Expansion Talk 2021

bobongo

Helluva Engineer
Messages
3,201
I don't think so. If I was watching the game (any game) on WEAR-TV, ok fine. But we don't anymore and haven't ... for a very long time. It's ESPN, streaming or whatever. The whole concept of local eyes has changed dramatically ... it's not my field, but I do agree that it's just content now in return for subscriber fees. We're not in Kansas anymore.
The more people watching the games, the more subscribers. The more subscribers, the higher the subscriber fees. You cannot disconnect eyes on glass from $$.
 

Vespidae

Helluva Engineer
Messages
3,260
Location
Auburn, AL
The more people watching the games, the more subscribers. The more subscribers, the higher the subscriber fees. You cannot disconnect eyes on glass from $$.
I don't think that's accurate. Comcast doesn't give two ****s about how many people in Pensacola Fl watch the Florida game. You either subscribe to the ESPN package or you don't. Local eyes only matter if a secondary provider (e.g., Fox Sports, Jefferson Pilot, etc) offers the game.
 

bobongo

Helluva Engineer
Messages
3,201
I don't think that's accurate. Comcast doesn't give two ****s about how many people in Pensacola Fl watch the Florida game. You either subscribe to the ESPN package or you don't. Local eyes only matter if a secondary provider (e.g., Fox Sports, Jefferson Pilot, etc) offers the game.
I don't think you can disconnect ratings from subscribers. The two go hand-in-hand.
 

RonJohn

Helluva Engineer
Messages
3,303
I don't think that's accurate. Comcast doesn't give two ****s about how many people in Pensacola Fl watch the Florida game. You either subscribe to the ESPN package or you don't. Local eyes only matter if a secondary provider (e.g., Fox Sports, Jefferson Pilot, etc) offers the game.
Local TV subscribers do matter. The ACCN and the secn both get more money per subscriber in a local conference market than in a market without a local conference team.

However, the idea that the ACC should add WVU in order to make Pittsburgh a local TV market is kind of missing the fact that Pittsburgh is already an ACC local market. Adding WVU does absolutely nothing with regard to TV markets for the ACC.
 

bobongo

Helluva Engineer
Messages
3,201
Local TV subscribers do matter. The ACCN and the secn both get more money per subscriber in a local conference market than in a market without a local conference team.

However, the idea that the ACC should add WVU in order to make Pittsburgh a local TV market is kind of missing the fact that Pittsburgh is already an ACC local market. Adding WVU does absolutely nothing with regard to TV markets for the ACC.
People in Pittsburgh watch the pro teams and largely ignore the Panthers. People in Morgantown watch WVU, and by extension the rest of West Virginia. There may not be so many people, but their viewership is heavily concentrated on the Mountaineers.
 

RonJohn

Helluva Engineer
Messages
3,303
People in Pittsburgh watch the pro teams and largely ignore the Panthers. People in Morgantown watch WVU.
Still doesn't "add" the Pittsburgh TV market to the ACC, since the ACC is already local to Pittsburgh. No additional ACCN money. No additional money from ESPN for bringing in an additional market. Zero benefit.
 

bobongo

Helluva Engineer
Messages
3,201
Still doesn't "add" the Pittsburgh TV market to the ACC, since the ACC is already local to Pittsburgh. No additional ACCN money. No additional money from ESPN for bringing in an additional market. Zero benefit.
Adding a "market" does little if no one in that market is watching you. Ratings matter.
 

WreckinGT

Helluva Engineer
Messages
1,879
I will make a bet that UCF v Cincinnati will be a Wednesday game on TV. Sure, you can cite the rankings but the reality is ... no one cares. Why do you think the NCAA screwed Cincy in the past? Because no one cares.
So should we just group the 10 or so teams with gigantic fan bases together and let them battle it out while the rest of us peasants pretend to be relevant?
 

RonJohn

Helluva Engineer
Messages
3,303
Adding a "market" does little if no one in that market is watching you. Ratings matter.
In the current TV business model, it does not. ESPN gets money per subscriber, not per watcher. ACCN gets money per subscriber including those who never, ever, ever watch any sports whatsoever. I think the business model sucks, but that is how it works. There is almost no way to get TV service without the main ESPN channel. If you are above all but the lowest tiers then you get the ACCN. The vast majority of TV subscribers don't care one bit about ACCN, but they pay for it anyway.
 

