Expansion Talk 2021

[Vespidae]

To move the needle, we would have to add one or more teams in the top 20 ratings/subscribers/revenue–really multiple teams.

This is really the crux of it. The only reason for the ACC to add anyone is to force a renegotiation of their existing deal. If they can’t, it makes no sense.

But, if they can’t... it makes sense for Clemson and FSU to bolt for the SEC and hope the ACC collapses. There are no good options and the ACC is stuck with a bad deal for a while ... plenty of time for the SEC and BIg10 to cash in.

This is the part of college sports that sucks.

 

[stinger 1957]

The part that "sucks" for me is Swafford and the "tobacco road mafia" and what they did to us(Conference)

 

[bobongo]

As someone who grew up watching Yale v. UCONN and Yale v. Harvard in the Yale Bowl, quality of play is important.

Yeah, their quality of play is quite a bit above those ridiculous examples.

 

[bobongo]

Leadership. Courage. Vision. The type of men who see an opportunity to get a Texas and OU when everyone else was doing nothing. This is what we are waiting for. Not the reactionary type of administrator who will get a Cincinnati or WV or Mercer after the fact because they feel pressured to "do something".

"Mercer". Right.

 

[Northeast Stinger]

What does WV bring ?

Attendance Rankings No. 1-130: 2019 CFN Five-Year Program Analysis

How many people show up? As a part of the CFN Five-Year Program Analysis, the attendance is a factor. Here are the rankings from No. 1-130. Contact @PeteFiutak Beyond wins and losses, attendance mi…

collegefootballnews.com

There are only 3 ACC teams with higher attendance per game.

they bring fans and alumni and that’s what the conference needs and they are bigger than at least half of our current member schools

Funny how we used to make fun of the attendance at Miami. West Virginia averages around 900 more in the stands and does not even come close to having the same brand recognition. I say this not because I hate WV. I just don’t understand the hard selling job and the idea we have to rush out and add them.

I would rather figure out how to add Penn State, number 3 in the nation in terms of fan support.

 

[Northeast Stinger]

What does WV do for the conference that those schools do not?

It sounds like you are saying we MUST add somebody NOW. If we don't add someone NOW we are in trouble. It must happen within two minutes or we are going to be lost forever. That is what would hurt us. If there is a bigger plan that WVU is part of, then maybe we could add them. We should not tie the conference to more schools until and unless there is a real plan more than: OMG, WE HAVE TO HAVE THE SAME NUMBER OF TEAMS AS THE SEC!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! OMG, WHO WANTS TO JOIN THE ACC?

It isn't hate for WVU. I just do not see a big upside to WVU. I don't think they will immediately add $35 million to ACC revenue, and if they don't it will take money away from every other team in the ACC.

As one of our moderators pointed out, when a competing conference adds Texas and Oklahoma you need to respond big or you just look desperate.

 

[Northeast Stinger]

RonJohn,

ive repeatedly said we need to add 4-6 teams. I never said we only need to add WV. I suspect that if they came in with 3-5 others that it would be part of a plan.

nor have I said it needs to be done in 2 minutes, you decided that on your own. However I will tell you Somethings going on with The PAC 12 and the Big 12. Their commissions met for 6 hours yesterday and neither will comment other than to say they spoke of mutual interest. The urgency is that while y’all advocate waiting, the other conferences are actually doing something. If the ACC waits on ND and they don’t come who do you want ? While y’all wait all the other conferences are working on improving themselves. That means exclusively dealing with the teams THEY work out deals with. That means we have less to choose from when that happens. How does that help us ?

this waiting thing will result in The ACC being the current Big 12. If we aren’t progressing we are falling behind. Y’all seem to think Clemson and Fla St will stand pat and watch millions more go to the other conference, they won’t. They will eventually do exactly what Texas and Oklahoma did and when they do half of you will still be saying let’s wait.

there are no big schools besides ND, y’all better hope they come, if they don’t The ACC standing pat as others move swiftly will in fact kill this conference. If that happens Tech will automatically lose the 32 million or so that they do get from the ACC and they will be looking for a conference who will accept them.

