Expansion Talk 2021

bobongo

bobongo

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GoJacketsInRaleigh said:
First, no one wants WVU. They would suck up money and provide nothing.
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You may be right that no one wants WVU, but I think that might be a mistake. The problem with all this conference realignment is that no one is paying any attention to the need for rivalries which are usually regional. WVU would be an instant rival of Virginia and VT, and they fall right in the middle of the ACC's footprint. They have a 60,000 seat stadium that they average filling to about 95% capacity. They're also in a beautiful part of the country. I know the academics are weak, but if the ACC can abide Louisville, it can abide WVU. I think they would add a lot more to the conference than is generally realized.
 
Coloradojacket

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bobongo said:
You may be right that no one wants WVU, but I think that might be a mistake. The problem with all this conference realignment is that no one is paying any attention to the need for rivalries which are usually regional. WVU would be an instant rival of Virginia and VT, and they fall right in the middle of the ACC's footprint. They have a 60,000 seat stadium that they average filling to about 95% capacity. They're also in a beautiful part of the country. I know the academics are weak, but if the ACC can abide Louisville, it can abide WVU. I think they would add a lot more to the conference than is generally realized.
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WVA and Pitt are the rivals....The backyard brawl as it was known.
 
bobongo

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Coloradojacket said:
WVA and Pitt are the rivals....The backyard brawl as it was known.
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Indeed, and WVA would replace a void left in that area by the departure of Maryland.

Nobody's paying much attention to natural regional rivals in all the alignment talk, and I think that may prove in the long run to be a mistake. They're paying so much attention to the immediate $$ gains of adding major schools halfway across the country, and in it all have forgotten what makes college football great - the rivalries.
 

stinger 1957

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I think that Network TV has a rough go ahead of it self,Just wondering if the future of college football TV lies in the conference networks. If I'm right and I don't know that I am, then the conference sports networks will become really a big thing and where the money will be. Live attendance at the games has been dropping I have heard , and I think that trend continues and that the stadiums will become a place of entertainment as we are seeing now. Having said all of that it appears to me that you will need a full business model for the conference TV operations including marketing departments etc. To me it would make sense that you have conferences made up of 20 teams that the business model is taken care of, you would have more revenue to cover all the overhead and for distribution and particularly you need to cover larger areas of the country.
Having said all that, it makes sense to me that we wind up with two roughly 20 team conferences and I'm leaving everything west of the Big 12 out of this conversation, I just can't seem to grab hold of what to think about the West. There seems to be from the western boundary of the Big 12 conference to the eastern boundary of the pac-12 with the exception of Boulder a vast wasteland for college football and I don't see the pac-12 creating a lot of interest in recent years.
 
bobongo

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stinger 1957 said:
I think that Network TV has a rough go ahead of it self,Just wondering if the future of college football TV lies in the conference networks. If I'm right and I don't know that I am, then the conference sports networks will become really a big thing and where the money will be. Live attendance at the games has been dropping I have heard , and I think that trend continues and that the stadiums will become a place of entertainment as we are seeing now. Having said all of that it appears to me that you will need a full business model for the conference TV operations including marketing departments etc. To me it would make sense that you have conferences made up of 20 teams that the business model is taken care of, you would have more revenue to cover all the overhead and for distribution and particularly you need to cover larger areas of the country.
Having said all that, it makes sense to me that we wind up with two roughly 20 team conferences and I'm leaving everything west of the Big 12 out of this conversation, I just can't seem to grab hold of what to think about the West. There seems to be from the western boundary of the Big 12 conference to the eastern boundary of the pac-12 with the exception of Boulder a vast wasteland for college football and I don't see the pac-12 creating a lot of interest in recent years.
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20-team conferences with teams half way across the country will kill attendance. With dwindling crowds and the loss of natural rivalries, TV viewership will decline and the moguls of college football will have killed the goose that laid the golden egg. Then we can re-realign back to where we started from.
 

gtjackets930

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The idea I like most is an Atlantic-Pacific Coast Conference by attempting to raid the PAC-12.

Take the 14 teams we have now, add USC, UCLA, Oregon, & Washington. That gets you to 18. With the addition of Notre Dame's primary rival, you make it more enticing to them. The goal is to get to 20 by adding one more (assuming you can convince ND... big if).

