Expansion Talk 2021

[Technut1990]

And I don't know that the other three conferences would cry if they did leave. If the SEC negotiates in bad faith, then setting exact conditions instead of negotiating is a good response. In order to do so, you have to be prepared to end the relationship, otherwise you go back to negotiating with someone that you don't trust.

I agree with that but I don’t think it ends well for the Alliance. Say goodbye to The SEC, within 5 years The SEC poaches 5-6 Alliance schools and you can rename The Alliance The Big 12 because it will be making just as much money.

 

[GoJacketsInRaleigh]

I’ll get yelled at but I don’t think the SEC stays in The NCAA if that happens

Good. Then go get Kentucky from them, who will want to protect their basketball franchise. Go get Florida who is great in all sports. Those 16 schools can't do their own thing for all sports and stay strong.

 

[RonJohn]

you went to Tech didn’t you ?

I did. I didn't make money from being a movie star or rock star. I did work a co-op job. I have had a pretty decent career. If Coke had offered me $100k to do radio ads for them, I would have. It wasn't something that I pursued, nor have the voice for anyway. I wouldn't have had anything against any student athlete or not, if they had a good voice and were offered such an opportunity. If someone I knew had been offered such an opportunity and turned it down because they didn't think it was fair to the rest of us students I would have told them they were crazy.

I am still confused about what point you are trying to make. It went from students don't get paid by GTRI, to students don't get NIL money, to whatever we are at now. Is your point that athletes have more valuable name recognition than normal students? Is it that athletes shouldn't be paid more for their name recognition unless every student gets a cut of it? Were you trying to say that athletes are the only ones who get scholarships or any payment? I don't see a central point of this discussion.

 

[MWBATL]

The meanest, most deserving, thing the alliance could do to the SEC is keep the 4 team CFP but change it to include only conference champions. That would stymie the SEC attempt to load up the playoffs and also force ND into a conference, thereby strengthening the alliance.

Another side benefit is that it makes the conference championship games part of the playoffs.

I would dearly love to see that come to pass.

But I fear there is too much money to be made by expanding the playoffs.

 

[Technut1990]

My whole point in my entire argument is that until The ACC decides to forgo its academic prowess it won’t and can’t compete with a conference that values sports revenue. They are two different business models one is designed to exploit technology the other sports entertainment and both derive their proceeds from two totally different sources. Neither model NEEDS the other.

 

[RonJohn]

I agree with that but I don’t think it ends well for the Alliance. Say goodbye to The SEC, within 5 years The SEC poaches 5-6 Alliance schools and you can rename The Alliance The Big 12 because it will be making just as much money.

Maybe, maybe not. I have pointed out that the SEC is regional. The country watches Oregon vs Auburn. The country watches Ohio State vs Alabama. Will the country continue to watch Alabama vs Florida or the mutts every year? I don't know. If they don't, the SEC will need the 5-6 alliance schools much more than the alliance schools would need them.

IF the SEC is separated from the rest of FBS, (and I think that is a remote possibility) I would predict a merger in the future as more likely than the alliance running all over the SEC or the SEC becoming the standard for football.

 

[Technut1990]

I did. I didn't make money from being a movie star or rock star. I did work a co-op job. I have had a pretty decent career. If Coke had offered me $100k to do radio ads for them, I would have. It wasn't something that I pursued, nor have the voice for anyway. I wouldn't have had anything against any student athlete or not, if they had a good voice and were offered such an opportunity. If someone I knew had been offered such an opportunity and turned it down because they didn't think it was fair to the rest of us students I would have told them they were crazy.

I am still confused about what point you are trying to make. It went from students don't get paid by GTRI, to students don't get NIL money, to whatever we are at now. Is your point that athletes have more valuable name recognition than normal students? Is it that athletes shouldn't be paid more for their name recognition unless every student gets a cut of it? Were you trying to say that athletes are the only ones who get scholarships or any payment? I don't see a central point of this discussion.

ok I’m sure you will take this as an insult but I seriously don’t mean it as such.

your level of intelligence prevents the concept of the common mans logic from reaching you. One of my best friends is the same way. He assumes people see things as he does when he’s the different one. He thinks like a scholar. Yes sure you COULD get a deal, I doubt you will or would in your capacity as a scholar. If Coke paid you for radio ads it likely wouldn’t be because you invented a new formula. If Nike paid you it’s likely it would be because you excel on the court or field, a visible commodity in advertising.

my point is as you said, paraphrasing, you said that Grad students get some of the research money. My point was that on a competitive basis IN SPORTS , that ALL athletes are likely to get NIL money, not just Grad students. I think it was Sanders the other day saying Krystals paid him to eat there and say he liked it. He was asked if he really liked it, he said no not really but I guess I should now.