WV brings everything the ACC needs except big money TV, why more conference fans and more notoriety is a problem in this landscape I don’t know. But yall are right about nobody chasing them down, everyone was apparently chasing Texas and Oklahoma instead, so now what ? Who does the ACC turn to since WV isn’t good enough for a conference with a bottom half as bad as The ACC.

“Don’t just stand there, do something” is rarely a meaningful plan.

 

[Northeast Stinger]

Once again, sure hope the ACC is working on something. The time of college football being driven by natural rivalries is almost over. Duke is one of Tech’s oldest rivals but their is little interest (money) in it. Georgia would just as soon drop Tech altogether. But SEC viewers are absolutely salivating over playing Texas or Oklahoma.

Old rivalries are dying in this “brand” new world. Bring in a couple of big brand names to the ACC and the money will flow. I’m going to go out on a limb here and say that even Alabama is reaching the point where playing Auburn does not mean as much to the younger fan base as playing Oklahoma. Brand is everything now and the ACC needs to work on brand more than anything.

 

[UgaBlows]

Funny how we used to make fun of the attendance at Miami. West Virginia averages around 900 more in the stands and does not even come close to having the same brand recognition. I say this not because I hate WV. I just don’t understand the hard selling job and the idea we have to rush out and add them.

I would rather figure out how to add Penn State, number 3 in the nation in terms of fan support.

Penn St is not leaving the BIG10, it’s not happening people.

 

[Northeast Stinger]

Penn St is not leaving the BIG10, it’s not happening people.

It’s more likely to happen than WV joining the ACC, which is kind of the point.

 

[TooTall]

I’m going to go out on a limb here and say that even Alabama is reaching the point where playing Auburn does not mean as much to the younger fan base as playing Oklahoma.

Obviously you've never lived in Alabama to make such an ignorant comment.

 

[ChicagobasedJacket]

So just curious, other than Notre Dame, who exactly should be added to get a not middle of the road team. We can say UCF, but what happens to their record playing in a Power 5 conference. And we will not move any of the B1G teams.

It’s simple, you don’t add any team that does not increase the payout, period. It makes zero sense to reduce the payout for the sake of adding a team.

 

[Technut1990]

Why do I have to have a solution to counter your suggestion? Right. I don't.

WV brings nothing to the table. Who cares about gate revenue at another school? It has no relevance to our ability to get more money. Who cares about their merchandise revenue? It has no bearing on our revenue. They're not going to move the needle with ESPN, so there's no reason to add a middle-of-the-road team.

You actually don’t even have to talk about this but I figured since you are that maybe you could give your side of why a school the size of WV dosent bring anything. All I hear is they don’t bring anything, I’d like to know what you realistically think “bringing something“ actually is. Gate revenue pays every team that visits and given the size of the gate I’d say that’s something the conference could use. I really doubt that you apply an all or nothing attitude toward your personal life. I bet you take the $ 50 dollar bill despite there being someone out there with a $100 dollar bill. A bird in the hand kinda thing.

if you would like to continue the conversation, despite not having to provide a solution, Id also like to know how you propose luring any Big 10 or SEC team to a conference that’s 20 to 30 million per team less in revenue and can’t redo its TV deal until 2036.

or easier I guess, just name the school that The ACC can draw that ESPN deems worthy enough to redo the contract for.

 

[Technut1990]

It’s simple, you don’t add any team that does not increase the payout, period. It makes zero sense to reduce the payout for the sake of adding a team.

is that what Miami and Fla St got us ? Things change, prosperous leaders see the tide and steer into it they dont go with the flow.

all this talk about adding to the payout is devoid of reality. There is no team currently that can come to the ACC and add to TV payouts. They aren’t coming folks, they ain’t paying their own GORs penalties to come to the ACC it’s that simple. That means we improve our National appeal via other methods. Creating attention via match ups and adding teams from “new” areas. Exploiting old rivalries. You have to create interest before people will pay for it.

