Fantastic article about Dedrick Mills

[iceeater1969]

IMO
Athletes of Non nuclear family that are not stable need extra help in situations like this.
With our staff limited by funding perhaps his issues were beyond our capabilities.

i know as we widen recruiting net we are going more to private academies. This will filter a majority of non nuclear families.
I had a wonderful career where I could mentor a few young wild surveyor/inspector types out of un controlled drug involvment. THE ONES THAT HAD SCREWED UP FAMILY LIVES ALWAYS FAILED THE FORMULAIC COUNSELING . IT was amazing the difference it made when we asked senior managers to just get to know the employee AND tell him how important it is to us personally that he get through his distructive behavior. Sure some failed, but some became great employees and life long friends. Proud to have worked with one of the difference makers who I found out is dad of a regular swarm poster.


So for Deddrick - good luck.

I am sure in the future we will be better prepared.

 

[takethepoints]

Yep. If you are going to counsel people then you have to, you know, use a counseling protocol that works. It isn't as if this is some big secret either. Everybody who is a pro (with a few ideological exceptions) knows how to fashion counseling sessions so that they are more likely to work, given the situation of the person involved. And - surprise, surprise - people with difficult family histories have a harder time taking the efforts of their counselors seriously; if their relatives have failed them, why should they trust or listen to some jive outsider?

I'm glad your company saw this and responded correctly. Now let's hope that Tech does the same thing.

 

[Milwaukee]

Wait...are we blaming GT for this now? I'm not saying that's right or wrong, just trying to clarify what I'm reading.

 

[4shotB]

Wait...are we blaming GT for this now? I'm not saying that's right or wrong, just trying to clarify what I'm reading.

Some (not all) are. The kind of mindset that blames McDonald's for obesity and the cops for giving speeding tickets and the teacher for the bad grade. Personal responsibility and accountability are a thing of the past for some.

 

[MidtownJacket]

The reason you have that rule in a big4 firm is because you provide attest services to their audits. Personal holdings in attest clients are expressly forbidden and its not a stupid rule, as you would materially benefit from inflated earning and the like. 3 strikes and your out weed policies are stupid rules. You seem to have trouble seeing the difference...

Yeah I understand the reason that the rule exists. (Much like I understand why kids can’t break the law and retain their scholarship).

I actually have zero problems understanding the difference which is in fact my point. I don’t have to agree with the rule, just understand it exists and if I don’t follow it there would have been consequences.

I wouldn’t presume to tell you what you may or may not have trouble understanding but my point remains. Enforcing rules and considering if the justification for the rule is warranted are two completely different things.


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[iceeater1969]

Some (not all) are. The kind of mindset that blames McDonald's for obesity and the cops for giving speeding tickets and the teacher for the bad grade. Personal responsibility and accountability are a thing of the past for some.

As I said we exclude non nuclear families that have issues.

When gt recruit a player that's got issues, gt have responsibility and accountability.

Knowing some comments from players deddrick and crew had deeper issues than we could be reasonably be expected to fix.

GT will be ready for a few non Truman athletes in a few years.

Some people need extra.
AND
YES, some people bite the hand that helps.

I sure hope gt keeps taking a chance on a few players each year.


Then they become friends for life.
Here is a picture of now dallas cowboy and former throw- away kid w my son w family at Philadelphia game. This year he brings them to green bay. By way they are starting a high discipline football camp.

I know u dont me an to be strident and are actively help people all the time.

 

[AE 87]

As I said we exclude non nuclear families that have issues.

When gt recruit a player that's got issues, gt have responsibility and accountability.

Knowing some comments from players deddrick and crew had deeper issues than we could be reasonably be expected to fix.

GT will be ready for a few non Truman athletes in a few years.

Some people need extra.
AND
YES, some people bite the hand that helps.

I sure hope gt keeps taking a chance on a few players each year.


Then they become friends for life.
Here is a picture of now dallas cowboy and former throw- away kid w my son w family at Philadelphia game. This year he brings them to green bay. By way they are starting a high discipline football camp.

I know u dont me an to be strident and are actively help people all the time.




View attachment 3894

I love you, man, but you wrote this paragraph:

I know u dont me an to be strident and are actively help people all the time.​

 

[lv20gt]

Don't smoke. It isn't hard. It isn't complicated. Even if you're against the rule, his actions show a level of immaturity, lack of self control, and flat out stupidity that makes it nearly impossible for me to have any sympathy for him.

 

[iceeater1969]

I love you, man, but you wrote this paragraph:

I know u dont me an to be strident and are actively help people all the time.​

That paragraph was hard to phrase and be honest. Plus time ran out on edit.

 

[takethepoints]

Wait...are we blaming GT for this now? I'm not saying that's right or wrong, just trying to clarify what I'm reading.

I can only speak for myself: no and yes.

No, I don't have any complaints about the 3 and out rule, at least as long as dope is illegal. That Tech decided to adopt it is a bog-standard normal decision and, given that Tech is a state institution and dope is, again, illegal, the only one to make.

