Expansion Talk 2021

[orientalnc]

IMO, this is the shift in landscape that finally makes ND *** or get off the pot. I'm not sure ND will reward the ACC for its kindness in giving their non-football sports a home the past few years. ND will either go B1G or join a monster SEC with Texas and OU. They know where the money will be, and it won't be in the ACC.

It is my understanding that when ND signed on to be in the ACC for all sports except football it waived its right to join any conference for football other than the ACC. It can remain independent, but cannot join the B1G.

GT rewarded the ACC for rescuing us from the wilderness after leaving the SEC the last go around, but GT would be foolish to turn down the B1G again...that's IF the B1G doesn't hold a grudge and tell GT that ship has sailed. GT is a bigger piece of the puzzle than GT fans realize, but GT hasn't made many friends in the process. At the end of the day it's about business, and getting a school in a key southern market is nothing to pass up.

The B1G might like to have the ATL market in its footprint, but the ACC locked up GT and all the other ACC schools with an ironclad GOR agreement.

Clemson probably goes to the SEC...they've always been an SEC school in temperament and it's one of the most natural expansion marriages there is.

Duke and UNC are a tandem, and they probably don't leave the ACC without the other one. They're basically the king of the ACC, but how attractive is it to be a king of dying country?

UVA will probably be forced to take VT along with them wherever they end up because that's already happened.

FSU and Miami will be interesting. When they joined the ACC, they were two of the premier teams in the country, but the past decade has dimmed a LOT of what they built in the 90's and early 2000's. They're basically a shell of what they use to be living off of their old legacy. Would not be surprised if they went their separate ways during the next conference shift.

See above. It's the GOR problem again.

Crazy idea time: PAC 12 and ACC combine to form a "national" conference. Both have elite schools in their respective conference, and have blue blood programs in football and basketball. Both conferences have similar mission statements and academic values. Plus, East Coast versus West Coast would angle would be interesting. PAC12 is going through some issues right now, and a "reset" like this for ACC and PAC12 could be a game changer.

The bolding is mine. The ACC schools are already unhappy traveling to Boston and Miami. Do you think a trip to Oregon or California will be OK with ADs or fans. The WV crowd hates being in the Big 12 for just that reason, but apparently the ACC has said no to them many, many times.

 

[RonJohn]

So if Texas and Oklahoma leave the Big12, that conference falls apart. That then allows the Big10 to go after WVa, OK St. and Iowa State. That would make more sense than an ACC Team.

Iowa State is the only one of those three that could get into the Big10. They require membership in the AAU. Nebraska is the only Big10 team not in the AAU. They were when they joined but were expelled a few years later.

 

[Technut1990]

I see what you are saying but I will tell you, I have no desire to watch us play those schools. Also you can bet our fans will not travel. If this is where it is all headed and the rivalry and passion is gone....Then College Football is Dead.

I think the rivalry and passion has been on its way down, it’s becoming more and more about money. How long have we been hearing rumors that Georgia may want out of our yearly game ? You can’t get more traditional than Tech-Georgia, but like I said it’s becoming more about money. You use to couldn’t find a ticket for this game, now days if you really want to go you can find a ticket. I think Georgia sees more lucrative games they could play and I don’t think The SEC cares about old rivalries anymore. The ACC a still needs them, realignment will kill that need

 

[Techster]

I see what you are saying but I will tell you, I have no desire to watch us play those schools. Also you can bet our fans will not travel. If this is where it is all headed and the rivalry and passion is gone....Then College Football is Dead.

How many GT fans travel to games anyhow? I think most GT fans travel to maybe 1-3 games a year. I'm originally from MI and have friends Pennsylvania, and Ohio. You can bet your whiskey clear that I'm going to OSU/UM/PSU games.

GT tickets will be MUCH more attractive with OSU/Michigan/Penn State/Mich State on the schedule. Nothing against UVA/NC State/Wake Forest/BC but I have zero desire to ever watch them in football unless it's a home game or GT playing them.

GT stands to gain far more in attendence by joining the B1G than staying in the ACC...and our checks would be much larger. I did the math in another thread, and GT has lost well over $100 million in just media revenue since we turned down the B1G. Think about that.

No offense, you're just one fan. I'm sure there are MANY more fans GT will gain by having the likes of OSU, Michigan, Penn State, etc come to Bobby Dodd.

 

[UgaBlows]

We'd blow by the 16 team thing so no idea how scheduling would work. Just thinking about it financially - those schools can bring value where UCF, WVU, Cincinnati, Iowa State, Kansas etc... just don't.

Let's have some fun real quick though. Let's add Stanford and all their cash too.