With the last spot, you can go for rivalries vs. TV markets. Take WVU and you get some great old school Big East matchups. Take Navy to get a very strong service academy and you make it more enticing to Notre Dame to join. Plus, you add the Navy vs. Army game every other year and ND vs. Navy at least every other year from a TV standpoing.

At 20 teams, you have 4 pods with something like the below (this is pretty unbalanced, but you get the idea):

GT, FSU, Clemson, Wake, NC State
USC, UCLA, Wash, Oregon, ND
UNC, Duke, Wake, UVA, Louisville
Miami, BC, WVU/Navy, Pitt, VT

Travel isn't ideal for the west coast teams, but they get at least 4 games on the west coast against teams in their pod. Then the remaining 4/5 games are split home/away, so they're only leaving to go east for 2/3 games.
 
bobongo

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gtjackets930 said:
The idea I like most is an Atlantic-Pacific Coast Conference by attempting to raid the PAC-12.

Take the 14 teams we have now, add USC, UCLA, Oregon, & Washington. That gets you to 18. With the addition of Notre Dame's primary rival, you make it more enticing to them. The goal is to get to 20 by adding one more (assuming you can convince ND... big if).

With the last spot, you can go for rivalries vs. TV markets. Take WVU and you get some great old school Big East matchups. Take Navy to get a very strong service academy and you make it more enticing to Notre Dame to join. Plus, you add the Navy vs. Army game every other year and ND vs. Navy at least every other year from a TV standpoing.

At 20 teams, you have 4 pods with something like the below (this is pretty unbalanced, but you get the idea):

GT, FSU, Clemson, Wake, NC State
USC, UCLA, Wash, Oregon, ND
UNC, Duke, Wake, UVA, Louisville
Miami, BC, WVU/Navy, Pitt, VT

Travel isn't ideal for the west coast teams, but they get at least 4 games on the west coast against teams in their pod. Then the remaining 4/5 games are split home/away, so they're only leaving to go east for 2/3 games.
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Good grief, not teams just half way across the country, ALL the way across.
 

gtjackets930

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bobongo said:
Good grief, not teams just half way across the country, ALL the way across.
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Sadly pickings are slim on this side of the country with teams locked into big deals. It is not something I like at all, but is something that helps ACC teams remain financially competitive, no matter how ridiculous it might be.
 

GoJacketsInRaleigh

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gtjackets930 said:
The idea I like most is an Atlantic-Pacific Coast Conference by attempting to raid the PAC-12.

Take the 14 teams we have now, add USC, UCLA, Oregon, & Washington. That gets you to 18. With the addition of Notre Dame's primary rival, you make it more enticing to them. The goal is to get to 20 by adding one more (assuming you can convince ND... big if).

With the last spot, you can go for rivalries vs. TV markets. Take WVU and you get some great old school Big East matchups. Take Navy to get a very strong service academy and you make it more enticing to Notre Dame to join. Plus, you add the Navy vs. Army game every other year and ND vs. Navy at least every other year from a TV standpoing.

At 20 teams, you have 4 pods with something like the below (this is pretty unbalanced, but you get the idea):

GT, FSU, Clemson, Wake, NC State
USC, UCLA, Wash, Oregon, ND
UNC, Duke, Wake, UVA, Louisville
Miami, BC, WVU/Navy, Pitt, VT

Travel isn't ideal for the west coast teams, but they get at least 4 games on the west coast against teams in their pod. Then the remaining 4/5 games are split home/away, so they're only leaving to go east for 2/3 games.
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Forget WVU and Navy. Add Stanford. Put ND in an east coast pod. Let them play USC every season as a crossover.

They want to play games in major cities where their alumni are so they would want to play Miami, GT, BC, and Pittsburgh. Not saying that is their POD but a POD with ND, Miami, Pitt, BC, and Cuse with GT and USC as their crossovers are a pretty good starting point for them from a scheduling perspective.
 
bobongo

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gtjackets930 said:
Sadly pickings are slim on this side of the country with teams locked into big deals. It is not something I like at all, but is something that helps ACC teams remain financially competitive, no matter how ridiculous it might be.
Click to expand...
We don't need that many pickings. A 16-team conference is about as big as you can get without exceeding a sustainable size. WVU is right in our footprint, and everybody forgets about 60,000 student Central Florida. Put them in the ACC and they'll become an instant powerhouse, if they aren't already there.
 

gtyj18jr

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gtjackets930 said:
The idea I like most is an Atlantic-Pacific Coast Conference by attempting to raid the PAC-12.

