Expansion Talk 2021

[GoJacketsInRaleigh]

I reject the general tone that the SEC did something wrong or bad. They added 2 teams. If the ACC would have added Texas and Oklahoma I know all of you would be high fiving and beating our ACC chests. If our new commish had a press conference tomorrow saying we are adding ND, Penn State, and Nebraska in 2025 I seriously doubt y’all would say the ACC is evil.

The SEC can do what they want. The other conferences can respond in whatever manner they want. I have no issue with SEC adding those two schools. I do have issues with them trying to dictate the playoff knowing they were doing that behind the scenes. Screw that

 

[SOWEGA Jacket]

The SEC can do what they want. The other conferences can respond in whatever manner they want. I have no issue with SEC adding those two schools. I do have issues with them trying to dictate the playoff knowing they were doing that behind the scenes. Screw that

I agree with you. I hate them, but I admire their chutzpah and business sense.

 

[4shotB]

But my bet is that the southeast is not the only section of the country with smart people, good lawyers and lots of money.

That is true. However, I think the Southeast has a large competitive advantage in their will, resolve and leadership. I am in the group that believes that athletics "do mean so much more" to these schools and states and they act accordingly. All of the other things may be equal (or even better) outside the south but from what I have seen about organizational behavior and performance, determination is a key predictor of success.

Disclaimer: this is an observation and opinion based soley on my experiences devoid of any value judgement of any parties.

 

[forensicbuzz]

If I’m a lawyer for the ACC, and I see a team getting more than 50% of the gate, either directly or indirectly through a compensating cut, I’d argue in court that it’s a home game.
For FSU, that would mean playing a lot of games in Tampa; for Clemson they’d either be trying to play in Atlanta or Charlotte. And that’s IF you could make that work for 15 straight years. That would really hurt the fan base.
Also, imagine taking a 2 hour bus ride to seven “neutral site” games a year, and traveling away to the rest. That’d be rough on a team. As a player, you’d be in a hotel for every game of the year.
Ironically, Georgia Tech could probably make it work at the Benz. It’s a lot easier for an urban school to pull that off.
And that’s IFF you can make that work in court to get media rights to those games. If those aren’t SEC games, you might have to split the media payout, too.

That's already true anyway. Every team goes to a hotel before their game.

 

[SOWEGA Jacket]

What I don't get is why the Alliance acting in their self-interest seems to be 'bad' to some, while when the SEC does it is considered okay? And will it work? Who knows. But it beats the craps of just taking the beating.

I’ve never stated the Alliance is bad. The other conferences should absolutely do what they think is best. If that means forming an alliance against the SEC then so be it. I just don’t think it will be successful and I think it could push more elite teams to the SEC.

I don’t know what the response should be because I don’t get paid the big bucks to make those decisions. I do know that the ACC has expanded in the past and basically destroyed the Big East in the process so the expansion precedent has definitely been set.

 

[RonJohn]

I disagree with this wholely. I think isolating the SEC is very problematic at this point.

I foresee an isolated SEC proclaiming themselves ELITE league that only plays the best. They will form their own 16-20 team thing and sell to HS players and coaches that steel sharpens steel and that by going to SEC schools the players will have the best chance to get seen (more NIL $$) and the best chance to make it to the NFL. Kids will buy into that. They'll look at it as the "A" league. ESPN will fully support t his effort.

We don't want a break-away league trying to elevate themselves above the rest of college football. The SEC already has a couple steps in that direction. If this is allowed to happen, the entire landscape of college football will change and the Ohio States and Clemsons will eventually defect.

Maybe. The SEC does have an issue that isolation would expose. They are regional. Would the entire country pay attention to an Southern playoff? Would the entire country continue paying attention to a Southern playoff if it is Alabama/LSU/Florida/mutts every single year? Would a top rated player from the Midwest want to try to be in the "Southern" playoffs, or would they want to try to be in the "National" playoffs that they grow up watching? If the SEC were to add a few Midwest teams and a few West Coast teams, then the alliance would not be as powerful.

The SEC can make marketing claims about being the best chance to make the NFL. Other conferences can make marketing claims about being great chances to make the NFL also. Looking at number of people drafted in 2021, the SEC had about 20 more than the Big10 and the ACC. Just rough even, purely statistical numbers about 21% of SEC players are drafted, but about 14% of ACC are drafted. In reality, I don't think it makes a huge difference. It isn't a random selection of equal pieces. The reason that the SEC has had more people get drafted isn't because of something the SEC is doing, it is because more draft worthy players choose to go to the SEC.

