Expansion Talk 2021

Techster

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Big 12 staying afloat and STICKING it to the hope they'd fold and make exit cheaper for Tejas and OKieDokie

Cincy and UCF are up and coming programs with big donor bases...in good TV markets. That's actually a really good move for the B12. BYU is a national program due to the Morman affiliation...think Notre Dame but for Mormons.

Since B12 has a seat at the P5 table, and those programs that have been threatening for a place in the playoffs, they now have easier access. UCF and Cincy are more competitive programs than a lot of P5 programs. They can wreck some people on the football field.
 

MidtownJacket

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Cincy and UCF are up and coming programs with big donor bases...in good TV markets. That's actually a really good move for the B12. BYU is a national program due to the Morman affiliation...think Notre Dame but for Mormons.

Since B12 has a seat at the P5 table, and those programs that have been threatening for a place in the playoffs, they now have easier access. UCF and Cincy are more competitive programs than a lot of P5 programs. They can wreck some people on the football field.
Agreed - think it was a good move by them to pick them up. Also happy for the conference to be sticking around.
 

Augusta_Jacket

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Big 12 staying afloat and STICKING it to the hope they'd fold and make exit cheaper for Tejas and OKieDokie.

Also of note, not even the AAC is talking about WVU at this point to replace their picked teams..

No one wants WVU....

The AAC might be forced to take them at some point though.
 

Techster

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No one wants WVU....

The AAC might be forced to take them at some point though.

WVU is in the B12 already. That's a much better position than being in the AAC. With UCF, they now at least have a closer rival.

BYU also has a more recent national championship than uga, so there's that as well...

LOL...never let a chance to bury UGA go.
 

GoJacketsInRaleigh

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Now it's time to break up the AAC, Sun Belt, and CUSA and divide those teams up regionally. There could be some damn good football on the east coast with Georgia Southern, Georgia St, Coastal, Charlotte, ECU, App State, Liberty, James Madison, ODU, Marshall, etc.... those teams shouldn't be playing La Monroe and Arkansas State in the same conference
 

Augusta_Jacket

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WVU is in the B12 already. That's a much better position than being in the AAC. With UCF, they now at least have a closer rival.



LOL...never let a chance to bury UGA go.

My thoughts were that this recent expansion by the Big XII is a stop gap. I don't think it will last a decade before they are picked apart. At some point I think you see 4 16 team super-conferences and the best remaining teams are in the current Big XII.
 

WreckinGT

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Cincy and UCF are up and coming programs with big donor bases...in good TV markets. That's actually a really good move for the B12. BYU is a national program due to the Morman affiliation...think Notre Dame but for Mormons.

Since B12 has a seat at the P5 table, and those programs that have been threatening for a place in the playoffs, they now have easier access. UCF and Cincy are more competitive programs than a lot of P5 programs. They can wreck some people on the football field.
Pretty solid conference top to bottom. No reason they shouldn't remain one of the power conferences.
 

WreckinGT

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My thoughts were that this recent expansion by the Big XII is a stop gap. I don't think it will last a decade before they are picked apart. At some point I think you see 4 16 team super-conferences and the best remaining teams are in the current Big XII.
That really just depends on whether the Big 10 wants to go that route. So far they don't seem to be interested in it.
 

bobongo

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No one wants WVU....

The AAC might be forced to take them at some point though.



The TV market thing is not what you’d expect it to be. You’d assume that WVU, in Morgantown, would be in a tiny TV market, in the Middle of Nowhere West Virginia.
You’d be wrong.
Morgantown is in the Pittsburgh DMA, which ranks 26th among the 210 TV markets in the U.S., according to Nielsen.
The smallest, you’re familiar with – Charlottesville, which sits at 177.
You could make the argument, well, we’ve already got Pitt in that market, why would we worry about whatever WVU can bring?
Think this one through. Where do you think Pitt football ranks among viewer choices in the Pittsburgh TV DMA?
In football season, you have the Pittsburgh Steelers. In basketball season, you’d get good odds on the Pittsburgh Penguins doubling or tripling whatever Pitt basketball draws.
And back to the fall, I’d guess that WVU football would get more viewers than Pitt football in that market, considering that the market includes Morgantown.

