Expansion Talk 2021

[orientalnc]

And they have a lot of fans around Atlanta,

There are two WVU fans in Oriental and four for GT. This sample shows there are twice as many Tech fans as WVU fans.

 

[forensicbuzz]

then prepare to be weaker, you don't get stronger denying the obvious. If we are talking about sports, which I don’t think we are, West Virginia has no less appeal than Duke, Wake, Syracuse or Boston College. If this anti WV stuff is about education then The ACC isn’t going to compete in the big conference thing anyway, better to simply acknowledge that The ACC is an Ivy League and move on

That's your opinion, and I don't agree with it. WV brings nothing to the ACC. They're a middle-of-the-conference type team in a conference of middle-of-the-conference teams. If Duke, WF, BC, Pitt, Syracuse weren't already in the ACC, we wouldn't be hyping these schools as prospective adds. If we're going to add, it has to be marquis schools, not middle-of-the-conference schools. We're better off just staying where we are than adding the likes of WV.

 

[Technut1990]

That's your opinion, and I don't agree with it. WV brings nothing to the ACC. They're a middle-of-the-conference type team in a conference of middle-of-the-conference teams. If Duke, WF, BC, Pitt, Syracuse weren't already in the ACC, we wouldn't be hyping these schools as prospective adds. If we're going to add, it has to be marquis schools, not middle-of-the-conference schools. We're better off just staying where we are than adding the likes of WV.

no my opinion is that we have to increase revenue somehow. I’ve said multiple times that we need a bigger fan base. alums that can contribute to one school benefits all the schools and since all I’m getting is ‘WV brings nothing’ without someone explaining why that is. Those against them ignore the fan base and gate numbers, I’ll continue to wonder why everyone hates WV. They are more popular than half the ACC and the numbers show it. The fact of the matter is that The ACC did invite Duke, Wake etc…. and given there has been no Duke onslaughts since I was born it tells me they all got in with less to offer.

all these anti WV folks seem to think marquee schools are beating the door down to get in, who and when ?

what’s the solution ? Do we stay small and hope someone comes knocking ? Are the big schools likely to come 5,10 or 15 years from now when the conference is less appealing ? Is some massive ESPN payout coming in 2036 ? Is all this ‘not now’ stuff a wait for ND ? We can take schools now and ND if they ever want in cant we ?

what exactly changes by waiting ? What are we waiting on ?

 

[forensicbuzz]

no my opinion is that we have to increase revenue somehow. I’ve said multiple times that we need a bigger fan base. alums that can contribute to one school benefits all the schools and since all I’m getting is ‘WV brings nothing’ without someone explaining why that is. Those against them ignore the fan base and gate numbers, I’ll continue to wonder why everyone hates WV. They are more popular than half the ACC and the numbers show it. The fact of the matter is that The ACC did invite Duke, Wake etc…. and given there has been no Duke onslaughts since I was born it tells me they all got in with less to offer.

all these anti WV folks seem to think marquee schools are beating the door down to get in, who and when ?

what’s the solution ? Do we stay small and hope someone comes knocking ? Are the big schools likely to come 5,10 or 15 years from now when the conference is less appealing ? Is some massive ESPN payout coming in 2036 ? Is all this ‘not now’ stuff a wait for ND ? We can take schools now and ND if they ever want in cant we ?

what exactly changes by waiting ? What are we waiting on ?

WV does not increase our ACC revenue. WV does not increase our fanbase. WV does not increase our alumni base. There is NO tangible benefit from adding WV to the ACC. I'd add a ton of B12 teams way before I added WV. Their geographic location adds nothing to us. They're a middle-of-the-conference type team, the same as Texas Tech, OK State, IA State, UCF, etc. ESPN isn't going to renegotiate our contract with them by adding these teams. If we're doing this for $$$, then WV is a bust.

 

[Technut1990]

What does WV do for the conference that those schools do not?

