Fantastic article about Dedrick Mills

[awbuzz]

Was given a minimum of 2 chances before.

I wish Tech would waive the part of the policy about not coming back. Give the kid a second chance if he has truly learned his lesson.

 

[awbuzz]

Sadly, in so many other areas of our society, repeated use of drugs would be considered an addiction and, possibly, even a disability. The focus would be treatment and rehabilitation. Too bad that avenue was not available to Mills.

How do you know counseling / treatment wasn't offered? I'm willing to bet that it probably was.

 

[YJMD]

Sadly, in so many other areas of our society, repeated use of drugs would be considered an addiction and, possibly, even a disability. The focus would be treatment and rehabilitation. Too bad that avenue was not available to Mills.

I wish that were more true. Even in mental health care, drug abuse is often poorly understood and causes discrimination, and access to real evidence-based treatment can be scarce. Treatment centers may be heavily commercialized, in some cases outright fraudulent, in other cases pinned to a religious organization offering a service (grateful for that) but may push faith and not follow any evidence base for successful addiction treatment. Insurance usually provides disparate benefits for mental health and even worse for substance abuse. Addiction is an extremely difficult disease to treat to start with, whose very definition is essentially that someone is unable to control their behavior despite having clear negative consequences. Trying to force somebody to be accountable for something they don't have control over is plain dumb. Addictive substances are addictive because they hijack the circuitry in the brain that regulates self-control. No matter how much someone's cerebral cortex learns that the behavior is bad, they're always going to be battling the primitive brain that is permanently wired to compel otherwise. Cannabis is an addictive substance. It influences that circuitry in the brain. It is true both that cannabis addiction is less likely compared to other substances and has much less risk of adverse consequence, but some people who use it are going to become addicted, and when that happens it needs to be recognized as an illness. There are a bunch of people out there that can drink a 2 liter of coke a day and have a donut for breakfast and never get diabetes, but those who do get diabetes don't need shame for their bad eating habits -- they need treatment.

I don't know Dedrick and couldn't say whether he has an addiction, but it is clear that he knew the consequences of using and when he'd be tested for them and still didn't control his use. We know other players smoke pot, yet they have been able to keep themselves clear when it counted.

The policy is bad, though. It makes no sense to punish someone for having an illness. If the athletic department, the Institute, the ACC, the NCAA, etc. care about players using marijuana, then the policies should be centered around helping them if they detect a problem. Contingency management could be part of that and does enhance success, but that's only useful if treatment comes first. Otherwise, if they aren't there to help anyone, they should stay out of it unless the behavior is somehow damaging to the team, the school, the conference, or college athletics overall.

 

[MidtownJacket]

By policy counseling does and did get offered and completed. I do think there is likely more that could be done to help kids realize they're making big mistakes which will have lasting consequences. I think CPJ has said it best when he said something to the effect of, 'It doesn't matter if the rule is fair, until it is changed you have to abide by it'. I am sure I am paraphrasing there, but it basically sums up my feelings on these type issues.

College sports should be about enriching the experiences of our student body (both the fans and players) and one very real life lesson is that actions have consequences, and no one is above being held accountable. It is a shame that the story took the turn that it did for Dedrick, and I hate that he has had to go through the roadblocks he has faced, but his story isn't over and supporting him through and beyond the challenges is EXACTLY what we should all do as representatives of the Institute and decent people, take your pick.

 

[YJMD]

How do you know counseling / treatment wasn't offered? I'm willing to bet that it probably was.

To be fair, I don't know if it was and what it constituted either. I've read some threads and articles about the situation, and I don't recall it being mentioned. As I said before, if the policy is going to include punitive measures than treatment needs to come first. Both in sequence and in priority. If things are working that way, it's not being reported that way.

 

[ilovetheoption]

Was given a minimum of 2 chances before.

Exactly. They did let him come back. Twice.

 

[awbuzz]

To be fair, I don't know if it was and what it constituted either. I've read some threads and articles about the situation, and I don't recall it being mentioned. As I said before, if the policy is going to include punitive measures than treatment needs to come first. Both in sequence and in priority. If things are working that way, it's not being reported that way.

have to remember that the school is limited on what it is allowed to say is happening. That would include any counseling opportunities.

 

[ilovetheoption]

I must fully admit that the notion of addiction as a disease is one that I've never fundamentally grokked. I grew up with a drunk for a dad, and it has left me with very little sympathy for somebody who can't control themselves.

I hear "it's a disease", but it's also a choice, every time you pick up that bottle, and every time you pick up that bong. Nobody has ever accidentally taken a bong hit.

I make bad choices sometimes. I have a couple extra pounds to lose, but every time I eat a cheeseburger, that's my choice, and if I don't have the willpower not to (or to put it another way, if my pleasure centers have been hijacked in my brain by the greasy goodness), that's my fault, and if I knew that there would be consequences for it, and I kept doing it, I wouldn't expect much sympathy.

 

[YJMD]

have to remember that the school is limited on what it is allowed to say is happening. That would include any counseling opportunities.

That's a good point, and I think an unfortunate one as it would be really helpful for the Institute and others to clearly communicate how they are working in the interest of our SAs. Media reports that I've seen haven't detailed this either, but that doesn't mean we're getting the whole story. By and large the prevailing opinions are either that pot is completely benign or that people are completely accountable for their own behavior (e.g. Dedrick was being "stupid"). It would take someone with a different personal knowledge or experience to think to challenge that narrative, and then that would have to make it through other hurdles to bring to print even if a columnist wrote it up. I hope someone does some day.

