First half Dook defense

[alagold]

On the replay the first fumble looked like a strip, but it was kinda hard to tell with all the guys around the ball.

Gamble was given credit for strip--he was closest?

 

[alagold]

I'm not sure the 2014 defense was that great. They played hard, and had some timely turnovers. But not a great D by any other statistical measure.

I too am frustrated as all get out. I was about to say we have no identity as a defense, but I don't think that's right. We do have an identity, I just don't like it, and I don't think it's the most effective way to coach at this level. And I think it's at odds with PJs own philosophy.

We seem bent on playing straight up, fighting through blocks, keeping the play in front of us. Above all, not screwing up. It makes us hesitant and slow, and is only really effective with physically superior players. (Multiple commenters have mentioned our blitzers look like they're looking for a blocker to engage, instead of looking for gaps. Almost as if they've been drilled so many times to beat blocks that that's all they can see)

CPJ has so many times praised players who go "a hundred miles an hour," who may not know exactly what to do, but they're gonna go hit somebody. It seems to me he's trying to get the defense to play that way, but for whatever reason it's not happening.

on '14 def--statistically the worst in last 5 yrs in nat rank

 

[alagold]

I'm betting that Connor Hansen ends up on D. We already have the center of the future on board and he looks like a prototypical DT. I'm sure Roof has already - shall we say - strongly suggested this to Coach.

I was going to comment on Hansen--sure can play def,if he ends up on Off it will be another indicator of "priorities". hmmm

 

[Augusta_Jacket]

Theoretically, the lower the TOP will equal a lower point total. That, however; only goes into effect when there aren't quick scores involved. The more the D is resting, the better chances they have to make tackles. It's hard to tackle, when you dog butt tired. Trust me... Which is why big running backs get most of their yards late in games. Our D stays out, and gets tired. That being tired leads to both physical and mental gaps in playing. So, the answer is... It depends on if the D gets off the field via TD or via (punt/turnover).

So what you are saying is that an explosive offense can very much be a detriment to a defense, and that much of last Saturday our offense was not helping the D by either scoring too quickly or going three and out.

 

[Jmonty71]

So what you are saying is that an explosive offense can very much be a detriment to a defense, and that much of last Saturday our offense was not helping the D by either scoring too quickly or going three and out.

To a point. However; at the same time, our D has to force 3 and outs, as well. Explosive offenses can be a detriment to ANY defense. However; I wouldn't call Duke an explosive offense. I would call UNC that. VT, is too hot and cold to even put a label on them.

The overall concept to a CPJ team is to have a ball controlling, clock chewing, fine oiled machine on the offense and a defense that allows the offense to keep the ball as often as they can. Right now, we aren't winning the TOP battle and the LOS battle. Those are the main 2 issues. We aren't forcing punts, like we need to and they aren't winning the battle up front. Is that due to talent? Is it due to poor coaching? Is it due to poor techniques? Is it a lack a skill? I really can't say. I do know that players look lost, at times. I do know that we play very un-aggressive. I do know that our defense has no teeth in its bite. and I do know that we run some really poor blitzes. We broadcast it so well, Stevie Wonder could see it coming.

 

[IronJacket7]

DOOK handled us up front. Give em credit for that much. We got pushed around on defense.

They did. But 1st half we made plays. Gotta credit our D for that.

 

[Augusta_Jacket]

To a point. However; at the same time, our D has to force 3 and outs, as well. Explosive offenses can be a detriment to ANY defense. However; I wouldn't call Duke an explosive offense. I would call UNC that. VT, is too hot and cold to even put a label on them.

The overall concept to a CPJ team is to have a ball controlling, clock chewing, fine oiled machine on the offense and a defense that allows the offense to keep the ball as often as they can. Right now, we aren't winning the TOP battle and the LOS battle. Those are the main 2 issues. We aren't forcing punts, like we need to and they aren't winning the battle up front. Is that due to talent? Is it due to poor coaching? Is it due to poor techniques? Is it a lack a skill? I really can't say. I do know that players look lost, at times. I do know that we play very un-aggressive. I do know that our defense has no teeth in its bite. and I do know that we run some really poor blitzes. We broadcast it so well, Stevie Wonder could see it coming.

You have COMPLETELY missed the point. OUR offense was either explosive, or went three and out during the Duke game. OUR offense was responsible for the short rest times for the D. My question was how much you factor OUR offenses TOP into your evaluation. Your answers so far seem to indicate that you would rather continue to hammer CTR without regards to all of the data points. I agree that our D is not good. I am just not sold that that is completely due to the DC/scheme alone.

For instance, of the most explosive offenses in football right now, Oregon, Texas Tech, & Ole Miss, all have abysmal Ds. I am wondering how much correlation there is to explosiveness on O and defensive production. It would seem counterproductive to be so efficient on O that you stress your D to the point of breaking. Or is the intent to be so productive on O that you only need a couple of stops a game to win? What I am trying to figure out is if our O prevents, to some degree, a certain level of success by the D. Again, it doesn't explain all of our Ds shortcomings, but I am beginning to feel like there is more to this than a simple TOP statistic. After all, we've always said that a slow, plodding, efficient death march is the best defense as it keeps the ball out of the other teams hands. Wouldn't the reverse be true as well?