Yes, I do have doubts about the way the counseling was handled in Mill's case. It's like this. Suppose you ran an executive jet service and you found out that one of your pilots was drinking too much and not getting enough sleep. But … he's the best pilot you have when he's on his game. Your company has a counseling program and you put him in it. The counselors, however, ignore the fact that the pilot's marriage is breaking up and his son is in jail; they give him the standard package instead and tell him he has two strikes left. Then your pilot crashes one of your planes, everybody is killed, and it turns out the pilot got 2 hours of sleep the night before.

Ok, the plane crashed and people died because of the actions of the pilot. But who gets sued? Your company because you ignored the pilot's actual situation when you counseled him and that was a lack of due diligence. That even good counseling might have failed is beside the point; you didn't try to give it in the first place.

I think that's how Tech handled Mills and I hope we learned a lesson from it.

 

[GTHomer]

It's ironic that there is now a change to the substance abuse policy. Article from the 8/8 AJC:

https://www.ajc.com/sports/college/...e-policy-for-athletes/XfjvFGWn83Cd8ZmWLtw4mL/

Interesting takeaway from the article:

"Under the new policy, former Tech football star Dedrick Mills might have had his second strike removed by the time he failed his third drug test prior to the start of the 2017 season. The suspension for his second offense was announced November 9, 2016. His dismissal was announced August 18, 2017, a little more than nine months later. Had that been the case, he would have been suspended for two games rather than be dismissed. A subsequent offense would have meant the end of Mills’ Tech career."

 

[MidtownJacket]

I can only speak for myself: no and yes.

No, I don't have any complaints about the 3 and out rule, at least as long as dope is illegal. That Tech decided to adopt it is a bog-standard normal decision and, given that Tech is a state institution and dope is, again, illegal, the only one to make.

Yes, I do have doubts about the way the counseling was handled in Mill's case. It's like this. Suppose you ran an executive jet service and you found out that one of your pilots was drinking too much and not getting enough sleep. But … he's the best pilot you have when he's on his game. Your company has a counseling program and you put him in it. The counselors, however, ignore the fact that the pilot's marriage is breaking up and his son is in jail; they give him the standard package instead and tell him he has two strikes left. Then your pilot crashes one of your planes, everybody is killed, and it turns out the pilot got 2 hours of sleep the night before.

Ok, the plane crashed and people died because of the actions of the pilot. But who gets sued? Your company because you ignored the pilot's actual situation when you counseled him and that was a lack of due diligence. That even good counseling might have failed is beside the point; you didn't try to give it in the first place.

I think that's how Tech handled Mills and I hope we learned a lesson from it.

So to be clear we are drawing a parallel here between playing ncaa football and flying planes? Additionally we are talking about a hypothetical pilot who didn’t break the law, instead showed dependency issues versus a player who broke the law at a minimum of three times?

This hypothetical feels like a stretch. Your point remains that there is a responsibility to look after your own and get them the help they deserve. That said there is a reason they have a saying about being able to bring a horse to water, but not being able to make them drink.


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[alentrekin]

Which, thankfully we can measure how long it takes horses to drink, which horses under which circumstances, etc.

That is, if we want "them" to drink. The trick is imagining that we are all horses, thirsty and don't know how to drink, and design policies with that in mind. That seems to be the direction Tstan is going..

 

[dressedcheeseside]

Mills f’d up and he admits it. Good for him. He seems to be growing up a bit. I’m glad he’s taking some personal responsibility for his actions and not blaming GT like some. It’s about the only good thing that’s resulted from a bunch of bad chorices and squandered opportunities.

 

[MidtownJacket]

Which, thankfully we can measure how long it takes horses to drink, which horses under which circumstances, etc.

That is, if we want "them" to drink. The trick is imagining that we are all horses, thirsty and don't know how to drink, and design policies with that in mind. That seems to be the direction Tstan is going..

Agree that the systems should be designed to help not hurt the players. That said, there is a certain amount of personal responsibility a person has to accept to be reached. I am not talking specifically about DM here or trying to imply anything, but saying in general for the purpose of our discussion on appropriate policy.

 

[takethepoints]

Agree that the systems should be designed to help not hurt the players. That said, there is a certain amount of personal responsibility a person has to accept to be reached. I am not talking specifically about DM here or trying to imply anything, but saying in general for the purpose of our discussion on appropriate policy.

Here's my take on this:

If you use appropriate counseling and monitoring and the player still breaks the rules, then he's out. But this is an engineering problem, not a moral contest. What you should be trying to do with people who have drug use problems is what will work to help get rid of the problem. Then you have a better chance of helping both the person involved and the organization that values them. Looks like Tech has realized this with the new policy. I hope they follow through with more nuanced counseling for the players as well.

 

[Jacket in Dairyland]

I am hopeful that Mills has figured it out and can fulfill his tremendous potential. But, talk is cheap. I will believe it when I see it.

 

[iceeater1969]

We found that counciling alone is a $ and people waste.

IT would be important to select a roomate who had overcome something close. Perhaps a large senior would play alot and a guy NOT a back up taking a heavy class load.

I bet Private companies have a lot more flexibility than NCAA schools. Glad we have changed our policy.

As for D , his new (seemingly) seriousness about playing ball at a higher level is a good sign.