West POD - USC, UCLA, Oregon, Colorado, Stanford
South POD - Miami, FSU, GT, Clemson, WF
Mid-Atlantic POD - Duke, UNC, NC State, UVA, VT
North POD - BC, Syracuse, Pitt, ND, Louisville

*** -Something has to give keeping UVA and VT together and the four NC schools together so this is just brainstorming ***

Play your pod every year - 2 home and 2 away games. Play 2 of the other 5 in each POD every year - 1 home and 1 away. That's 10 conference games and more content for the ACC Network. Every 5 years, you would play the schools in the other PODs once at home and once on the road.

Basketball is big enough to just play a damn round robin 19 games each. Everyone can have a permanent rival for a second conference game (20th overall) like Duke vs UNC. Schedule it so everyone goes out west once a year.

I like the idea of a West-coast pod, but the Mid-Atlantic and North pods are straight garbage

 

[Techster]

It is my understanding that when ND signed on to be in the ACC for all sports except football it waived its right to join any conference for football other than the ACC. It can remain independent, but cannot join the B1G.


The B1G might like to have the ATL market in its footprint, but the ACC locked up GT and all the other ACC schools with an ironclad GOR agreement.


See above. It's the GOR problem again.


The bolding is mine. The ACC schools are already unhappy traveling to Boston and Miami. Do you think a trip to Oregon or California will be OK with ADs or fans. The WV crowd hates being in the Big 12 for just that reason, but apparently the ACC has said no to them many, many times.

The GOR is not in perpetuity. It will end one day...plus, there are always ways to get out of it...especially when lawyers, money, and ESPN is involved.

As for traveling, how many fans outside of maybe Clemson fans travel anyhow? Traveling fans isn't that much of a deal as some on here are making it out to be. How many GT away games do you travel to a year that isn't in the state you live in?

 

[RonJohn]

Some of you guys act as if the TV contracts are gonna hold these schools, if realignment happens ESPN will want to redo the contracts also AND school media rights would be part of a new deal

If I understand correctly, the ACC contract states that if a school leaves, they have to pay the buyout AND all of the TV rights for that school remain with the ACC. So, if an ACC school were to go to the Big10:

• The ACC school would have to pay the buyout.
• The Big10 would not get any money for TV rights from the new team from the ACC.
• The ACC would get all of the money for home games for that the ACC-to-Big10 team plays.

Basically, the Big10 would not get any additional money. The ACC would benefit, say if Ohio State were to play in Atlanta. The Big10 would not have much of an incentive to share money with the new team since they are not producing revenue for the conference. The ACC would not pay any of the media revenue to the ACC-to-Big10 school since they are no longer a member of the conference. There is no incentive for the Big10 to expand to Atlanta if they don't get the media rights. There is no incentive for GT to go to the Big10 if it can't get a piece of the Big10 media bucket.

 

[WreckinGT]

It is my understanding that when ND signed on to be in the ACC for all sports except football it waived its right to join any conference for football other than the ACC. It can remain independent, but cannot join the B1G.

Notre Dame can’t join any conference except the ACC through 2027. After that it’s still a little strange because Notre Dames ACC matchups through 2037 have already been announced. I’m not sure they can get out of all of those with no penalty.

 

[Technut1990]

I certainly see the points on revenue sharing agreements and rights and prohibitions on this and that but in the end realignment changes everything, schools will be chewing off their own feet to get out of conferences and agreements, why ? Because in the end they will make more than they lose.

 

[Techster]

If anyone is counting, it's 15 years left on the ACC GOR deal.

 

[RonJohn]

We'd blow by the 16 team thing so no idea how scheduling would work. Just thinking about it financially - those schools can bring value where UCF, WVU, Cincinnati, Iowa State, Kansas etc... just don't.

Let's have some fun real quick though. Let's add Stanford and all their cash too.

West POD - USC, UCLA, Oregon, Colorado, Stanford
South POD - Miami, FSU, GT, Clemson, WF
Mid-Atlantic POD - Duke, UNC, NC State, UVA, VT
North POD - BC, Syracuse, Pitt, ND, Louisville

*** -Something has to give keeping UVA and VT together and the four NC schools together so this is just brainstorming ***

Play your pod every year - 2 home and 2 away games. Play 2 of the other 5 in each POD every year - 1 home and 1 away. That's 10 conference games and more content for the ACC Network. Every 5 years, you would play the schools in the other PODs once at home and once on the road.

Basketball is big enough to just play a damn round robin 19 games each. Everyone can have a permanent rival for a second conference game (20th overall) like Duke vs UNC. Schedule it so everyone goes out west once a year.

Scheduling like that might work for football, and maybe can work for basketball. I don't see regular west coast trips for Voleyball, baseball, softball, etc. Even if the athletic department makes more money overall, the travel costs for non-revenue sports will go up exponentially.

