Expansion Talk 2021

[Technut1990]

What does Clemson give them the SEC for that kinda money that they don’t already have?

what does a complete monopoly give them that they don’t have ? My point is the SEC can and I think would bust the alliance as they brought in big money brands, ultimately making the SEC richer

 

[GTrob21]

I just think that the conference realignment game has shifted from highly populated markets that increase your channel revenue to compelling matchups that will draw digital eyeballs.

My hope is that with this "Alliance" that the three non "SEC" conferences will band together to check the ever-increasing power of the SEC. I hope the AD's and Presidents are smart enough to realize that without more money being distributed to the members, it will all be for naught. Eventually, the larger schools will not stand to have 20 million less given to them, than what is being given to Vandy...

The huge draw of the SEC is that they are going to make more money than anybody else. We have to find a way to increase our revenue to stay competitive. If we don't, we are the next Big 12, if we do, we will survive.

That is why I am a proponent of moving GT into the B1G. It solidifies and stabilizes our future.

 

[Technut1990]

I’m not even trying to factor all of these media rights, they are just as relevant as they were to Texas and Oklahoma. I cited Clemson as a target ( which it will eventually be ) but also stated the smarter play is to eliminate any ACC competition simply by soliciting Big 10 or PAC 12 schools. Let the ACC be the ACC until 2036 who cares ? These rights that everyone keeps speaking of are up to be renewed or renegotiated in what 2023 and 2025 in the Big 10 and PAC 12.

there is absolutely nothing preventing Any of those schools from flipping to The SEC under the same conditions Texas and Oklahoma did, they simply wait until 2023 and 2025 to start their SEC schedules. There won’t be a GORs to deal with nor a significant conference buy out. When the Alliance is broken and if the SEC has Ohio St, Penn St, USC etc…, the ACC will be alone in their TV deal for 10 more years ! Clemson, NC and Fla State then leave in 2036 just as Texas and Oklahoma essentially did This year.

The SEC isn’t just going to stand still as a alliance formed just to block their goals works against them, they will move against the Alliance in one way or another, it’s foolish to think they won’t.

 

[Technut1990]

I just think that the conference realignment game has shifted from highly populated markets that increase your channel revenue to compelling matchups that will draw digital eyeballs.

My hope is that with this "Alliance" that the three non "SEC" conferences will band together to check the ever-increasing power of the SEC. I hope the AD's and Presidents are smart enough to realize that without more money being distributed to the members, it will all be for naught. Eventually, the larger schools will not stand to have 20 million less given to them, than what is being given to Vandy...

The huge draw of the SEC is that they are going to make more money than anybody else. We have to find a way to increase our revenue to stay competitive. If we don't, we are the next Big 12, if we do, we will survive.

That is why I am a proponent of moving GT into the B1G. It solidifies and stabilizes our future.

and that’s why I said that the Alliance has to be more than voting and schedule, it has to force a new ACC TV deal and that deal has to generate more money per team ( Big 10, ACC and PAC 12). Essentially the Alliance has to get paid big for playing each other, if not as a new conference as a new TV package. The ACC is still in a 32 mil per team game with The SEC in at 60 or 70 If they are still tied to the current contract. The SEC isn’t duty or contractually bound to stay in The Current make up of The NCAA or The BCS, they would simply say bye bye.

 

[RonJohn]

and that’s why I said that the Alliance has to be more than voting and schedule, it has to force a new ACC TV deal and that deal has to generate more money per team ( Big 10, ACC and PAC 12). Essentially the Alliance has to get paid big for playing each other, if not as a new conference as a new TV package. The ACC is still in a 32 mil per team game with The SEC in at 60 or 70 If they are still tied to the current contract. The SEC isn’t duty or contractually bound to stay in The Current make up of The NCAA or The BCS, they would simply say bye bye.

Responding to a combination of this post and the one before it. 15 years is a very long time. We can make predictions and have conjecture about what will happen with the ACC and the SEC, but nobody actually knows. I seriously doubt that Clemson, Ohio State, and Alabama will be the top three football programs continuously for the next 15 years. (No predictions following, just possibilities) It is possible that in 15 years damning evidence about CTE will have been found and American football will not be an active sport any more. It is possible that the SEC gains enough power to completely control the NCAA. It is possible that the SEC decides to pull football out of the NCAA and runs football as a university "sponsored" sport with paid athletes who are not students. It is possible that the ACC/Big10/Pac12 alliance excludes the SEC from CFP, and the alliance makes more money than the SEC. My point is that predictions about what Clemson or FSU are going to want to do in 15 years are kind of mute at this point. It is like predicting right now what stocks you will want to invest in 15 years from now.

With respect to the media money, for GT it doesn't really make a huge difference. Compare GT and the mutts. The mutts, at the moment, get about $15 million more in media money, but they generate about $90 million more in total revenue than GT. Add another $15 million to GT's athletic revenue and we are still $75 million behind the mutts. I am not saying that it makes no difference, nor that GT would be better off with an additional $15 million. I am saying that if GT wants to have that level of resources and wants to compete at that level, the work needed is an order of magnitude greater than just media money.