It sounds like you are saying we MUST add somebody NOW. If we don't add someone NOW we are in trouble. It must happen within two minutes or we are going to be lost forever. That is what would hurt us. If there is a bigger plan that WVU is part of, then maybe we could add them. We should not tie the conference to more schools until and unless there is a real plan more than: OMG, WE HAVE TO HAVE THE SAME NUMBER OF TEAMS AS THE SEC!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! OMG, WHO WANTS TO JOIN THE ACC?

It isn't hate for WVU. I just do not see a big upside to WVU. I don't think they will immediately add $35 million to ACC revenue, and if they don't it will take money away from every other team in the ACC.

RonJohn,

ive repeatedly said we need to add 4-6 teams. I never said we only need to add WV. I suspect that if they came in with 3-5 others that it would be part of a plan.

nor have I said it needs to be done in 2 minutes, you decided that on your own. However I will tell you Somethings going on with The PAC 12 and the Big 12. Their commissions met for 6 hours yesterday and neither will comment other than to say they spoke of mutual interest. The urgency is that while y’all advocate waiting, the other conferences are actually doing something. If the ACC waits on ND and they don’t come who do you want ? While y’all wait all the other conferences are working on improving themselves. That means exclusively dealing with the teams THEY work out deals with. That means we have less to choose from when that happens. How does that help us ?

this waiting thing will result in The ACC being the current Big 12. If we aren’t progressing we are falling behind. Y’all seem to think Clemson and Fla St will stand pat and watch millions more go to the other conference, they won’t. They will eventually do exactly what Texas and Oklahoma did and when they do half of you will still be saying let’s wait.

there are no big schools besides ND, y’all better hope they come, if they don’t The ACC standing pat as others move swiftly will in fact kill this conference. If that happens Tech will automatically lose the 32 million or so that they do get from the ACC and they will be looking for a conference who will accept them.

WV brings everything the ACC needs except big money TV, why more conference fans and more notoriety is a problem in this landscape I don’t know. But yall are right about nobody chasing them down, everyone was apparently chasing Texas and Oklahoma instead, so now what ? Who does the ACC turn to since WV isn’t good enough for a conference with a bottom half as bad as The ACC.

 

[Technut1990]

WV does not increase our ACC revenue. WV does not increase our fanbase. WV does not increase our alumni base. There is NO tangible benefit from adding WV to the ACC. I'd add a ton of B12 teams way before I added WV. Their geographic location adds nothing to us. They're a middle-of-the-conference type team, the same as Texas Tech, OK State, IA State, UCF, etc. ESPN isn't going to renegotiate our contract with them by adding these teams. If we're doing this for $$$, then WV is a bust.

i guess I’m totally clueless. A school with a much bigger following, more gate revenue, more merch revenue, a better record than Texas over 10 years and with 26,000 students dosent help a conference with Duke, Wake, BC and Syracuse in it. Ok if y’all think so.

Suggestions as to who helps us please ? And it should coattail with who will come.

 

[RonJohn]

RonJohn,

ive repeatedly said we need to add 4-6 teams. I never said we only need to add WV. I suspect that if they came in with 3-5 others that it would be part of a plan.

nor have I said it needs to be done in 2 minutes, you decided that on your own. However I will tell you Somethings going on with The PAC 12 and the Big 12. Their commissions met for 6 hours yesterday and neither will comment other than to say they spoke of mutual interest. The urgency is that while y’all advocate waiting, the other conferences are actually doing something. If the ACC waits on ND and they don’t come who do you want ? While y’all wait all the other conferences are working on improving themselves. That means exclusively dealing with the teams THEY work out deals with. That means we have less to choose from when that happens. How does that help us ?

this waiting thing will result in The ACC being the current Big 12. If we aren’t progressing we are falling behind. Y’all seem to think Clemson and Fla St will stand pat and watch millions more go to the other conference, they won’t. They will eventually do exactly what Texas and Oklahoma did and when they do half of you will still be saying let’s wait.

there are no big schools besides ND, y’all better hope they come, if they don’t The ACC standing pat as others move swiftly will in fact kill this conference. If that happens Tech will automatically lose the 32 million or so that they do get from the ACC and they will be looking for a conference who will accept them.