 

[forensicbuzz]

Maybe. The SEC does have an issue that isolation would expose. They are regional. Would the entire country pay attention to an Southern playoff? Would the entire country continue paying attention to a Southern playoff if it is Alabama/LSU/Florida/mutts every single year? Would a top rated player from the Midwest want to try to be in the "Southern" playoffs, or would they want to try to be in the "National" playoffs that they grow up watching? If the SEC were to add a few Midwest teams and a few West Coast teams, then the alliance would not be as powerful.

The SEC can make marketing claims about being the best chance to make the NFL. Other conferences can make marketing claims about being great chances to make the NFL also. Looking at number of people drafted in 2021, the SEC had about 20 more than the Big10 and the ACC. Just rough even, purely statistical numbers about 21% of SEC players are drafted, but about 14% of ACC are drafted. In reality, I don't think it makes a huge difference. It isn't a random selection of equal pieces. The reason that the SEC has had more people get drafted isn't because of something the SEC is doing, it is because more draft worthy players choose to go to the SEC.

If the best players are all going to the SEC because it's considered the "A-League" by HS players and coaches...absolutely the whole country would watch. That doesn't mean they wouldn't watch their own teams too, but the SEC would become a de facto semi-pro league. This is something we do not want to happen.

I foresee the solution to this to be a combination of negotiation and coercion. I could also see state legislators getting involved at some point.

 

[RonJohn]

If the best players are all going to the SEC because it's considered the "A-League" by HS players and coaches...absolutely the whole country would watch. That doesn't mean they wouldn't watch their own teams too, but the SEC would become a de facto semi-pro league. This is something we do not want to happen.

I foresee the solution to this to be a combination of negotiation and coercion. I could also see state legislators getting involved at some point.

That could happen in the future. If Texas and Oklahoma were to join the SEC in 2022, and the other conferences started excluding the SEC in 2022, I don't think that the SEC would be considered that far above the other conferences. If Texas and Oklahoma join and the other conferences expand the playoffs and allow the SEC to get 6 teams in a 12 team playoff every year, then they would end up being considered that far above the other conferences. If the other conferences exclude the SEC, the SEC might end up getting to the point you are describing but they don't have enough strength to overcome the fact that they are only a regional conference at the moment. I believe you are close to Chicago. This season, are the people in Chicago going to be more interested in what Alabama and Florida are doing or what Wisconsin, Northwestern, and Ohio State are doing?

 

[Northeast Stinger]

That is true. However, I think the Southeast has a large competitive advantage in their will, resolve and leadership. I am in the group that believes that athletics "do mean so much more" to these schools and states and they act accordingly. All of the other things may be equal (or even better) outside the south but from what I have seen about organizational behavior and performance, determination is a key predictor of success.

Disclaimer: this is an observation and opinion based soley on my experiences devoid of any value judgement of any parties.

When I was a kid we longed for our southern teams to play northern teams to show them who was boss. Looking back, it was all we had to complete with since our schools, salaries, businesses, standard of living, and virtually everything else, was lagging far behind the north at that time.

It seems there is still some need to use football in the south today to feel superior. And you are right, other sections of the country just don’t have the same ferocity of commitment to college football.

But, there are economic interests in other parts of the country. And the resources to defend those interests are formidable. I could see the SEC crossing a line in which it is no longer about football or regional pride and some special interests in the rest of the country could get real busy, if you know what I mean.

Just opinions on my part also and not intended as a slur against any group.

 

[UgaBlows]

Maybe. The SEC does have an issue that isolation would expose. They are regional. Would the entire country pay attention to an Southern playoff? Would the entire country continue paying attention to a Southern playoff if it is Alabama/LSU/Florida/mutts every single year? Would a top rated player from the Midwest want to try to be in the "Southern" playoffs, or would they want to try to be in the "National" playoffs that they grow up watching? If the SEC were to add a few Midwest teams and a few West Coast teams, then the alliance would not be as powerful.

The SEC can make marketing claims about being the best chance to make the NFL. Other conferences can make marketing claims about being great chances to make the NFL also. Looking at number of people drafted in 2021, the SEC had about 20 more than the Big10 and the ACC. Just rough even, purely statistical numbers about 21% of SEC players are drafted, but about 14% of ACC are drafted. In reality, I don't think it makes a huge difference. It isn't a random selection of equal pieces. The reason that the SEC has had more people get drafted isn't because of something the SEC is doing, it is because more draft worthy players choose to go to the SEC.

