hard to see us improve from 7 wins to the next tier.
How did all that talent lose 9 games last year? Largely, I agree with you. There are a lot of questions for GT. I wonder what questions Allbarn had after 2012? Were they saying they were the most talented 3-9 team in the land? I am sure they lost players. They didn't have 22 starters returning. Would the smart money have been placed on AU getting to the BCSCG? or even getting to, say 9 wins? The biggest point I was trying to make was not to blow a bunch of sunshine or predict huge things, but rather to highlight the fact that every team is in a state of flux every year and major changes happen in terms of player development, new recruits, coaching changes, system changes, team chemistry, leadership and so forth. At the very least, it should be interesting.
 

Techster

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How did all that talent lose 9 games last year? Largely, I agree with you. There are a lot of questions for GT. I wonder what questions Allbarn had after 2012? Were they saying they were the most talented 3-9 team in the land? I am sure they lost players. They didn't have 22 starters returning. Would the smart money have been placed on AU getting to the BCSCG? or even getting to, say 9 wins? The biggest point I was trying to make was not to blow a bunch of sunshine or predict huge things, but rather to highlight the fact that every team is in a state of flux every year and major changes happen in terms of player development, new recruits, coaching changes, system changes, team chemistry, leadership and so forth. At the very least, it should be interesting.

Bad coaching? Chizik?

Auburn brought in Malzahn and his crew of coaches. Are you expecting a regime change and a stud QB along with a stud D-Line class to change our fortunes next season?

I'm not trying to make this a CPJ thread, but you can't ignore the talent, upgrade in coaching, and influx of talent that Auburn brought in. We lost our best players and are depending on less talented and experienced players to step up, and our coaches are going to be the same next season. Can we be better next season? Sure, but given all the factors, saying we're closer to an improvement because Auburn was able to improve ignores a LOT of factors that made Auburn successful in 2013 that GT doesn't get the benefit of in 2014.
 

Techster

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The man won a Natty and now he is a bad coach? As fans we don't know what goes on behind the scenes. If we were so good at evaluating coaches, we'd all be hired as ADs.

Who was his OC when Chizik won the 'Chip? Who left Auburn in 2012 to take the Arkansas St. job and left Chizik to find a new OC? Who came back after Chizik failed miserably to replace Malzahn.

I think way too many fans are forcing positives of the Auburn situation on GT and are ignoring the fundamental differences of the two situations.

Like I said, I hope I'm wrong about it, but looking at it objectively without my gold tinted glasses, I have a hard time seeing us improving our 7 wins.
 

Minawreck

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623
No you don't hope you're wrong because nothing would give you greater pleasure then to come here and say, "I told you so." Just like every other Tech fan that tries to be right all the damn time. Next years schedule is easier, a lot of ACC teams are taking a step back next year along with us. We don't really know what we have at D Line but its not gonna be much worse than what it was under Groh and we still won a fair number of game in that situation.

Closer to 4-5 wins than 8 give me a freaking break. Duke won 10 games due to schedule alone. Where is their talent?

In fact is say being as pessimistic as you are is actually looking at it through gold tinted glasses because we seem to be one of the only fanbases that takes pride in correctly predicting our teams struggles.
 

RamblinCharger

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I understand what you mean Boomer. Maybe with Justin at QB the team will get behind him and we will get a few more "bounces" our way in 2014. I personally see us winning 9 games, but I thought we would win 9 this year as well. Clemson, UGA, Miami, VT, and probably others get new quarterbacks I believe, so that evens the playing field some. If Custis can break bigger plays than 30 yards thatwould make a huge difference, and if Justin buys into the option, I think our offense will be back to the 08 level, not quite 09 but still very good. My main concern is still the defense. I'm not sold on Roof personally. He was terrible at auburn and has just been solid everywhere else, Hopefully we find a couple of pass rushers and we find someone that won't get burnt in the secondary to replace Young. There are a ton of what ifs, but I think we are much closer to 10 wins than 4-5. The schedule sets up pretty well next year and hopefully Justin can really figure things out the first few games that are a little easier. I also hope that injuries don't kill us again this year. Mizzou went from a 5 win team to an 11 win team because they went from oneof the most injured teams in football in 2012 to one of the least injured teams in 2013.
Hopefully the ball rolls our way a few more times next year. Go Jackets!
 