 

[jandrews]

They did. But 1st half we made plays. Gotta credit our D for that.

This. Also, Duke just executed really well in the second half. Had our D on its heals and made some great play calls. It is just any given day one team can perform at a high level. That very well may be the best Duke performs all year. I know it happened against us but look how our offense performed against them. We had better numbers than Louisville. And look what Louisville did to FSU. Every game is independent of the next. Our D has been struggling lately, hopefully they can fix it. Duke needed our game plus two more upsets (Pitt and Miami) to become bowl eligible. I imagine they got reminded of that during halftime. I live in the upstate of SC, Clemson fans are still worried about their offense not executing perfectly. But they all agree win and move on. Sometimes you have a shootout sometimes you have a defensive battle. We will see how the rest of the season plays out.

 

[Boomergump]

This. Also, Duke just executed really well in the second half. Had our D on its heals and made some great play calls. It is just any given day one team can perform at a high level. That very well may be the best Duke performs all year. I know it happened against us but look how our offense performed against them. We had better numbers than Louisville. And look what Louisville did to FSU. Every game is independent of the next. Our D has been struggling lately, hopefully they can fix it. Duke needed our game plus two more upsets (Pitt and Miami) to become bowl eligible. I imagine they got reminded of that during halftime. I live in the upstate of SC, Clemson fans are still worried about their offense not executing perfectly. But they all agree win and move on. Sometimes you have a shootout sometimes you have a defensive battle. We will see how the rest of the season plays out.

DOOK did execute well in half 2. We also had to just keep handing them the ball. It shouldn't have mattered how well they executed after the Austin pick. It should have been over. At 35 -7, we could then trade scores with them forever.

 

[jandrews]

DOOK did execute well in half 2. We also had to just keep handing them the ball. It shouldn't have mattered how well they executed after the Austin pick. It should have been over. At 35 -7, we could then trade scores with them forever.

It was extremely frustrating to watch. Counting the pick safety. That's two of our INTs that we gave right back to them. We have to play a clean game against UNC.

 

[Skeptic]

One note to add. I am not entirely certain how much this has to do with our overall D, but I have noticed that they tend to polay better when we give them a decent rest between series. In the first half, other than the opening drive, we tended to either score in 3 plays, or go three and out. A lot of our drives were in the 1:30-2:30 range. In the second half, we had similar results. We get a great third down stop on Dooks opening possession, and hit the QB as he's throwing to force the INT. Then we immediately fumble the ball back to them and put the D right back on the field. Then we fumble the KO and again, put them in a disadvantageous position. Now I know that doesn't explain everything that's gone wrong with our D this year, but I would have to think that our lack of true death marches this year have impacted to some degree. I haven't done the research, but I would imagine that teams with explosive, quick strike offenses probably see similar results on D.

Thoughts?

Rested defenses always play better. But the game's offenses have changed so dramatically that defenses now have to be better conditioned and deeper on the bench ... and love to play at the pace of the game. And while I get the complaints about our defense, and pretty sure Roof gets them too, the emphasis everywhere seems to be scoring. It is very hard to defenses to keep up with such innovative offenses as we are seeing across the country. I've just decided I'd like to see a better third down defense, some turnovers, and then just outscore the bad guys. And Saturday's bad guy is in my mind one of the worst of all bad guys.

 

[Boomergump]

Rested defenses always play better. But the game's offenses have changed so dramatically that defenses now have to be better conditioned and deeper on the bench ... and love to play at the pace of the game. And while I get the complaints about our defense, and pretty sure Roof gets them too, the emphasis everywhere seems to be scoring. It is very hard to defenses to keep up with such innovative offenses as we are seeing across the country. I've just decided I'd like to see a better third down defense, some turnovers, and then just outscore the bad guys. And Saturday's bad guy is in my mind one of the worst of all bad guys.

If you look around the country, there are a lot of teams scoring in the 30's. It is painful to watch if you are rooting for your team, but it is very common.

 

[Skeptic]

If you look around the country, there are a lot of teams scoring in the 30's. It is painful to watch if you are rooting for your team, but it is very common.

Yes, and look at Oregon: about to fire another coach for not scoring enough. When you look at some of the records being broken today, it is stark. Not only are they being broken -- Georgia Tech is a great example -- but shattered, sometimes two and three times previous career or season records. And those records were set by outstanding football players on outstanding teams. It's why I prefer baseball: within certain parameters, relative skills and abilities from one era to the next can be measured with a large degree of confidence. But how does one measure Clint Castleberry vs. Justin Thomas? And in another time and place, fans actually paid their way in to watch great defenses.

 

[awbuzz]

Correct, but that answer dodges the question I raise: How much does the low TOP affect the D?

IF (notice the big if) we were able score a TD on each of our possessions in under say two minutes AND were able to prevent the other team from scoring at all on at least two of the their possessions, any TOP difference would not be relevant.