There’s a bit of proof of this problem for them, iirc the National championship games that were SEC vs. SEC had some of the worst ratings of all title games on record. The rest of the country is not really that invested in them, and/or are completely sick of them.

 

[MidtownJacket]

I also think the work ADTS is doing to tie into the startup culture at GT is going to pay off. BiGTime in the coming years. I know a few guys from my time at GT who started a SaaS company that is now valued at over $500M. That’s how we are going to compete with the legacy oil money at UT Austin

 

[UgaBlows]

If the best players are all going to the SEC because it's considered the "A-League" by HS players and coaches...absolutely the whole country would watch. That doesn't mean they wouldn't watch their own teams too, but the SEC would become a de facto semi-pro league. This is something we do not want to happen.

I foresee the solution to this to be a combination of negotiation and coercion. I could also see state legislators getting involved at some point.

If the SEC managed to glom all the fb factories from all over the country somehow (and I assume they would kick out a few non-factory schools/teams also?) and formed their own semi-pro league, yes they would pull in all the top talent, especially the kids who don’t care about education or consider themselves NFL bound. The schools left would form up a new league with divisions and yes there would be less top-tier talent To recruit but who cares it’s all relative in the end.

 

[Technut1990]

I don’t see this as pro or con any conference. I see this as business. Coke vs Pepsi, Ford vs GMC etc…

The Alliance is a move to counter The SECs move, The SEC will now counter The Alliance.

it’s nothing more and nothing less, neither side will sit still until they have to and that’s the ultimate goal of both advisories now, to minimize the other via crippling or assimilation.

The details of this Alliance better reveal some sort of legal binder between the Alliance members if not then they shouldn’t even trust each other.

 

[Buzztheirazz]

I also think the work ADTS is doing to tie into the startup culture at GT is going to pay off. BiGTime in the coming years. I know a few guys from my time at GT who started a SaaS company that is now valued at over $500M. That’s how we are going to compete with the legacy oil money at UT Austin

What’s SaaS?

 

[MidtownJacket]

What’s SaaS?

Software as a service. Essentially subscription based software.

 

[slugboy]

What’s SaaS?

Software As A Service (Internet/Cloud applications)

 

[Technut1990]

The very reason that The SEC has enjoyed dominance for years is that it has been a sports conference. The others are trying to, for better or worse, field teams with more educated members. I’m not trying to degrade people but there is a clear difference between going to college for a shot at the NFL and going to college for employment in a technology field if your pro chances don’t work out.

As long as there’s Georgia, Tech in general will not get a majority of the “pure athletes” who are focused on their command of the game. The converse of that is if education is the main factor Georgia won’t get as many students focused on high tech studies.

The ACC and others seem to want to compete without really competing

 

[Coloradojacket]

This thread is stuck going in circles.

Many are pointing out that the ACC still has some cards to play, that GORs actually do mean what they say, and it is good for football to keep the ACC from owning everything.

A couple of others are saying the game is over, the SEC won, just accept it.

And I guess we are stuck in this endless back and forth until new information comes in. But my bet is that the southeast is not the only section of the country with smart people, good lawyers and lots of money.

And I keep looking at this going...the SEC won what? Isn't this about winning and losing football games? The SEC is Bama, plain and simple. three fourths of the conference is vey comparable to the ACC. In fact I would argue that Miami, UNC are probably closing in on UGA. And As I said, let's see what happens 9/4. UGA was a so so team last year.
Money, There is only one Saban out there now and all the money in the world can not buy you wins unless you find a very good coach. And frankly there aren't that many out there.

 

[MountainBuzzMan]

I also think the work ADTS is doing to tie into the startup culture at GT is going to pay off. BiGTime in the coming years. I know a few guys from my time at GT who started a SaaS company that is now valued at over $500M. That’s how we are going to compete with the legacy oil money at UT Austin

This is not all Georgia Tech, but a rising tide lifts all boats. ATL is definitely the startup hub of the South and rivaling other regions outside of Silicon Valley.

Georgia startups land more venture capital in first half of 2021 than all of last year​

https://www.bizjournals.com/atlanta/news/2021/07/14/georgia-startups-raise-capital-pitchbook.html

 

[bobongo]

Interesting article on ACC expansion from the News and Observer (Raleigh):

MSN

"...is there a breaking point elsewhere in college athletics as the traditional bonds that brought like-minded schools together in athletic competition are replaced by TV networks and numbers on a balance sheet? Local rivalries — within states, across borders — have always been the plasma of college sports. Their increasing deprioritization is a risk, even if no one has yet paid a real price for it."