WV brings everything the ACC needs except big money TV, why more conference fans and more notoriety is a problem in this landscape I don’t know. But yall are right about nobody chasing them down, everyone was apparently chasing Texas and Oklahoma instead, so now what ? Who does the ACC turn to since WV isn’t good enough for a conference with a bottom half as bad as The ACC.

I am not advocating waiting. I am saying that waiting is better than doing "something" out of desperation. I have said a few times that a four conference alliance against the SEC would be a good move for the other P5 conferences if they really believe the SEC is trying to completely take over. Have the Big12, Pac12, Big10, and ACC: form an alliance, break away from the NCAA, and exclude the SEC. That would be a bold move and a strong arm counter to the moves the SEC is making.

Adding additional middle of the road teams to the ACC is not a bold move. It is trying to play the same game the SEC is playing, but with much smaller chess pieces. If you want to catch up to the SEC, WVU doesn't do that. WVU doesn't equal Texas or Oklahoma. Combining with the Pac12, Big10, and Big12/orAAC to exclude the SEC and have a competing league would more than counter the TX, OK move by the SEC.

EDIT: If the four conferences did that, then ND would almost be forced to join a conference. They wouldn't be able to compete for the SEC championship without being in the SEC, and they wouldn't be able to compete in the "National CFP" if it is only made up of the P4 conference champions. All four of the P4 conferences could get to 16 teams. The P4 could add ND, merge the Big12/AAC and add some of the other teams from the Big12/AAC to get to 16 per P4 conference.

 

[forensicbuzz]

i guess I’m totally clueless. A school with a much bigger following, more gate revenue, more merch revenue, a better record than Texas over 10 years and with 26,000 students dosent help a conference with Duke, Wake, BC and Syracuse in it. Ok if y’all think so.

Suggestions as to who helps us please ? And it should coattail with who will come.

Why do I have to have a solution to counter your suggestion? Right. I don't.

WV brings nothing to the table. Who cares about gate revenue at another school? It has no relevance to our ability to get more money. Who cares about their merchandise revenue? It has no bearing on our revenue. They're not going to move the needle with ESPN, so there's no reason to add a middle-of-the-road team.

 

[GoJacketsInRaleigh]

Why do I have to have a solution to counter your suggestion? Right. I don't.

WV brings nothing to the table. Who cares about gate revenue at another school? It has no relevance to our ability to get more money. Who cares about their merchandise revenue? It has no bearing on our revenue. They're not going to move the needle with ESPN, so there's no reason to add a middle-of-the-road team.

Yeah. This is so odd. We should add WVU because they will sell a few extra raccoon hats? Bizarre thinking

 

[Coloradojacket]

Why do I have to have a solution to counter your suggestion? Right. I don't.

WV brings nothing to the table. Who cares about gate revenue at another school? It has no relevance to our ability to get more money. Who cares about their merchandise revenue? It has no bearing on our revenue. They're not going to move the needle with ESPN, so there's no reason to add a middle-of-the-road team.

So just curious, other than Notre Dame, who exactly should be added to get a not middle of the road team. We can say UCF, but what happens to their record playing in a Power 5 conference. And we will not move any of the B1G teams.

 

[bobongo]

So just curious, other than Notre Dame, who exactly should be added to get a not middle of the road team. We can say UCF, but what happens to their record playing in a Power 5 conference. And we will not move any of the B1G teams.

In order to look into the future, you have to look at potential. UCF is on a steep upward trajectory, they have 70,000 students, they have made a strong commitment to football, they have a stadium that was designed for a future upgrade to 65,000 seats, and they are smack in the middle of Florida, in between Miami and FSU.

What I'm saying is that snapping them up now is one of those moves that will be roundly panned now, and later hailed as ingenious foresight.

 

[Coloradojacket]

In order to look into the future, you have to look at potential. UCF is on a steep upward trajectory, they have 70,000 students, they have made a strong commitment to football, they have a stadium that was designed for a future upgrade to 65,000 seats, and they are smack in the middle of Florida, in between Miami and FSU.