If you go to Tech as a physics major you are far more unlikely to get a NIL deal Than an athlete. You tried to say you could. Ok so you could But it ain’t likely is it ? If you were an athlete looking at schools which schools generate more potential money via NIL ? I’d say The SEC. Didn’t Tech lose Carter because of NIL ? To Memphis !

I wasn’t trying to argue about wether you could or couldn’t get a NIL deal as a brain surgeon at Vanderbilt, I was saying Athletes stand to make more money at college, as an athlete, and those athletes will go to The SEC for that reason. It’s simply more exposure.

If NIL deals were common among scholars I’m sure scholars at Tech would be cashing in but I really don’t think they are comparatively, are they ?

 

[Technut1990]

Maybe, maybe not. I have pointed out that the SEC is regional. The country watches Oregon vs Auburn. The country watches Ohio State vs Alabama. Will the country continue to watch Alabama vs Florida or the mutts every year? I don't know. If they don't, the SEC will need the 5-6 alliance schools much more than the alliance schools would need them.

IF the SEC is separated from the rest of FBS, (and I think that is a remote possibility) I would predict a merger in the future as more likely than the alliance running all over the SEC or the SEC becoming the standard for football.

A merger ? You mean like the top 6-7 teams in the Alliance going to The SEC like I said ?

 

[jacketup]

CPJ said it best at Tech they want you to be MIT Monday through Friday and be Florida State on Saturday. Not going to happen.

Actually, O'Leary said that. But you never let facts get in the way of your posts, especially when you can honor your hero Johnson.

 

[Augusta_Jacket]

So you are simply discounting National Titles by LSU, Florida, and Auburn by saying it’s all Saban?

Saban owns one of those 3 LSU titles.

 

[jacketup]

View attachment 11024

I don't disagree with your point but US News rankings are crap. London Times World University ratings are better--and not just because Tech is 38 and UF 152. UF is a good school. US News has too much of a liberal arts/private school bias. I'll also add that UT (the real one) is 44, and the SEC just took them in (Texas would have been a better fit for the B1G because of academics in my opinion, but what do I know).

 

[forensicbuzz]

And my response was that IF the SEC is isolated to being simply a Southern entity, it will be much harder for them to reach that pinnacle. You seem to be accepting that the SEC is the goal of every elite player already. Do football players in Wisconsin not dream of playing at Wisconsin? Do football players in California not dream of playing at USC? Do football players in Ohio not dream of playing at Ohio State? I am in the Southeast and see all of the SEC hype. You are in the Midwest, so you could probably answer whether high school football players currently discount Wisconsin, Northwestern, and Ohio State and only dream of playing for LSU or Alabama. I think the reason that the conferences are meeting to discuss an alliance is to ensure that they can remain relevant. If they just let the SEC do anything they want to do without anything to counter it, we will get to that point. However, I don't think we are there yet.

Stop trying to force what I said into what you're trying make it sound like. I didn't say any such thing, nor do I accept any such thing. Sure about the kids in Wisconsin, California, Ohio, etc., but all of those kids dream of playing in the NFL first and foremost. If they think playing somewhere other than their dream college is going to improve their chances, damn straight they'll go somewhere else.

MY WHOLE POINT, which you keep ignoring, is that IF we isolate the SEC and they turn their marketing arm (a/k/a ESPN) to making it seem like they're building an "A-League," where they only play against themselves (i.e. best ONLY playing against the best), that's a lot of mass headed in one direction. mv = momentum, so we have to make sure we prevent them from gaining speed. That's the point I was making. If we force them to only play themselves, they'll tout themselves as the Premier League and relegate the rest to the Football League Championship, Football League One, Football League Two, and National League (English soccer reference). ESPN will support this.

In the end, if Little Johnny thinks the big bad SEC will give him a better shot at the league, more than likely, that's where he's going to go. We need to prevent this, and isolating the SEC ain't gonna get it done.

 

[forensicbuzz]

CPJ said it best at Tech they want you to be MIT Monday through Friday and be Florida State on Saturday. Not going to happen.

why not?

 

[stech81]

I don't think anyone really know what this Big 10, Pac 10 , and ACC means, so lets not worry about it till we do. I'm willing to bet it's no big deal. Lets talk about this season we are 2 weeks out for our first game.

 

[Northeast Stinger]

Actually, O'Leary said that. But you never let facts get in the way of your posts, especially when you can honor your hero Johnson.

But was it FSU on Saturday or was it Alabama?

 

[SOWEGA Jacket]

I don't think anyone really know what this Big 10, Pac 10 , and ACC means, so lets not worry about it till we do. I'm willing to bet it's no big deal. Lets talk about this season we are 2 weeks out for our first game.

We can do more than one thing at a time. With the season being 2 weeks away I love having topics to keep me distracted from the countdown clock. And I agree none of us know jack about what the future holds but discussions like this are fun. Message boards solve nothing and are just fun distractions from real life. Don’t worry in about 13 days we’ll have enough topics about the actual games, coaches, and players to get us through the rest of this year.