 

[augustabuzz]

Sec network is pushing a pod format, actually like this a lot. Would guarantee you see every team at home over four years, which is way better than the current format. I don’t think uga has gone to Texas A&M yet

That's 7 games. Who makes the other 2?

 

[Technut1990]

If anyone is counting, it's 15 years left on the ACC GOR deal.

no way that gets honored in totality, if it is The ACC is dead, it cannot compete now, it won’t survive 15 years down the road. These deals will get bought out one way or another.

 

[RonJohn]

Sec network is pushing a pod format, actually like this a lot. Would guarantee you see every team at home over four years, which is way better than the current format. I don’t think uga has gone to Texas A&M yet

That is similar to what the ACC proposed years ago. They wanted each 4 year player to have at least one home and one away game with every team in the conference.

 

[Techster]

no way that gets honored in totality, if it is The ACC is dead, it cannot compete now, it won’t survive 15 years down the road. These deals will get bought out one way or another.

You know who wins if the ACC gets torn to shreds and SEC and B1G become 2 supernovas? ESPN.

You know why beneficiary of the ACC's GOR is? ESPN.

Do the math...if ESPN wants to make something happen, that something will happen because ESPN is writing the checks. '

Chaos is a ladder (Game of Thrones reference), so the ACC can actually come out like a bandit if the leadership is smart. Like say preemptively try to talk Texas and OU in joining the ACC, get ND to commit, and find a 4th team. How good does the ACC look with Texas, OU, and ND...and how much more money can the ACC command with those teams?

 

[augustabuzz]

If I understand correctly, the ACC contract states that if a school leaves, they have to pay the buyout AND all of the TV rights for that school remain with the ACC. So, if an ACC school were to go to the Big10:

• The ACC school would have to pay the buyout.
• The Big10 would not get any money for TV rights from the new team from the ACC.
• The ACC would get all of the money for home games for that the ACC-to-Big10 team plays.

Basically, the Big10 would not get any additional money. The ACC would benefit, say if Ohio State were to play in Atlanta. The Big10 would not have much of an incentive to share money with the new team since they are not producing revenue for the conference. The ACC would not pay any of the media revenue to the ACC-to-Big10 school since they are no longer a member of the conference. There is no incentive for the Big10 to expand to Atlanta if they don't get the media rights. There is no incentive for GT to go to the Big10 if it can't get a piece of the Big10 media bucket.

Tech would have to play neutral site games to eliminate the GOR problem.

 

[JacketOff]

GT tickets will be MUCH more attractive with OSU/Michigan/Penn State/Mich State on the schedule. Nothing against UVA/NC State/Wake Forest/BC but I have zero desire to ever watch them in football unless it's a home game or GT playing them.

GT stands to gain far more in attendence by joining the B1G than staying in the ACC...and our checks would be much larger. I did the math in another thread, and GT has lost well over $100 million in just media revenue since we turned down the B1G. Think about that.

No offense, you're just one fan. I'm sure there are MANY more fans GT will gain by having the likes of OSU, Michigan, Penn State, etc come to Bobby Dodd.

I bet Maryland thought that too. Especially their first year in the B1G in 2014 when all 51,802 seats got filled when Michigan State and Ohio State came to town. And again in 2015 when they were at full capacity for their home game against Michigan.

But I bet they were massively disappointed in 2018 when the OSU game only drew 38k, and in 2019 when Michigan only brought in 40k.

 

[RonJohn]

Tech would have to play neutral site games to eliminate the GOR problem.

I'm not sure that would work. If there are TV rights involved, the ACC would own them for another 14-15 years.

Also, that would be for football, basketball, baseball, etc. It would be a little difficult to have all of the football games at another location. It would be more difficult to have the basketball games at another location. It would be just as difficult to have baseball at another location. In addition to the difficulty in scheduling, that would mean no games at BDS or McCamish or Rush Chandler until 2036-37.

 

[Technut1990]

If the Big 12 collapses and the other conferences stay the same this is where the Big 12 schools go ;

Baylor, Texas Tech, TCU and WV. Go to the ACC

Ok St, Kansas St go to SEC with Texas and Oklahoma

Iowa St and Kansas go to Big 10 (I could see Baylor and Kansas switched though)

 

[RonJohn]

If the Big 12 collapses and the other conferences stay the same this is where the Big 12 schools go ;

Baylor, Texas Tech, TCU and WV. Go to the ACC

Ok St, Kansas St go to SEC with Texas and Oklahoma

Iowa St and Kansas go to Big 10 (I could see Baylor and Kansas switched though)

Texas, Iowa State and Kansas are the only two AAU schools in the Big12, so the only ones that the Big10 would accept. If Texas goes to the SEC, that only leaves Iowa State and Kansas who would be allowed in the Big10.