There is one other ACC TV market with multiple teams – the Raleigh-Durham market, the home to UNC, Duke and NC State, which ranks 24th in the U.S. in the Nielsen numbers.
So, WVU helps the ACC solidify a good-sized TV market, one of the top five in terms of number of TV viewers in the conference.
There’s value to that.
Looking at finances, then, WVU would be a top-shelf team in terms of bottom line.
According to 2019 figures from USA Today, West Virginia reported athletics revenues of $102.7 million, which would have ranked sixth in the ACC among the nine schools for which that information is available, and not far behind UVA ($110.2 million), which ranked fourth.
The private schools – Boston College, Duke, Notre Dame, Pitt, Syracuse and Wake Forest – don’t have to report those numbers.
It’s a safe bet that only Notre Dame from among that group would rank ahead of WVU in overall bottom line.
One other metric that I looked up this morning – the number of living alums.
WVU ranks well here as well, at 210,000. I didn’t research every ACC school, but my quick look has Florida State at 360,000, North Carolina at 342,000, Virginia Tech at 238,000, UVA at 230,000, Georgia Tech at 166,000, Clemson at 154,000.
WVU has fans, basically.
They make money there in Morgantown.
The TV market is top five in the ACC.
There’s natural rivalries – with Pitt, with Virginia Tech, UVA.
It’s not at all a stretch.
 

Vespidae

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The TV market thing is not what you’d expect it to be. You’d assume that WVU, in Morgantown, would be in a tiny TV market, in the Middle of Nowhere West Virginia.
You’d be wrong.
Morgantown is in the Pittsburgh DMA, which ranks 26th among the 210 TV markets in the U.S., according to Nielsen.
The smallest, you’re familiar with – Charlottesville, which sits at 177.
You could make the argument, well, we’ve already got Pitt in that market, why would we worry about whatever WVU can bring?
Think this one through. Where do you think Pitt football ranks among viewer choices in the Pittsburgh TV DMA?
In football season, you have the Pittsburgh Steelers. In basketball season, you’d get good odds on the Pittsburgh Penguins doubling or tripling whatever Pitt basketball draws.
And back to the fall, I’d guess that WVU football would get more viewers than Pitt football in that market, considering that the market includes Morgantown.

There is one other ACC TV market with multiple teams – the Raleigh-Durham market, the home to UNC, Duke and NC State, which ranks 24th in the U.S. in the Nielsen numbers.
So, WVU helps the ACC solidify a good-sized TV market, one of the top five in terms of number of TV viewers in the conference.
There’s value to that.
Looking at finances, then, WVU would be a top-shelf team in terms of bottom line.
According to 2019 figures from USA Today, West Virginia reported athletics revenues of $102.7 million, which would have ranked sixth in the ACC among the nine schools for which that information is available, and not far behind UVA ($110.2 million), which ranked fourth.
The private schools – Boston College, Duke, Notre Dame, Pitt, Syracuse and Wake Forest – don’t have to report those numbers.
It’s a safe bet that only Notre Dame from among that group would rank ahead of WVU in overall bottom line.
One other metric that I looked up this morning – the number of living alums.
WVU ranks well here as well, at 210,000. I didn’t research every ACC school, but my quick look has Florida State at 360,000, North Carolina at 342,000, Virginia Tech at 238,000, UVA at 230,000, Georgia Tech at 166,000, Clemson at 154,000.
WVU has fans, basically.
They make money there in Morgantown.
The TV market is top five in the ACC.
There’s natural rivalries – with Pitt, with Virginia Tech, UVA.
It’s not at all a stretch.
Is the local market impact even a consideration anymore? By the end of September, the season will be over for 90% of the teams. It's the national draw and content that matter then ... I would think ESPN wants THAT. Local markets? Ok, if you are selling cars for Billy Howell Ford.
 

Vespidae

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Cincy and UCF are up and coming programs with big donor bases...in good TV markets. That's actually a really good move for the B12. BYU is a national program due to the Morman affiliation...think Notre Dame but for Mormons.