Northeast Stinger

Helluva Engineer
Messages
5,318



The TV market thing is not what you’d expect it to be. You’d assume that WVU, in Morgantown, would be in a tiny TV market, in the Middle of Nowhere West Virginia.
You’d be wrong.
Morgantown is in the Pittsburgh DMA, which ranks 26th among the 210 TV markets in the U.S., according to Nielsen.
The smallest, you’re familiar with – Charlottesville, which sits at 177.
You could make the argument, well, we’ve already got Pitt in that market, why would we worry about whatever WVU can bring?
Think this one through. Where do you think Pitt football ranks among viewer choices in the Pittsburgh TV DMA?
In football season, you have the Pittsburgh Steelers. In basketball season, you’d get good odds on the Pittsburgh Penguins doubling or tripling whatever Pitt basketball draws.
And back to the fall, I’d guess that WVU football would get more viewers than Pitt football in that market, considering that the market includes Morgantown.

There is one other ACC TV market with multiple teams – the Raleigh-Durham market, the home to UNC, Duke and NC State, which ranks 24th in the U.S. in the Nielsen numbers.
So, WVU helps the ACC solidify a good-sized TV market, one of the top five in terms of number of TV viewers in the conference.
There’s value to that.
Looking at finances, then, WVU would be a top-shelf team in terms of bottom line.
According to 2019 figures from USA Today, West Virginia reported athletics revenues of $102.7 million, which would have ranked sixth in the ACC among the nine schools for which that information is available, and not far behind UVA ($110.2 million), which ranked fourth.
The private schools – Boston College, Duke, Notre Dame, Pitt, Syracuse and Wake Forest – don’t have to report those numbers.
It’s a safe bet that only Notre Dame from among that group would rank ahead of WVU in overall bottom line.
One other metric that I looked up this morning – the number of living alums.
WVU ranks well here as well, at 210,000. I didn’t research every ACC school, but my quick look has Florida State at 360,000, North Carolina at 342,000, Virginia Tech at 238,000, UVA at 230,000, Georgia Tech at 166,000, Clemson at 154,000.
WVU has fans, basically.
They make money there in Morgantown.
The TV market is top five in the ACC.
There’s natural rivalries – with Pitt, with Virginia Tech, UVA.
It’s not at all a stretch.
Haven’t checked the numbers the last couple of years because I’m not sure how COVID might or might not affect these numbers but….West Virginia has the oldest and sickest population in the country, one of only two states that has steadily lost population for over a decade or more, and has the highest brain drain of young people leaving the state. I’m not trying to dump on West Virginia, I think it is a beautiful state, I just don’t see it as the future salvation of the ACC.
 

Vespidae

Helluva Engineer
Messages
3,260
Location
Auburn, AL
Haven’t checked the numbers the last couple of years because I’m not sure how COVID might or might not affect these numbers but….West Virginia has the oldest and sickest population in the country, one of only two states that has steadily lost population for over a decade or more, and has the highest brain drain of young people leaving the state. I’m not trying to dump on West Virginia, I think it is a beautiful state, I just don’t see it as the future salvation of the ACC.
It isn't. The ACC will never be a football power. Take the money and invest in basketball, baseball and golf.
 

bobongo

Helluva Engineer
Messages
3,201
Haven’t checked the numbers the last couple of years because I’m not sure how COVID might or might not affect these numbers but….West Virginia has the oldest and sickest population in the country, one of only two states that has steadily lost population for over a decade or more, and has the highest brain drain of young people leaving the state. I’m not trying to dump on West Virginia, I think it is a beautiful state, I just don’t see it as the future salvation of the ACC.
BY itself, I agree. But it would be an excellent complimentary addition to round out the field to 16 if the ACC could find a way to add ND.
 

bobongo

Helluva Engineer
Messages
3,201
In the current TV business model, it does not. ESPN gets money per subscriber, not per watcher. ACCN gets money per subscriber including those who never, ever, ever watch any sports whatsoever. I think the business model sucks, but that is how it works. There is almost no way to get TV service without the main ESPN channel. If you are above all but the lowest tiers then you get the ACCN. The vast majority of TV subscribers don't care one bit about ACCN, but they pay for it anyway.
Subscribers don't subscribe if they don't watch.
 
Top