 

[Technut1990]

“Don’t just stand there, do something” is rarely a meaningful plan.

Come on Stinger, now you ? I’ve never said that or even implied it. Once again I’ll state what I’ve said. Add 4-6 teams, recreate old rivalries, target large middle tier teams that have solid fan support and look forward rather than backwards. Despite popular belief ESPN dosent create fan support it exploits it.

I surely dont mind Penn St or ND coming in but Penn St ain’t paying their buyout to join the ACC and they ain’t giving up their share of the Big 10 Money. It dosent look like ND is coming in at all

to say I advocate a “do something” plan is really ignoring my point.

we can play this upper crust they ain’t good enough for us all y’all like and as we do it, nobody will break their contracts to come as all the other conferences add to theirs by taking the teams y’all dont think are good enough. WV will go somewhere (somebody will want them ) and if Kansas goes to the Big 10 as some have said they are, it will happen sooner rather than later.

 

[Technut1990]

It’s more likely to happen than WV joining the ACC, which is kind of the point.

So you think it’s more likely Penn St pays what ? 60 million to get out of a deal that pays them 20 million a year more than the conference they would come to ? More likely to exit the 2nd richest conference in the country to enter the 4th richest ? This expectation of a school that’s expressed absolutely no interest in joining the ACC. thats more likely than WV joining ? The same WV that’s begged to come to the ACC ?

 

[yeti92]

WV will go somewhere (somebody will want them ) and if Kansas goes to the Big 10 as some have said they are, it will happen sooner rather than later.

No. literally no P4 conference wants WV, that's what you are not getting, their commercial value is too low. You are obsessing over gate #s and merchandise sales, but that is small potatoes compared to the brand's ability to draw paying customers and get money from ESPN. ESPN will not increase its payout to the ACC for adding WV, so every current conference member would take a hit to their payouts if they were added and what WV does in merchandise or at the gate does not put money back in our pockets. ESPN does not gain enough additional subscribers to care about WV, and they already own AAC rights so adding teams like UCF again does nothing, they aren't going to increase our payout for adding a team they already own the rights to at a much lower price.

 

[RonJohn]

Gate revenue pays every team that visits and given the size of the gate I’d say that’s something the conference could use.

It does not work that way. When GT travels to an away game, they do not get paid. Conference games are set up as four-home-four-away every year. Other games are usually negotiated as home-away. GT plays one game against that team at home and one against that team away. Sometimes with a lesser team it will be 2 home games for one away game. GT pays the FCS schools to come to a single home game instead of playing an away game at their stadium.

GT keeps every single dollar of gate revenue, it isn't shared with the conference. GT keeps every single dollar of refreshment/merchandise sales, it isn't shared with the conference. The only revenue shared with the conference is media and post-season play (bowls, tournament, etc) money.

 

[orientalnc]

If the Kansas stories are correct, expect Iowa State to join the B1G as well. That would pretty much close the door on ND becoming a member.

These four 16 member conferences (PAC-12 will soon be 16 if this happens) are not going to let a single independent school keep them out of a four team CFP. The pressure on ND will continue to build.

The puzzlement I still have about all this is just wondering how much does the money really control everything. Would a WVU invitation from the ACC entice Penn State to move to the ACC? From a financial POV that makes no sense. But being part of a conference centered around the mid-Atlantic with Pitt, VT, UVa, WVU, and Syracuse (all very close to them) might be very attractive. At some point the university presidents have to ask themselves whether football is really about money or is it a diversion for students and a nice way to stay attached to alums. Does football make Penn State a better school? If not, what about football makes the school a better place to spend four years getting a PSU degree?

 

[UgaBlows]

Our best (or realistically) only hope is that the BIG comes calling for Clemson, FSU, UM and GT. I just don’t see UNC/Duke or UVA/VT separating. Maybe though, money talks and obviously they could still play an end of the year rivalry game whether they were in the same conf or not.