Expansion Talk 2021

bobongo

Helluva Engineer
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3,201
They do if they have DirecTV, Dish, Comcast, Fubo, Spectrum, Cox, etc. They don't get a choice to exclude ESPN. You either get ESPN or you don't get TV service.
On a slightly different subject, how does the SEC command such a high payout? They're in such places as Starkville, Oxford, and Fayetteville. They're in few large media markets. How does that work?
 

RonJohn

Helluva Engineer
Messages
3,303
On a slightly different subject, how does the SEC command such a high payout? They're in such places as Starkville, Oxford, and Fayetteville. They're in few large media markets. How does that work?
They get more money for the secn than the ACC gets for the ACCN. Those numbers aren't public, but the sec supposedly got $0.25 from TV subscribers in non-sec areas and up to $1.40 for subscribers in sec areas in 2014. Those prices only go up. There are somewhere around 80 million pay TV subscribers in the US. Not trying to be anywhere close to exact numbers, but just speculating: If 60 million of those are above the lowest TV package(which is probably low), that means that the secn earns at least $15 million per month or $180 million per year using costs from 2014. The Southeast has about 27 percent of the US population. If you estimate that 20 percent are in an sec market, then the secn earns an extra $13.8 million per month or $167 million per year. (20% * 60 * $1.15) So the secn alone earns around $350 million per year for ESPN. That doesn't include the ESPN subscriber revenue portion that is allocated to the sec. That total ESPN subscriber revenue is estimated around $8 billion. For the new TV deal, I think ESPN was fighting to cut CBS out of sec carriage, so the sec was able to negotiate even more money out of them.

I have said this before, but that business model is crumbling. The great majority of ESPN's revenue comes from subscriber revenue instead of ads or anything else to do with ratings. The number of TV subscribers (traditional or over-the-top) is declining. It will be very difficult to ESPN to get the same revenue out of sports enthusiasts that they were able to get out of forcing non-sports enthusiasts to subsidize sports. I have been surprised that the model has lasted this long. I will be very surprised if the business model is still in effect in 2035 when the ACC contract ends.
 

bobongo

Helluva Engineer
Messages
3,201
They get more money for the secn than the ACC gets for the ACCN. Those numbers aren't public, but the sec supposedly got $0.25 from TV subscribers in non-sec areas and up to $1.40 for subscribers in sec areas in 2014. Those prices only go up. There are somewhere around 80 million pay TV subscribers in the US. Not trying to be anywhere close to exact numbers, but just speculating: If 60 million of those are above the lowest TV package(which is probably low), that means that the secn earns at least $15 million per month or $180 million per year using costs from 2014. The Southeast has about 27 percent of the US population. If you estimate that 20 percent are in an sec market, then the secn earns an extra $13.8 million per month or $167 million per year. (20% * 60 * $1.15) So the secn alone earns around $350 million per year for ESPN. That doesn't include the ESPN subscriber revenue portion that is allocated to the sec. That total ESPN subscriber revenue is estimated around $8 billion. For the new TV deal, I think ESPN was fighting to cut CBS out of sec carriage, so the sec was able to negotiate even more money out of them.

I have said this before, but that business model is crumbling. The great majority of ESPN's revenue comes from subscriber revenue instead of ads or anything else to do with ratings. The number of TV subscribers (traditional or over-the-top) is declining. It will be very difficult to ESPN to get the same revenue out of sports enthusiasts that they were able to get out of forcing non-sports enthusiasts to subsidize sports. I have been surprised that the model has lasted this long. I will be very surprised if the business model is still in effect in 2035 when the ACC contract ends.
They got $1.40 per subscriber in SEC areas. How much did the ACC get per subscriber in ACC areas?
 

BuzzDraft

Georgia Tech Fan
Messages
88
BY itself, I agree. But it would be an excellent complimentary addition to round out the field to 16 if the ACC could find a way to add ND.
Can you be transparent here... what is your connection to West Virginnie to be pushing so hard for a nearly impossible scenario?

Adding them would not raise the per-school payout for the existing members and the ACC is never going to add a team unless it does. They also are a very bad fit academically, which is a big part of the equation.

After that WV fan dropped his ratty jeans and took a dump in our band's seating area while they were performing on field during the bowl game years back, I want absolutely no association with a bunch of hilljacks from WV. It's bad enough they remain one of the 50 states.
 

bobongo

Helluva Engineer
Messages
3,201
Can you be transparent here... what is your connection to West Virginnie to be pushing so hard for a nearly impossible scenario?

Adding them would not raise the per-school payout for the existing members and the ACC is never going to add a team unless it does. They also are a very bad fit academically, which is a big part of the equation.