Since B12 has a seat at the P5 table, and those programs that have been threatening for a place in the playoffs, they now have easier access. UCF and Cincy are more competitive programs than a lot of P5 programs. They can wreck some people on the football field.
Maybe. Or perhaps the B12 just became the Sun Belt Conference.
 

GoJacketsInRaleigh

Jolly Good Fellow
Messages
427



The TV market thing is not what you’d expect it to be. You’d assume that WVU, in Morgantown, would be in a tiny TV market, in the Middle of Nowhere West Virginia.
You’d be wrong.
Morgantown is in the Pittsburgh DMA, which ranks 26th among the 210 TV markets in the U.S., according to Nielsen.
The smallest, you’re familiar with – Charlottesville, which sits at 177.
You could make the argument, well, we’ve already got Pitt in that market, why would we worry about whatever WVU can bring?
Think this one through. Where do you think Pitt football ranks among viewer choices in the Pittsburgh TV DMA?
In football season, you have the Pittsburgh Steelers. In basketball season, you’d get good odds on the Pittsburgh Penguins doubling or tripling whatever Pitt basketball draws.
And back to the fall, I’d guess that WVU football would get more viewers than Pitt football in that market, considering that the market includes Morgantown.

There is one other ACC TV market with multiple teams – the Raleigh-Durham market, the home to UNC, Duke and NC State, which ranks 24th in the U.S. in the Nielsen numbers.
So, WVU helps the ACC solidify a good-sized TV market, one of the top five in terms of number of TV viewers in the conference.
There’s value to that.
Looking at finances, then, WVU would be a top-shelf team in terms of bottom line.
According to 2019 figures from USA Today, West Virginia reported athletics revenues of $102.7 million, which would have ranked sixth in the ACC among the nine schools for which that information is available, and not far behind UVA ($110.2 million), which ranked fourth.
The private schools – Boston College, Duke, Notre Dame, Pitt, Syracuse and Wake Forest – don’t have to report those numbers.
It’s a safe bet that only Notre Dame from among that group would rank ahead of WVU in overall bottom line.
One other metric that I looked up this morning – the number of living alums.
WVU ranks well here as well, at 210,000. I didn’t research every ACC school, but my quick look has Florida State at 360,000, North Carolina at 342,000, Virginia Tech at 238,000, UVA at 230,000, Georgia Tech at 166,000, Clemson at 154,000.
WVU has fans, basically.
They make money there in Morgantown.
The TV market is top five in the ACC.
There’s natural rivalries – with Pitt, with Virginia Tech, UVA.
It’s not at all a stretch.
WVU carrying the Pittsburgh TV market. Holy hell. :ROFLMAO:

Natural rival with UVA? They've played once (in a forced bowl game) since the mid 80's. Stop with this nonsense about WVU
 

WreckinGT

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Maybe. Or perhaps the B12 just became the Sun Belt Conference.
This new conference, without OU and TX has 8 members who have finished in the top 25 in the past 4 years. Four of those teams finished in the top 10. Two are currently in the top 10. That's not too bad. For reference the ACC has had 7 top 25 teams and one top 10 team in the same time frame. The Big 12 will be a really solid conference, they just lack a big name. This is ignoring basketball where this new conference would have had 5 teams finish in the top 25 last year including the national champion.
 

Vespidae

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This new conference, without OU and TX has 8 members who have finished in the top 25 in the past 4 years. Four of those teams finished in the top 10. Two are currently in the top 10. That's not too bad. For reference the ACC has had 7 top 25 teams and one top 10 team in the same time frame. The Big 12 will be a really solid conference, they just lack a big name. This is ignoring basketball where this new conference would have had 5 teams finish in the top 25 last year including the national champion.
I will make a bet that UCF v Cincinnati will be a Wednesday game on TV. Sure, you can cite the rankings but the reality is ... no one cares. Why do you think the NCAA screwed Cincy in the past? Because no one cares.
 

Vespidae

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We're all in "local markets".
I don't think so. If I was watching the game (any game) on WEAR-TV, ok fine. But we don't anymore and haven't ... for a very long time. It's ESPN, streaming or whatever. The whole concept of local eyes has changed dramatically ... it's not my field, but I do agree that it's just content now in return for subscriber fees. We're not in Kansas anymore.
 
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