Ex. GT has the ball for a total of 20 minutes and scores 70 points. The opposition has the ball for 40 minutes and scores 8 times with 2 point conversions for a total of 64 points.
Does TOP matter?

Yes I know the above is an exaggeration. Bottom line comes done to PPP on each side of the ball during the course of the game.

 

[Augusta_Jacket]

IF (notice the big if) we were able score a TD on each of our possessions in under say two minutes AND were able to prevent the other team from scoring at all on at least two of the their possessions, any TOP difference would not be relevant.

Ex. GT has the ball for a total of 20 minutes and scores 70 points. The opposition has the ball for 40 minutes and scores 8 times with 2 point conversions for a total of 64 points.
Does TOP matter?

Yes I know the above is an exaggeration. Bottom line comes done to PPP on each side of the ball during the course of the game.

That's how it affects STATS. My question is how it affects the PLAYERS.

You are correct though. I think @Boomergump and @Skeptic are also right in their responses above. The game, and rules, have shifted to favor offensive production.

 

[awbuzz]

Rules changes have definitely favored the offense. The biggest probably was allowing the use of hands when blocking.

Re: TOP effect on the players, it has to have an effect.

 

[GTJake]

The Falcons at times have taken Vic Beasley and moved him to LB, I wondered if we could do the same with KeShun Freeman and mix-in blitz/coverage play calling.
It has seemed to work for the Falcons.

 

[jacketup]

2014.
3 dbs on that team in the nfl
If gamble goes. 2 on the dl

Potentially 5 nfl players on the 2014 d. Go look at that d. Is it talent? So now we need 10 nfl players at tech to be good lol

The key word being "potentially". In reality, only Gotsis and DJ White are on active NFL rosters.

 

[Jmonty71]

You have COMPLETELY missed the point. OUR offense was either explosive, or went three and out during the Duke game. OUR offense was responsible for the short rest times for the D. My question was how much you factor OUR offenses TOP into your evaluation. Your answers so far seem to indicate that you would rather continue to hammer CTR without regards to all of the data points. I agree that our D is not good. I am just not sold that that is completely due to the DC/scheme alone.

For instance, of the most explosive offenses in football right now, Oregon, Texas Tech, & Ole Miss, all have abysmal Ds. I am wondering how much correlation there is to explosiveness on O and defensive production. It would seem counterproductive to be so efficient on O that you stress your D to the point of breaking. Or is the intent to be so productive on O that you only need a couple of stops a game to win? What I am trying to figure out is if our O prevents, to some degree, a certain level of success by the D. Again, it doesn't explain all of our Ds shortcomings, but I am beginning to feel like there is more to this than a simple TOP statistic. After all, we've always said that a slow, plodding, efficient death march is the best defense as it keeps the ball out of the other teams hands. Wouldn't the reverse be true as well?

The reverse? Depends on the team you're playing. If you strike quick and the other team panics, than it works. However; Duke was too well coach to go into panic mode. However; I do concede that the 2 turnovers left our D out to dry. It would have been nice to had seen a FG, minus a TD. However; when you have a quick strike offense, it does leave your defense out on the field for long periods of time. If you have the players to sub in and out, it helps, to a degree. But, eventually the defense will wear down.

I see your point. However; my point is regardless of what the offense does, it's the defenses job to limit possessions, TOP, yards, points, 1st downs and force punts. If turnovers fall in there, even better. But, you cannot base your defense around the "hopes" of getting a turnover. The defense has to make plays. The coach has to get people ready and into place for whomever they are playing. I did like the CTR changed the D up against Duke and went into a more nickel, to cover their spread offense. I foresee the same defense against UNC. However; we weren't prepared for the TE. Was it a lack of coaching? Was it a mental breakdown by a player? I don't know. All I know is, we look sloppy and horrible at certain parts of the game. As the game went along the defense broke down. Was is due to Duke controlling the TOP? Again... not sure. But, I'm willing to bet the no huddle had a lot to do with it.

 

[Jmonty71]

You have COMPLETELY missed the point. OUR offense was either explosive, or went three and out during the Duke game. OUR offense was responsible for the short rest times for the D. My question was how much you factor OUR offenses TOP into your evaluation. Your answers so far seem to indicate that you would rather continue to hammer CTR without regards to all of the data points. I agree that our D is not good. I am just not sold that that is completely due to the DC/scheme alone.

For instance, of the most explosive offenses in football right now, Oregon, Texas Tech, & Ole Miss, all have abysmal Ds. I am wondering how much correlation there is to explosiveness on O and defensive production. It would seem counterproductive to be so efficient on O that you stress your D to the point of breaking. Or is the intent to be so productive on O that you only need a couple of stops a game to win? What I am trying to figure out is if our O prevents, to some degree, a certain level of success by the D. Again, it doesn't explain all of our Ds shortcomings, but I am beginning to feel like there is more to this than a simple TOP statistic. After all, we've always said that a slow, plodding, efficient death march is the best defense as it keeps the ball out of the other teams hands. Wouldn't the reverse be true as well?

I'll say this. I think we both have excellent points and somewhere in the middle is where everything will lay. BTW. We will not able to make it to the UVA game. Hopefully, I'll see your mug more next year!