After that WV fan dropped his ratty jeans and took a dump in our band's seating area while they were performing on field during the bowl game years back, I want absolutely no association with a bunch of hilljacks from WV. It's bad enough they remain one of the 50 states.
Well, I understand. I always base my proclivities on the actions of one drunken hillbilly. I have no connection to WVA. I just think they would be a good fit for our conference, falling squarely in our footprint and having rivalry history with two of our members. I realize that most disagree.


Dave Wannstedt told 670TheScore in Chicago that he heard at the FOX meetings last week that West Virginia will be going to the ACC, Oklahoma State and Kansas State will head to the PAC 12, and Kansas and Iowa State to the Big Ten.

Obviously, this isn't much of a surprise to WVU fans considering the ACC has been their No. 1 destination spot since this conference realignment mess resurfaced. However, it is interesting that Wannstedt heard this at FOX meetings which means there must be some sort of momentum gaining between WVU and the ACC.
 

SOWEGA Jacket

Ramblin' Wreck
Messages
942
Some of y’all love your conspiracy of the “SEC” hype machine. The SEC should hype themselves. So should every other conference. I’m a business man. Y’all are mad at the SEC because they are good on the field and good in the meeting room. To me that’s just weak. The SEC was smart to partner with ESPN. Every other conference had the same opportunities to make deals for their conference and publicize their schools and teams. Y’all are mad because the SEC is good at business. The “It just means more” slogan is an incredible business slogan. Getting the SEC network up and running on every major cable company was a brilliant business move. Where is the ACC’s slogan or where was our network 5 years ago? And as far as I know the committee to anoint the 4 playoff teams isn’t run by the SEC. Your anger should be directed at the committee who puts more SEC teams in than at the SEC. I’m in rural South Georgia with an ok cable provider. The SEC network has been on my cable for years and is located with all the ESPN’s. I’ve had the BIG channel for several years and I can barely find it. Just got the ACC network 2 months ago and it’s with the non-digital channels. The point is y’all are just mad because the SEC puts more effort into their conference than others. It’s why I hated Swofford. I watched all this unfold under his watch and he did nothing. Maybe Phillips is actually smart and savvy. We’ll see. But if the best plan these other conferences have is this “alliance” then that will fail because you don’t better yourself by playing defense. You see it in business all the time.

And why everyone is focused on football, the SEC has taken over baseball and is now on par or slightly better than the ACC in hoops. As an ACC man from birth it makes me sick what Swofford allowed to happen under his 24 year term to this conference.
 

g0lftime

Helluva Engineer
Messages
2,908
Some of y’all love your conspiracy of the “SEC” hype machine. The SEC should hype themselves. So should every other conference. I’m a business man. Y’all are mad at the SEC because they are good on the field and good in the meeting room. To me that’s just weak. The SEC was smart to partner with ESPN. Every other conference had the same opportunities to make deals for their conference and publicize their schools and teams. Y’all are mad because the SEC is good at business. The “It just means more” slogan is an incredible business slogan. Getting the SEC network up and running on every major cable company was a brilliant business move. Where is the ACC’s slogan or where was our network 5 years ago? And as far as I know the committee to anoint the 4 playoff teams isn’t run by the SEC. Your anger should be directed at the committee who puts more SEC teams in than at the SEC. I’m in rural South Georgia with an ok cable provider. The SEC network has been on my cable for years and is located with all the ESPN’s. I’ve had the BIG channel for several years and I can barely find it. Just got the ACC network 2 months ago and it’s with the non-digital channels. The point is y’all are just mad because the SEC puts more effort into their conference than others. It’s why I hated Swofford. I watched all this unfold under his watch and he did nothing. Maybe Phillips is actually smart and savvy. We’ll see. But if the best plan these other conferences have is this “alliance” then that will fail because you don’t better yourself by playing defense. You see it in business all the time.

And why everyone is focused on football, the SEC has taken over baseball and is now on par or slightly better than the ACC in hoops. As an ACC man from birth it makes me sick what Swofford allowed to happen under his 24 year term to this conference.
The ACC stayed loyal to Raycom/Jefferson Pilot too long. It was all about televising basketball and heavily slanted to NC for many years. Swofford failed to see how much money was tied to football tv on more than a regional level. They may have been tied into broadcasting contracts that prevented going bigger.
 