 

[Oldgoldandwhite]

I don’t think this is going to go the way the SEC wants.
Texas has a huge ego.
Scheduling problems.
Two more mouths to feed.
A&M hates Texas.
Division problems.
More losses and only one winner.
And the list goes on.

 

[Northeast Stinger]

I don’t think this is going to go the way the SEC wants.
Texas has a huge ego.
Scheduling problems.
Two more mouths to feed.
A&M hates Texas.
Division problems.
More losses and only one winner.
And the list goes on.

I think that is a distinct possibility. It’s a political coalition which only works as long as everyone parrots the same party line. The moment some member doesn’t think they’re getting their fair share of the glory the rifts will start to appear. Especially if the expanded playoff falls apart making the SEC the conference with the largest number of also-runs.

 

[g0lftime]

You’re absolutely right that a B1G-SEC alliance would be the most lucrative, however, I have my doubts the B1G really wants that, no matter how hard OSU/MICH push them

B1G wants to recruit in the south. Can do that with ACC as well as SEC. Cross conference match ups could be interesting for some B1G teams but why would Ohio State want to chance a mid season game against Alabama LSU UGA to weaken their playoff chances. Sort of surprised Clemson UGA game is happening but early loss is not devastating if still win their conference.

 

[85Escape]

I don't understand what those who are poo-pooing the Alliance are suggesting.

Are they just playing the safe game of saying "That Will Never Work"? At work we call those people the "Wing Pullers"...those sad people who have nothing useful to suggest but will almost always step up to say why something won't work. They seem to get an ego-kick out of predicting failure. They pull the wings off the potential butterflies before they ever get a chance to fly, then say "see, I told you that would never work. Aren't I smart?"

I haven't heard any suggestions as to what we should do other than not stand up to the SEC's power play. And make no mistake about it, adding UT and OU to the SEC is 100% an attempt to extend their dominance and minimize all the other conferences. I'm interested in hearing a proactive alternative to the Alliance other than 'take the beating like a man and pretend you like it.'

 

[forensicbuzz]

I never said give up. There is nothing to give up. The SEC added 2 top tier teams and everyone is freaking out. Maybe Swofford should make Notre Dame and Penn State an offer they couldn’t refuse. But we all know the ACC only cares about who is replacing Roy and K. Our conference, outside Clemson football, regarding athletics has become a joke under Swofford. And we allowed it to happen so I’m not holding my breath for these geniuses to come up with a workable plan.

Swofford isn't Commissioner anymore and the new guy is not part of the NC Mafia. Don't expect the same ole, same ole.

 

[SOWEGA Jacket]

These long term media rights can easily be renegotiated. And if they can’t be then they can be bought out by big money folks who want to see a SEC super conference that includes the Ohio States, Clemson’s, FSU’s, etc. Money and/or contracts have never stood in the way of major shifts. Nothing is different now. There are enough billionaires out there who would love to be the Jerry Jones of the college world. Now with NIL busting down the facade it’s just a matter of time until real money takes over. To believe a media rights contract that extends into the mid 2030’s will still be in place at that time just isn’t understanding what is going on.

 

[SOWEGA Jacket]

I don't understand what those who are poo-pooing the Alliance are suggesting.

Are they just playing the safe game of saying "That Will Never Work"? At work we call those people the "Wing Pullers"...those sad people who have nothing useful to suggest but will almost always step up to say why something won't work. They seem to get an ego-kick out of predicting failure. They pull the wings off the potential butterflies before they ever get a chance to fly, then say "see, I told you that would never work. Aren't I smart?"

I haven't heard any suggestions as to what we should do other than not stand up to the SEC's power play. And make no mistake about it, adding UT and OU to the SEC is 100% an attempt to extend their dominance and minimize all the other conferences. I'm interested in hearing a proactive alternative to the Alliance other than 'take the beating like a man and pretend you like it.'

I reject the general tone that the SEC did something wrong or bad. They added 2 teams. If the ACC would have added Texas and Oklahoma I know all of you would be high fiving and beating our ACC chests. If our new commish had a press conference tomorrow saying we are adding ND, Penn State, and Nebraska in 2025 I seriously doubt y’all would say the ACC is evil.

 

[forensicbuzz]

Yeah, I know the ACC hired a Big 10 guy. But Swofford has been running this thing for years. And I’ve never said the SEC has any moral high ground. They are a bunch of redneck schools who don’t play education. But since we are on a football message board you better believe they are in charge. This isn’t a research message board or an engineering message board. It’s a football board and in case you haven’t the SEC has bragging rights just like we have bragging rights when it comes to actual education.

A B1G guy? That's a little bit of a stretch. He was AD at Northwestern, true, but he was also the AAD at Notre Dame and Tennessee. So, he has strong ties to other programs and has seen the way other programs work. I wouldn't characterize Jim Phillips as a B1G guy.