Take the 14 teams we have now, add USC, UCLA, Oregon, & Washington. That gets you to 18. With the addition of Notre Dame's primary rival, you make it more enticing to them. The goal is to get to 20 by adding one more (assuming you can convince ND... big if).

With the last spot, you can go for rivalries vs. TV markets. Take WVU and you get some great old school Big East matchups. Take Navy to get a very strong service academy and you make it more enticing to Notre Dame to join. Plus, you add the Navy vs. Army game every other year and ND vs. Navy at least every other year from a TV standpoing.

At 20 teams, you have 4 pods with something like the below (this is pretty unbalanced, but you get the idea):

GT, FSU, Clemson, Wake, NC State
USC, UCLA, Wash, Oregon, ND
UNC, Duke, Wake, UVA, Louisville
Miami, BC, WVU/Navy, Pitt, VT
Click to expand...

I like this idea but I would go, in order of preference/invitation:

1. Notre Dame
2. USC
3. Stanford
4a. Penn State
4b. Oregon
4c. Washington
5. WVU
6. A Texas team

4 5-Team Pods(assuming we don’t get penn st)

Pacific: SC, Stanford, Notre Dame, Oregon, Washington
Old Big East: BC, Cuse, Pitt, Miami, WVU
Bball Schools: Wake, Duke, unc, ncsu, lville
South: GT, Clemson, Fsu, Virginia, VT,

Play your pod and one other for 9 game conference schedule. Play every team every three years. Home and home every six.
 
Vespidae

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bobongo said:
You may be right that no one wants WVU, but I think that might be a mistake. The problem with all this conference realignment is that no one is paying any attention to the need for rivalries which are usually regional. WVU would be an instant rival of Virginia and VT, and they fall right in the middle of the ACC's footprint. They have a 60,000 seat stadium that they average filling to about 95% capacity. They're also in a beautiful part of the country. I know the academics are weak, but if the ACC can abide Louisville, it can abide WVU. I think they would add a lot more to the conference than is generally realized.
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No one cares about regionalization anymore. If we are willing to have Syracuse in the ACC, we may as well include Nebraska. It's the same distance.
 
Vespidae

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gtyj18jr said:
I like this idea but I would go, in order of preference/invitation:

1. Notre Dame
2. USC
3. Stanford
4a. Penn State
4b. Oregon
4c. Washington
5. WVU
6. A Texas team

4 5-Team Pods(assuming we don’t get penn st)

Pacific: SC, Stanford, Notre Dame, Oregon, Washington
Old Big East: BC, Cuse, Pitt, Miami, WVU
Bball Schools: Wake, Duke, unc, ncsu, lville
South: GT, Clemson, Fsu, Virginia, VT,

Play your pod and one other for 9 game conference schedule. Play every team every three years. Home and home every six.
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It's ND or bust. If we don't get ND into the ACC on favorable terms, the best option for the ACC is to merge with the SEC. That combines Football and Basketball into a killer viewership model.

I fear if we don't get the football thing right, the ACC is toast. And the key is ND. (Same for ND btw. There is no way they compete for championships without being in a conference as there will be no one left to schedule.)
 
bobongo

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Vespidae said:
No one cares about regionalization anymore. If we are willing to have Syracuse in the ACC, we may as well include Nebraska. It's the same distance.
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Syracuse is on the east coast, thus fitting the footprint of the Atlantic Coast Conference. And my point is that maybe nobody does care about regionalization, but maybe they should, because in the long run they're going to find out that it matters.
 
Coloradojacket

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Vespidae said:
It's ND or bust. If we don't get ND into the ACC on favorable terms, the best option for the ACC is to merge with the SEC. That combines Football and Basketball into a killer viewership model.

I fear if we don't get the football thing right, the ACC is toast. And the key is ND. (Same for ND btw. There is no way they compete for championships without being in a conference as there will be no one left to schedule.)
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Well maybe the question should be what happens to Notre Dame if they don't join the ACC in football. Do they pull out of the ACC totally and join the Big10? Other than Ohio St. Big10 is not exactly a rising conference. How many viewers are their in Iowa, Nebraska? Heck Michigan is a dying state. I think ND has to make a move soon because.
 
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