What I'm saying is that snapping them up now is one of those moves that will be roundly panned now, and later hailed as ingenious foresight.

I don't disagree but all I am saying is don't look at their past record. It is hard to win moving to a Power 5 conference.

 

[bobongo]

Yeah. This is so odd. We should add WVU because they will sell a few extra raccoon hats? Bizarre thinking

No, we should consider them because they will provide another rival for UVA, VT, and Pitt, thus adding excitement to the conference which equals fans and the money they bring, In all this talk about TV markets, we're forgetting what made college football great to begin with. Provide exciting matchups, and the rest will fall into place. How many big TV markets is the SEC in, besides Atlanta? Does it really matter?

 

[bobongo]

I don't disagree but all I am saying is don't look at their past record. It is hard to win moving to a Power 5 conference.

They've more than held their own against Power 5 opponents, and besides, if you put them in a power 5 conference their recruiting is going to vastly improve immediately.

 

[forensicbuzz]

So just curious, other than Notre Dame, who exactly should be added to get a not middle of the road team. We can say UCF, but what happens to their record playing in a Power 5 conference. And we will not move any of the B1G teams.

Why do we HAVE to add? Just because the SEC is adding 2 teams doesn't mean we have to. Besides, who knows what the School and League leadership are working on? I know JP said "Time to Lead" so I expect that the League is going to do something. Hopefully, it's something bold and innovative. That's what he's known for.

 

[forensicbuzz]

No, we should consider them because they will provide another rival for UVA, VT, and Pitt, thus adding excitement to the conference which equals fans and the money they bring, In all this talk about TV markets, we're forgetting what made college football great to begin with. Provide exciting matchups, and the rest will fall into place. How many big TV markets is the SEC in, besides Atlanta? Does it really matter?

As someone who grew up watching Yale v. UCONN and Yale v. Harvard in the Yale Bowl, quality of play is important.

 

[stech81]

WV does not increase our ACC revenue. WV does not increase our fanbase. WV does not increase our alumni base. There is NO tangible benefit from adding WV to the ACC. I'd add a ton of B12 teams way before I added WV. Their geographic location adds nothing to us. They're a middle-of-the-conference type team, the same as Texas Tech, OK State, IA State, UCF, etc. ESPN isn't going to renegotiate our contract with them by adding these teams. If we're doing this for $$$, then WV is a bust.

Fact other than ND no team we can add would help the ACC, the ones that could are in the Big 10 or SEC and none of those would leave to come to the ACC. For you younger Tech fans that feel sorry for WV in 10 years you will know how they feel. Lots thought that man in little blue dress that run the ACC did good but now we will see he mess us up , help ND but slowly kill the ACC.

 

[4shotB]

What are we waiting on ?

Leadership. Courage. Vision. The type of men who see an opportunity to get a Texas and OU when everyone else was doing nothing. This is what we are waiting for. Not the reactionary type of administrator who will get a Cincinnati or WV or Mercer after the fact because they feel pressured to "do something".

 

[g0lftime]

yep we are being held hostage for meaningful expansion by ND. So far not a lot of good options. They hold the high.cards for now.

 

[slugboy]

So just curious, other than Notre Dame, who exactly should be added to get a not middle of the road team. We can say UCF, but what happens to their record playing in a Power 5 conference. And we will not move any of the B1G teams.

To move the needle, we would have to add one or more teams in the top 20 ratings/subscribers/revenue–really multiple teams. Those teams are either Notre Dame, or upper teams in the B1G or SEC, or the very top few teams in the Pac12.
The SEC took the two top teams in the Big 12. Poaching top teams is the most effective move, and the SEC just poached the easiest game, and two of the biggest targets. To do something similar, we’d need to bag Michigan and OSU.
There are no good easy moves. All the good moves are incredibly difficult.
If there is an move that doesn’t seem insane, it’s not actually good in this realignment game.