forensicbuzz

Helluva Engineer
Messages
4,926
Location
North Shore, Chicago
Some of y’all love your conspiracy of the “SEC” hype machine. The SEC should hype themselves. So should every other conference. I’m a business man. Y’all are mad at the SEC because they are good on the field and good in the meeting room. To me that’s just weak. The SEC was smart to partner with ESPN. Every other conference had the same opportunities to make deals for their conference and publicize their schools and teams. Y’all are mad because the SEC is good at business. The “It just means more” slogan is an incredible business slogan. Getting the SEC network up and running on every major cable company was a brilliant business move. Where is the ACC’s slogan or where was our network 5 years ago? And as far as I know the committee to anoint the 4 playoff teams isn’t run by the SEC. Your anger should be directed at the committee who puts more SEC teams in than at the SEC. I’m in rural South Georgia with an ok cable provider. The SEC network has been on my cable for years and is located with all the ESPN’s. I’ve had the BIG channel for several years and I can barely find it. Just got the ACC network 2 months ago and it’s with the non-digital channels. The point is y’all are just mad because the SEC puts more effort into their conference than others. It’s why I hated Swofford. I watched all this unfold under his watch and he did nothing. Maybe Phillips is actually smart and savvy. We’ll see. But if the best plan these other conferences have is this “alliance” then that will fail because you don’t better yourself by playing defense. You see it in business all the time.

And why everyone is focused on football, the SEC has taken over baseball and is now on par or slightly better than the ACC in hoops. As an ACC man from birth it makes me sick what Swofford allowed to happen under his 24 year term to this conference.
I'm not mad at the SEC. There's no conspiracy about the SEC hype machine. It's business as you say. Disney (ABC/ESPN) has a vested interest in getting the highest-ranked teams on their networks and "the best" teams on their networks because it attracts more eyes to their networks. Hyping the SEC is good business for ABC/ESPN.

You're conflating discourse with anger or being mad. You yourself make provocative statements and then turn around and say "it's just for fun," so are you trolling? I don't think many on here are angry or mad at the SEC or anyone else. We just believe the other conferences are going to put rules in place to prevent any conference (specifically the SEC right now) to place an inordinate number of teams in a playoff.

You keep talking about the "best teams" but best is a relative term and right now is based on subjective opinions not head-to-head or direct performance. So, yes, it's just business. The SEC is playing their cards and the rest of college football will play theirs. Unfortunately for ESPN and the SEC, their cards were tipped a little early (maybe even by Texas A&M) and the other conferences put a hold on their plans.

Personally, I wish we went back to where we hated everyone in our conference and wanted everyone to lose. My allegiance is to GT, not the ACC. I liked it back when we all wanted every other conference team to lose big because they were our rivals. I hate this conference pride crap. It's here to stay because it's $$$.
 

SOWEGA Jacket

Ramblin' Wreck
Messages
942
I'm not mad at the SEC. There's no conspiracy about the SEC hype machine. It's business as you say. Disney (ABC/ESPN) has a vested interest in getting the highest-ranked teams on their networks and "the best" teams on their networks because it attracts more eyes to their networks. Hyping the SEC is good business for ABC/ESPN.

You're conflating discourse with anger or being mad. You yourself make provocative statements and then turn around and say "it's just for fun," so are you trolling? I don't think many on here are angry or mad at the SEC or anyone else. We just believe the other conferences are going to put rules in place to prevent any conference (specifically the SEC right now) to place an inordinate number of teams in a playoff.

You keep talking about the "best teams" but best is a relative term and right now is based on subjective opinions not head-to-head or direct performance. So, yes, it's just business. The SEC is playing their cards and the rest of college football will play theirs. Unfortunately for ESPN and the SEC, their cards were tipped a little early (maybe even by Texas A&M) and the other conferences put a hold on their plans.

Personally, I wish we went back to where we hated everyone in our conference and wanted everyone to lose. My allegiance is to GT, not the ACC. I liked it back when we all wanted every other conference team to lose big because they were our rivals. I hate this conference pride crap. It's here to stay because it's $$$.
I get it and your view. I don’t disagree. I just don’t think in a league, say the NCAA, that if part of the league gets mad they make rules against another part of the league. That’s a horrible business model and will lead to the model ending. As you said, right now everyone wants to gang up on the SEC. I’m fine with that in the macro sense because I wish Athens were bombed and I don’t care about any SEC school. But on a micro level within a league (NCAA) it will cause total distrust. What’s next? The others all get together and say the ACC is only allowed 5 teams in March Madness? Or that the Pac 12 can only have 3 in the soccer tourney?