 

[forensicbuzz]

So? He's gone now and has no bearing on this new alliance, which seems to have you in a tizzy. The PAC-12 has a new guy as well. Past poor decisions do not prevent you from making better decisions in the future.

Well, the B1G guy hasn't been there very long either.

 

[forensicbuzz]

Maybe this new guy will turn out not to be a moron and beholden to the Carolina mafia. Actions will determine that. So far, on his watch the SEC pulled off a heist and he never saw it coming if you believe the reports.

Show me the "reports" otherwise stop impugning someone you obviously know nothing about.

 

[85Escape]

I reject the general tone that the SEC did something wrong or bad. They added 2 teams. If the ACC would have added Texas and Oklahoma I know all of you would be high fiving and beating our ACC chests. If our new commish had a press conference tomorrow saying we are adding ND, Penn State, and Nebraska in 2025 I seriously doubt y’all would say the ACC is evil.

I don't think the SEC did anything "bad" either. I think they acted in their self-interest, which is what should be expected since this is now business and has zero to do with the SA's well-being. Just like the Alliance members are also acting in their self-interest. I do believe that the Alliance has weighed in the general benefit of the SA's more than the SEC has...but that's just conjecture based upon history and stated intent.

What I don't get is why the Alliance acting in their self-interest seems to be 'bad' to some, while when the SEC does it is considered okay? And will it work? Who knows. But it beats the craps of just taking the beating.

 

[RonJohn]

I reject the general tone that the SEC did something wrong or bad. They added 2 teams. If the ACC would have added Texas and Oklahoma I know all of you would be high fiving and beating our ACC chests. If our new commish had a press conference tomorrow saying we are adding ND, Penn State, and Nebraska in 2025 I seriously doubt y’all would say the ACC is evil.

Who has said "evil"?

The SEC homers that you pay so much attention to were touting that the SEC moves were solidifying the SEC as the most dominate conference. They were spouting out that the SEC is going to make all of the other conferences irrelevant. Now that the other conferences are planning moves to remain relevant, strengthen themselves, and ensure that the SEC isn't able to dictate college football: The SEC homers are crying and whining that the other conferences are all cry babies. Apparently to the SEC homers, the other conferences should just sit down, shut up, and allow the SEC to take over. You claim not to be an SEC homer, but you sound exactly like Finebaum.

You state that the SEC wasn't intentionally harming the Big12, they were only strengthening themselves. Now you claim that the other conferences moves to strengthen themselves are nothing but an attempt to harm the SEC. You are seeing thru SEC colored glasses. Why can it not be that all of the conferences are doing what is in their best interest?

 

[forensicbuzz]

The only counter to SEC is for the other conferences to isolate the SEC. Unfortunately, the SEC's easy counter to the 'alliance' is to peel one of the conferences off. If any of the three paired with the SEC it would instantly be an utterly dominant force.

I'd be very disappointed, although not surprised, if the ACC commissioners aren't also talking to the SEC and ESPN about options. An SEC-ACC 'alliance' makes a lot of sense for geography, rivalries and power. Unfortunately, a B1G-SEC alliance would be the most valuable. So lucrative, in fact, they could absorb/reimburse the buyouts of teams like Clemson and FSU to bring them in.

A writer, and I can't remember who, recently said that this re-alignment is going to have two kinds of players: The administrators/schools/conferences who think there's rules about this sort of thing. And the ones who will come out on top.

I disagree with this wholely. I think isolating the SEC is very problematic at this point.

I foresee an isolated SEC proclaiming themselves ELITE league that only plays the best. They will form their own 16-20 team thing and sell to HS players and coaches that steel sharpens steel and that by going to SEC schools the players will have the best chance to get seen (more NIL $$) and the best chance to make it to the NFL. Kids will buy into that. They'll look at it as the "A" league. ESPN will fully support t his effort.

We don't want a break-away league trying to elevate themselves above the rest of college football. The SEC already has a couple steps in that direction. If this is allowed to happen, the entire landscape of college football will change and the Ohio States and Clemsons will eventually defect.

 

[Northeast Stinger]

This thread is stuck going in circles.

Many are pointing out that the ACC still has some cards to play, that GORs actually do mean what they say, and it is good for football to keep the ACC from owning everything.

A couple of others are saying the game is over, the SEC won, just accept it.

And I guess we are stuck in this endless back and forth until new information comes in. But my bet is that the southeast is not the only section of the country with smart people, good lawyers and lots of money.

 

[Northeast Stinger]

This thread is stuck going in circles.

Many are pointing out that the ACC still has some cards to play, that GORs actually do mean what they say, and it is good for football to keep the ACC from owning everything.

A couple of others are saying the game is over, the SEC won, just accept it.

And I guess we are stuck in this endless back and forth until new information comes in. But my bet is that the southeast is not the only section of the country with smart people, good lawyers and lots of money.

*keep the SEC from owning everything*