 

[awbuzz]

That's a good point, and I think an unfortunate one as it would be really helpful for the Institute and others to clearly communicate how they are working in the interest of our SAs. Media reports that I've seen haven't detailed this either, but that doesn't mean we're getting the whole story. By and large the prevailing opinions are either that pot is completely benign or that people are completely accountable for their own behavior (e.g. Dedrick was being "stupid"). It would take someone with a different personal knowledge or experience to think to challenge that narrative, and then that would have to make it through other hurdles to bring to print even if a columnist wrote it up. I hope someone does some day.

Ask a police man that works the night shift or a person that works in an ER and see what they say about pot not causing impairment.
Also read the medical reports regarding ling term use mental related issues.

Just pointing out that there are problems related to recreational marijuana use.

 

[YJMD]

I must fully admit that the notion of addiction as a disease is one that I've never fundamentally grokked. I grew up with a drunk for a dad, and it has left me with very little sympathy for somebody who can't control themselves.

I hear "it's a disease", but it's also a choice, every time you pick up that bottle, and every time you pick up that bong. Nobody has ever accidentally taken a bong hit.

I make bad choices sometimes. I have a couple extra pounds to lose, but every time I eat a cheeseburger, that's my choice, and if I don't have the willpower not to (or to put it another way, if my pleasure centers have been hijacked in my brain by the greasy goodness), that's my fault, and if I knew that there would be consequences for it, and I kept doing it, I wouldn't expect much sympathy.

Thanks for sharing the story. Even if your dad had an illness that put him out of control of his behavior, it doesn't excuse the behavior itself or the damage it can do to loved ones. I speak mainly of the perspective that authority (e.g. the law, company policy, athletic organizations, medical treatment) needs to have if they care to actually improve people's lives. If you are someone on the receiving end of harm from an addiction, you're left somehow having to reconcile the idea of someone not having control over their actions and someone making a volitional choice to harm you. Despite the contradiction, both are true. It's tragedy, and it can be extremely painful.

 

[YJMD]

Ask a police man that works the night shift or a person that works in an ER and see what they say about pot not causing impairment.

Well considering I fit into the latter category (Psychiatrist, although I haven't been in the ED since residency), I can vouch that pot can clearly cause impairment and addiction.

 

[MidtownJacket]

From the original article:

(Under Tech’s policy, athletes who test positive a first time for any of a list of prohibited substances are required to undergo counseling. A second positive results in a suspension for 20 percent of the season. A third offense results in dismissal from the team.)

 

[Milwaukee]

I'm more pissed at the dude that kept drug testing him within Tech if I'm being honest.

 

[ilovetheoption]

Thanks for sharing the story. Even if your dad had an illness that put him out of control of his behavior, it doesn't excuse the behavior itself or the damage it can do to loved ones. I speak mainly of the perspective that authority (e.g. the law, company policy, athletic organizations, medical treatment) needs to have if they care to actually improve people's lives. If you are someone on the receiving end of harm from an addiction, you're left somehow having to reconcile the idea of someone not having control over their actions and someone making a volitional choice to harm you. Despite the contradiction, both are true. It's tragedy, and it can be extremely painful.

Legit lol at "thanks for sharing your story". Not giving you a hard time, it was just such a therapeutic answer. "Don't negate their experience, acknowledge the validity of their emotions and then calmly and without judgement explain the facts"

You're a doctor, and I'm not. I defer to your expertise. I am just acknowledging that I am unable to wrap my head / heart around the notion that someone is not in control of their behavior.

I don't care if you are drunk, high, or just wanting to be, no one's forcing you to do anything, so you are, in fact, in control of your behavior.

 

[YJMD]

Legit lol at "thanks for sharing your story". Not giving you a hard time, it was just such a therapeutic answer. "Don't negate their experience, acknowledge the validity of their emotions and then calmly and without judgement explain the facts"

Yeah I think if I didn't walk this path in life it probably wouldn't occur to me to say that, but I can say that the gratitude was genuine, and in no way did I type my response asking myself "how can I be a good therapist here?". More personally, likely not to the same extent, but I've been on the receiving side too.

 

[ilovetheoption]

Yeah I think if I didn't walk this path in life it probably wouldn't occur to me to say that, but I can say that the gratitude was genuine, and in no way did I type my response asking myself "how can I be a good therapist here?". More personally, likely not to the same extent, but I've been on the receiving side too.

Like I said, not giving you a hard time I've heard the language before, and it was funny to read it on a message board. We're all good, dude.

 

[awbuzz]

Well considering I fit into the latter category (Psychiatrist, although I haven't been in the ED since residency), I can vouch that pot can clearly cause impairment and addiction.

Wondered if the MD meant you were doctor. Congratulations for trooping the the process to earn the title Doctor.

See if you can change the ED to ER ;-)

 

[Buzztheirazz]

Agree that KirVonte has filled the cleats that Dedrick fell out of...

Somewhat...

This is not a knock on KB in the slightest but DM had the ability to take on ANYONE and still get another yard or two. KB May eventually be able to do that but DM is a different breed.

I would put DM up against every huge DL on Clemson’s line and bet he could get still get that last yard that’s needed.

 

[Buzztheirazz]

I'm more pissed at the dude that kept drug testing him within Tech if I'm being honest.

What did CPJ say “testing the fool out of him”!

Hahaha.

You know most other school have a policy where they tell the player—Hey next Monday you have a test. Here’s a flush kit