Expansion Talk 2021

[Technut1990]

CPJ said it best at Tech they want you to be MIT Monday through Friday and be Florida State on Saturday. Not going to happen.

I think the comment is accurate but I don’t know about the degree of either extreme. I think Tech can be a lot better in sports on a consistent basis but I don’t think they can compete with The SEC generally. They are a true ACC team, perhaps mid to lower Big 10 team. Apparently the limits on Tech monetarily speaking ( as in fan support ) is another disadvantage. I don’t see how they can financially compete for fan dollars given their smaller base of alums. I mean natural human attrition factors into Techs base which Georgia can lose 20,000 each year and still out fund us from a fan base perspective. I think the same is true for most ACC schools against their SEC counterparts. Again academic acceptance rates having an effect on that too.

 

[orientalnc]

Yeah, academically it isn't even close. It's about the same difference between us and them academically as it is in football. The average ACC school is so far ahead of the average SEC school academically that it isn't even debatable by those of us who recruit regularly. Night and Day. But for some reason if we tout someone's athletic prowess that's cool, but to tout someone's intelligence is somehow demeaning to those less gifted. Narrative.

But I don't think the Alliance is interested in 'closing out the SEC.' Why would they be? They simply want to make sure that the circularity machine that is the SEC doesn't close everyone else out. You know how it is...the SEC is the most awesome because of...well, Alabama. Therefore all the schools that Bama beats every year are also good...for some reason. So they all get ranked highly, and when they lose to each other it is 'quality losses.' When they get beat by someone from outside the conference it is a 'fluke', because we just know that the SEC is better, right? With a 12 game championship the SEC is hoping to get six of the slots, get all the payout and slowly but surely push the other conferences out of the picture.

What they are doing isn't bad or evil, but is it a bit dirty and anyone who apologizes for them is either an idiot, naïve or has a vested interest in that outcome (in my opinion.)

Their goal is to make as much money on the backs of free athlete labor as possible. More money = higher AD pay = lake houses and European Vacations. Follow. The. Money.

The meanest, most deserving, thing the alliance could do to the SEC is keep the 4 team CFP but change it to include only conference champions. That would stymie the SEC attempt to load up the playoffs and also force ND into a conference, thereby strengthening the alliance.

Another side benefit is that it makes the conference championship games part of the playoffs.

 

[Technut1990]

Yeah, academically it isn't even close. It's about the same difference between us and them academically as it is in football. The average ACC school is so far ahead of the average SEC school academically that it isn't even debatable by those of us who recruit regularly. Night and Day. But for some reason if we tout someone's athletic prowess that's cool, but to tout someone's intelligence is somehow demeaning to those less gifted. Narrative.

But I don't think the Alliance is interested in 'closing out the SEC.' Why would they be? They simply want to make sure that the circularity machine that is the SEC doesn't close everyone else out. You know how it is...the SEC is the most awesome because of...well, Alabama. Therefore all the schools that Bama beats every year are also good...for some reason. So they all get ranked highly, and when they lose to each other it is 'quality losses.' When they get beat by someone from outside the conference it is a 'fluke', because we just know that the SEC is better, right? With a 12 game championship the SEC is hoping to get six of the slots, get all the payout and slowly but surely push the other conferences out of the picture.

What they are doing isn't bad or evil, but is it a bit dirty and anyone who apologizes for them is either an idiot, naïve or has a vested interest in that outcome (in my opinion.)

Their goal is to make as much money on the backs of free athlete labor as possible. More money = higher AD pay = lake houses and European Vacations. Follow. The. Money.

I agree with everything you said but I’m not sure the ethics are that different. I think I read Tech got a billion dollars in research money over a 2-3 year time span. Whatever time span it was we know Tech didn't pay those students who were part of the research that was done. We also don’t really know what Tech spent doing the research. I’m sure there was a profit there. This could get a little political but the value of the degree at any school isn’t in the scholar work you did at the school it’s in the market you qualify for afterwards. I’m thinking the same can be said about SEC athletes.

to me it’s a marketing decision that each school makes. Any school could require more or less academically and flip their core model. The ACC chose academics and has foregone the sports money route. Now they want to keep from being ran out of sports all together. It’s a money for me but not to much for thee fight.

 

[RonJohn]

I agree with everything you said but I’m not sure the ethics are that different. I think I read Tech got a billion dollars in research money over a 2-3 year time span. Whatever time span it was we know Tech didn't pay those students who were part of the research that was done. We also don’t really know what Tech spent doing the research. I’m sure there was a profit there. This could get a little political but the value of the degree at any school isn’t in the scholar work you did at the school it’s in the market you qualify for afterwards. I’m thinking the same can be said about SEC athletes.

to me it’s a marketing decision that each school makes. Any school could require more or less academically and flip their core model. The ACC chose academics and has foregone the sports money route. Now they want to keep from being ran out of sports all together. It’s a money for me but not to much for thee fight.

There are many, many students who make money from the research.

 

[Technut1990]

The meanest, most deserving, thing the alliance could do to the SEC is keep the 4 team CFP but change it to include only conference champions. That would stymie the SEC attempt to load up the playoffs and also force ND into a conference, thereby strengthening the alliance.