 

[yeti92]

Stop trying to force what I said into what you're trying make it sound like. I didn't say any such thing, nor do I accept any such thing. Sure about the kids in Wisconsin, California, Ohio, etc., but all of those kids dream of playing in the NFL first and foremost. If they think playing somewhere other than their dream college is going to improve their chances, damn straight they'll go somewhere else.

MY WHOLE POINT, which you keep ignoring, is that IF we isolate the SEC and they turn their marketing arm (a/k/a ESPN) to making it seem like they're building an "A-League," where they only play against themselves (i.e. best ONLY playing against the best), that's a lot of mass headed in one direction. mv = momentum, so we have to make sure we prevent them from gaining speed. That's the point I was making. If we force them to only play themselves, they'll tout themselves as the Premier League and relegate the rest to the Football League Championship, Football League One, Football League Two, and National League (English soccer reference). ESPN will support this.

In the end, if Little Johnny thinks the big bad SEC will give him a better shot at the league, more than likely, that's where he's going to go. We need to prevent this, and isolating the SEC ain't gonna get it done.

If that were to happen (and I don't think it would), why would it matter? If we aren't playing UGA anymore, who cares whether they recruit better or worse? A lot of people have wanted a semi pro league for the kids not interested in school, what's the issue with splitting the SEC off to be that league and allowing the rest of us to continue having actual student athletes?

 

[RonJohn]

Stop trying to force what I said into what you're trying make it sound like. I didn't say any such thing, nor do I accept any such thing. Sure about the kids in Wisconsin, California, Ohio, etc., but all of those kids dream of playing in the NFL first and foremost. If they think playing somewhere other than their dream college is going to improve their chances, damn straight they'll go somewhere else.

MY WHOLE POINT, which you keep ignoring, is that IF we isolate the SEC and they turn their marketing arm (a/k/a ESPN) to making it seem like they're building an "A-League," where they only play against themselves (i.e. best ONLY playing against the best), that's a lot of mass headed in one direction. mv = momentum, so we have to make sure we prevent them from gaining speed. That's the point I was making. If we force them to only play themselves, they'll tout themselves as the Premier League and relegate the rest to the Football League Championship, Football League One, Football League Two, and National League (English soccer reference). ESPN will support this.

In the end, if Little Johnny thinks the big bad SEC will give him a better shot at the league, more than likely, that's where he's going to go. We need to prevent this, and isolating the SEC ain't gonna get it done.

I haven't ignored that point. I have been trying to say that the argument you are making is a marketing statement. A national alliance could have marketing statements about being a "national" championship instead of a regional championship. People in California and Chicago(not the schools themselves) would probably say that they are playing for the cow tipping championship since they are all backwards redneck programs.

You seem to be inclined to believe that the SEC has already won that marketing war.

Rumor is we will find out what the alliance is up to this week. I seriously doubt they will explicitly exclude the SEC. I do think it is possible they will have rules and conditions that the SEC would have never agreed to if they were involved in the negotiation. If there is a separation, I think it will be because the SEC won't join, not because the others won't allow them to join.

 

[SOWEGA Jacket]

You keep bringing up this National vs. regional garbage. This isn’t 1980 where you get one game a week to watch or you have to go to a stadium to see a game. Every game every where is on TV. That’s why I can sit in south GA and be a fan of Oregon. Or live in Cali and love Bama. High end players will go to schools that they’ve grown up watching in big games and will get them to the NFL. You are way over believing in this national strategy. There is not a high end team west of Oklahoma. There is not a high end team anywhere near the northeast. Fans and eyeballs will watch big time games with big time players regardless of what region of the country they are in. Marketing can only do so much when the product is inferior. The one thing about sports is you can’t fake it. Notre Dame has tried and then they get exposed and everyone knew it was coming because we have eyeballs. Your idea worked back in the days where no one saw the games and awarded titles based on newspaper accounts and records.

 

[RonJohn]

You keep bringing up this National vs. regional garbage. This isn’t 1980 where you get one game a week to watch or you have to go to a stadium to see a game. Every game every where is on TV. That’s why I can sit in south GA and be a fan of Oregon. Or live in Cali and love Bama. High end players will go to schools that they’ve grown up watching in big games and will get them to the NFL. You are way over believing in this national strategy. There is not a high end team west of Oklahoma. There is not a high end team anywhere near the northeast. Fans and eyeballs will watch big time games with big time players regardless of what region of the country they are in. Marketing can only do so much when the product is inferior. The one thing about sports is you can’t fake it. Notre Dame has tried and then they get exposed and everyone knew it was coming because we have eyeballs. Your idea worked back in the days where no one saw the games and awarded titles based on newspaper accounts and records.

I am sure that Finebaum agrees with you. Not everybody believes all of the SEC marketing hype.