But again I don’t think any of this ultimately matters because the people with the real power and money will make the decision to expand way beyond these current quibbles. They did it with March Madness decades ago and these were the same arguments used back then. I remember as a kid Maryland getting left out when they were clearly the second best team in the country but wasn't the ACC champ so they got no bid because only conf champs got in. And if this alliance really pushes the issue then the SEC will expand and leave. Getting Texas and OU was absolutely an in your face move by the SEC and Texas and OU wanted it to be that way. Imagine the SEC taking FSU, Clemson, Penn State, and others. That will absolutely happen because of money and because the guys who run the SEC are just better at their jobs than the other conferences. I understand the alliance schools will tout the essence of amateurism and the virtues of student athletes like they did in their little statement after Texas and OU gave them the finger. But that’s all they have are empty words. Go ahead and try and to isolate the SEC. They’ll laugh and offer money to schools to play them. Is the alliance willing to put their dollars on the table? They haven’t yet meanwhile the SEC guys are flying TV and internet streaming execs all over the country playing golf with hookers and blow. That’s how you get deals done. And this is just fun.
 

forensicbuzz

Helluva Engineer
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4,926
Location
North Shore, Chicago
I get it and your view. I don’t disagree. I just don’t think in a league, say the NCAA, that if part of the league gets mad they make rules against another part of the league. That’s a horrible business model and will lead to the model ending. As you said, right now everyone wants to gang up on the SEC. I’m fine with that in the macro sense because I wish Athens were bombed and I don’t care about any SEC school. But on a micro level within a league (NCAA) it will cause total distrust. What’s next? The others all get together and say the ACC is only allowed 5 teams in March Madness? Or that the Pac 12 can only have 3 in the soccer tourney?

But again I don’t think any of this ultimately matters because the people with the real power and money will make the decision to expand way beyond these current quibbles. They did it with March Madness decades ago and these were the same arguments used back then. I remember as a kid Maryland getting left out when they were clearly the second best team in the country but wasn't the ACC champ so they got no bid because only conf champs got in. And if this alliance really pushes the issue then the SEC will expand and leave. Getting Texas and OU was absolutely an in your face move by the SEC and Texas and OU wanted it to be that way. Imagine the SEC taking FSU, Clemson, Penn State, and others. That will absolutely happen because of money and because the guys who run the SEC are just better at their jobs than the other conferences. I understand the alliance schools will tout the essence of amateurism and the virtues of student athletes like they did in their little statement after Texas and OU gave them the finger. But that’s all they have are empty words. Go ahead and try and to isolate the SEC. They’ll laugh and offer money to schools to play them. Is the alliance willing to put their dollars on the table? They haven’t yet meanwhile the SEC guys are flying TV and internet streaming execs all over the country playing golf with hookers and blow. That’s how you get deals done. And this is just fun.
No. I don't think one part of the league (NCAA) is mad at the other and looking to punish it, I think that part of the league (SEC) tried to take advantage of the rest of the league (other conferences) and the rest of the league saw endrun before it developed enough to be unstoppable. I think the rest of the league saw the danger in allowing any faction (SEC, B1G, etc.) from exerting too much control and will put controls in place to prevent that from happening. They'll do what's in their best interest financially, and that means to make sure the deck can't be stacked.
 

SOWEGA Jacket

Ramblin' Wreck
Messages
942
I hear you. I enjoy this topic because it’s about college football and I’ve always found the oddness of college football to be interesting since I was a kid. As I’ve grown older I’ve come to realize how we, the fans, have been hosed by decades under the auspices of “tradition”. What really woke me up was analyzing the GT/Colorado season as a GT student and seeing first hand the corruption. Would I have ever looked if GT wasn’t involved? Nope. My eyes were opened to the rampant corruption all the way thru the system. That’s why I always will side with the little guy and the play it on the field side. And thankfully that dam created by the corrupt old bowl guard was smashed with the BCS. I just feel bad for teams like Wake or SMU or Coastal this year because that could easily be GT in the future. Win all your games and be left out of any chance to prove it on the field. Luckily, we all know expansion is coming due to money. So while I loathe the money idea of controlling everything, at least the money will lead to teams having a chance on the field. I’ll take that over the days of McCartney having every reporter west of the Mississippi in his pocket to steal a Natty from GT.
 

DavidStandingBear

Georgia Tech Fan
Messages
74
Location
McKinney TX
Can you be transparent here... what is your connection to West Virginnie to be pushing so hard for a nearly impossible scenario?

Adding them would not raise the per-school payout for the existing members and the ACC is never going to add a team unless it does. They also are a very bad fit academically, which is a big part of the equation.

After that WV fan dropped his ratty jeans and took a dump in our band's seating area while they were performing on field during the bowl game years back, I want absolutely no association with a bunch of hilljacks from WV. It's bad enough they remain one of the 50 states.
WV is not an acc Caliber institution. Would rather see Baylor.
 
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