Another side benefit is that it makes the conference championship games part of the playoffs.

and there’s the rub right ? Greed. The Big 10 and The ACC would crap a brick if they made that a rule and then had 2 teams in the top 4, both would want 2 of the 4 spots. Also under that scenario I’m not sure Clemson or Ohio State would want ND in their conference.

 

[RonJohn]

The meanest, most deserving, thing the alliance could do to the SEC is keep the 4 team CFP but change it to include only conference champions. That would stymie the SEC attempt to load up the playoffs and also force ND into a conference, thereby strengthening the alliance.

Another side benefit is that it makes the conference championship games part of the playoffs.

That is something that would be easy to do if the Big12 isn't part of the conversation any more. Dictate that the CFP is made up of the P4 conference champions.

What I think is interesting is that it appears that whatever the ACC, Big10, and PAC12 want to do, they are excluding the SEC from the negotiations. At this point it looks like they are going to announce how things are going to be run. They might let the SEC join in if the SEC wants to be part of whatever they have already decided, but it looks like they are not allowing the SEC to have a seat in determining what it is.

 

[Technut1990]

There are many, many students who make money from the research.

will they get NIL deals now ?

 

[RonJohn]

will they get NIL deals now ?

I haven't seen any restrictions on non student-athletes from doing so ever. If a student has a job at GTRI, I don't believe they have any restrictions from doing advertisements if they have an audience. Further than that, I don't think there are any rules that restrict a student GTRI employee from accepting dinner from a roommate's parents, such as restrictions on student-athlete.

 

[Technut1990]

I’ll get yelled at but I don’t think the SEC stays in The NCAA if that happens

 

[bobongo]

will they get NIL deals now ?

I don't think anyone is stopping them.

 

[Technut1990]

I haven't seen any restrictions on non student-athletes from doing so ever. If a student has a job at GTRI, I don't believe they have any restrictions from doing advertisements if they have an audience. Further than that, I don't think there are any rules that restrict a student GTRI employee from accepting dinner from a roommate's parents, such as restrictions on student-athlete.

not trying to have that argument, I’m asking you if Nike is gonna pay a research student 1 million dollars to wear their shoes as he does the research ? Or Is General Dynamics ?

 

[RonJohn]

I’ll get yelled at but I don’t think the SEC stays in The NCAA if that happens

If what happens?

 

[Technut1990]

I don't think anyone is stopping them.

yeah there is, it’s called market demand. Y’all think there’s a corporation out there who wants to sign a deal with someone researching physics ? The entire point of the NIL deals is advertising

 

[Technut1990]

If what happens?

If the Alliance creates a conference champions only BCS

 

[bobongo]

That is something that would be easy to do if the Big12 isn't part of the conversation any more. Dictate that the CFP is made up of the P4 conference champions.

Paradoxically, the SEC poaching of Texas and Oklahoma from the Big 12 makes that more likely to happen.

 

[bobongo]

yeah there is, it’s called market demand. Y’all think there’s a corporation out there who wants to sign a deal with someone researching physics ? The entire point of the NIL deals is advertising

Yes, I know, but that's beside the point which is that if anyone could, they would because there is no regulation against it as there is in college sports. Or, was.

 

[RonJohn]

not trying to have that argument, I’m asking you if Nike is gonna pay a research student 1 million dollars to wear their shoes as he does the research ? Or Is General Dynamics ?

So I really don't understand what you are getting at. You said that students don't make money from research at GT. I stated that students do indeed make money from GTRI. (It is probably mostly graduate students, but GTRI employs plenty of students.) Then you asked if they can now get NIL deals. What I pointed out is that ONLY student-athletes had been prevented from NIL deals in the past. If a student at Georgia Tech develops an audience on social media, they can make money and the school isn't going to stop them. Would Nike pay more money to have a student-athlete advertise for them, sure. Which student would provide more advertising value to Nike? If there was a student at Georgia Tech whose pop band became popular, or who made it to the finals of AGT, they could probably market themselves for ad dollars also. What does that have to do with the fact that non-athletes have always had the ability to market themselves?

 

[Technut1990]

Yes, I know, but that's beside the point which is that if anyone could, they would because there is no regulation against it as there is in college sports.

yeah you are right but aren’t we talking about practicalities

 

[RonJohn]

If the Alliance creates a conference champions only BCS

And I don't know that the other three conferences would cry if they did leave. If the SEC negotiates in bad faith, then setting exact conditions instead of negotiating is a good response. In order to do so, you have to be prepared to end the relationship, otherwise you go back to negotiating with someone that you don't trust.

 

[Technut1990]

So I really don't understand what you are getting at. You said that students don't make money from research at GT. I stated that students do indeed make money from GTRI. (It is probably mostly graduate students, but GTRI employs plenty of students.) Then you asked if they can now get NIL deals. What I pointed out is that ONLY student-athletes had been prevented from NIL deals in the past. If a student at Georgia Tech develops an audience on social media, they can make money and the school isn't going to stop them. Would Nike pay more money to have a student-athlete advertise for them, sure. Which student would provide more advertising value to Nike? If there was a student at Georgia Tech whose pop band became popular, or who made it to the finals of AGT, they could probably market themselves for ad dollars also. What does that have to do with the fact that non-athletes have always had the ability to market themselves?

you went to Tech didn’t you ?