Techster

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No you don't hope you're wrong because nothing would give you greater pleasure then to come here and say, "I told you so." Just like every other Tech fan that tries to be right all the damn time. Next years schedule is easier, a lot of ACC teams are taking a step back next year along with us. We don't really know what we have at D Line but its not gonna be much worse than what it was under Groh and we still won a fair number of game in that situation.

Closer to 4-5 wins than 8 give me a freaking break. Duke won 10 games due to schedule alone. Where is their talent?

In fact is say being as pessimistic as you are is actually looking at it through gold tinted glasses because we seem to be one of the only fanbases that takes pride in correctly predicting our teams struggles.

I was very specific in my OP as to the reason why I thought we might take a step back as opposed being more like Auburn 2013. The only reasons people are offering to claim otherwise is "Auburn did it and Duke did it" and "It's all about scheduling". First, how do we know next year's schedule is easy if no one has even played a game? You think Miami and VT chalked up Duke as an easy win to begin the season? Make fun of Duke all you want, but they won 10 games and almost beat Texas A&M this season. How about everyone on Auburn's schedule before the 2013 season? For the people that follow recruiting, regardless if you believe recruiting rankings/stars, those people knew the talent that Chizik left Auburn and the talent coming in (specifically the stud DLs). What has GT done in recruiting, player development, and coaching that's new over the recent past that Auburn did to change their fortunes? That's the gist this discussion.

I thought everyone on here was supposed to be reasoned in their responses. So far, it seems like if people aren't a part of the "crowd thinking" on this topic, then the person who has a different view is attacked. It's fine if you disagree with me, but please give me a reasoned response that would hold up to logic.

If you think I take pleasure in GT's demise, then that's your problem not mine. Just because I'm objective about the current situation doesn't mean I'm not a big supporter. In fact, it's my opinion that people who are not realistic about the situation and are always putting a positive spin on everything do more harm than good. GT teaches us to be objective and analytical about a situation, but so far we're getting the opposite with this discussion.
 

Minawreck

Ramblin' Wreck
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623
reasons why:
1. full commitment to opton football which our team and coach are built for.
2. Getting healthy in the secondary in a pass happy league. (Yes we lose Jamea, but we gain I. J., and Golden along with Step Durham)
3. Vad + Sims while talented turned the ball over at prolific rates, which was disastrous
4. O-Line gets healthy and keeps Shaq Mason (loss of Finch hurts)
5. Team starts with 3 winnable games which will be great for breaking in JT and builing confdence/ridding locker room cancers (or do the opposite).

In saying we're closer to 4-5 wins you're saying we are closer to doing something we've never done under CPJ or even Chan Gailey (go below .500 in ACC play) than we are to going 5-3 in the ACC and winning against Wofford, Tulane, and GA Southern.

Now get back to me about being analytical. I'm not saying we're definitely going to be in the inaugural playoff, but don't claim realism and objectivity, when it's just pessimism.
 

AlabamaBuzz

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I admit I am pessimistic, but it is based on the reality of our recruiting over the past 3-4 years and what I saw on the field this year:

  • Lack of consistent O-line play
  • Lack of consistent blocking on the perimeter
  • Number of TFL's our offense had this year
  • Losing our 2 best defenders - Jemea and Jeremiah (and only pass rusher to speak of)
  • Having a QB that is very undersized to play in an offense that requires getting hit a lot
  • Fact that our starting QB (and others considering) is willing to leave and give up a division 1 starting QB job
  • Still doesn't look like we will have much quality depth on defense for 2014
  • Our best A-back (walk-on) Godhigh will be gone
Here are the optimistic points, but I just can't see they overwhelm the ones listed above:

  • 2014 recruiting class looks to be best yet under CPJ (still wish we had 2-4 legit 4-star guys, especially on Dline or at skill positions)
  • QB has tremendous speed, and looks to be able to run the TO
  • AA is back at WR
  • IJ is back in the DB group
  • Shamire Devine
  • Custis may be the B-back we need
  • Smelter is back!! (and Waller)
  • Right now, we still have Roof and Pelton coaching the D, and I like that
  • Perkins showed some flashes of speed and ability at A-back
So, pick which list you like, and it probably matters whether you are a glass half-empty or glass half-full kind of fan.......
 
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