Expansion Talk 2021

[FlatsLander]

Now this? This me likey. Forget the NCAA. Acc brings the boom for basketball and SEC carries their football numbers with the occasional team rising up to challenge that (see Clemson in Football).

Plus the geography works to everyone’s advantage with an east and west division

I wouldn't hate this, but how would it work? Say ACC is East Division and SEC is west, what really changes besides no more postseason games outside the SEC/ACC? Isn't it just replacing the NCAA with the SEC?

 

[WreckinGT]

Jay Bilas is pushing for an ACC/SEC merger. This could be very interesting. Add ND full time and then bring over UT, OU, and OSU and then you have a full 32 team superconference with built-in in-state rivalries in GA, FL, AL, MS, TX, OK, TN, KY, NC, and SC. The B1G and Pac-12 could then merge with some of the Big 12 leftovers to form a second super-conference.

Why would the Big 10 or the SEC do this and dilute their per team payouts?

 

[GT05]

ACC/SEC merger for super conference-
Yes please!!!!

 

[ChicagobasedJacket]

Why would the Big 10 or the SEC do this and dilute their per team payouts?

Actually, Stewart Mandel (theAthletic) wrote an article about this like a year ago. The idea is pooling your rights like the NFL would increase the bidding and you have content for your streaming platform and channels. If you are already in bed with ESPN, then you give them the option for more inventory for their programming decisions. I doubt it happens though since ESPN would have to bid against itself for the ACC piece.

 

[orientalnc]

I posted something similar recently, Texas and OU are already destroying the Big 12. Texas Tech is actively courting the PAC 12. Kansas and Iowa State are calling the B1G. WV would join the ACC in an instant. There is not likely to be a conference to collect GOR penalties.

If the ACC starts to come apart the same will be true.

 

[DH9387]

Why would the Big 10 or the SEC do this and dilute their per team payouts?

Just completely spitballing here, but if the superconferences got big enough and killed the NCAA, they could have their own version of the Big Dance and keep that massive payout for themselves. I assume, without knowing all of the numbers, that that would more than make up for the football TV money dilution that would come from the additional teams. You could structure it like the original Superbowl and have an ACC/SEC tournament and an B1G/Pac-12 tournament with the winners of each playing each other to be declared overall champion.

 

[Techster]

Jay Bilas is pushing for an ACC/SEC merger. This could be very interesting. Add ND full time and then bring over UT, OU, and OSU and then you have a full 32 team superconference with built-in in-state rivalries in GA, FL, AL, MS, TX, OK, TN, KY, NC, and SC. The B1G and Pac-12 could then merge with some of the Big 12 leftovers to form a second super-conference.

This would be the best outcome for GT. More money, more geographic rivalries as it unites our old SEC rivalries (UT, 'Bama, Auburn, etc.) with our new ACC rivalries (Clemson, VT, Duke), and gives us new rivalries that would help with attendance (Texas, OU). It also keeps the academic prestige that went with being in a conference with the ACC. I'll go as far as saying GT could be one of the biggest winners if this happens...there's a reason why UGA keeps c&ckblocking us from rejoining the SEC. Atlanta and GT seriously becomes the center of the college football world because championship games at the Benz is a natural, and the ease of SEC fans already living in Atlanta or within a 3 hr drive makes going to GT home games a great "mini vacation" during the football season. EVERYONE in the south has a college buddy or relative living the Atlanta area.

I'm no fan of the SEC, but in terms of the best position for GT, this is it.

 

[Oldgoldandwhite]

I would almost pay to see that. Wait….

I just want to see Texas, Bama, and Ohio St in the same meeting going over things like schedules.

 

[yeti92]

Just talking here but I’ve now seen 2 WV talking heads saying that the ACC is looking at cutting the lower revenue schools. They think they (WV) and ND are only two of 4-6 teams that are coming to the ACC. The problem, if their “reliable sources” are accurate, is that Ga Tech, Wake and Duke end up in the AAC. The word is that the ACC is talking to all remaining Big 12 teams, with the exceptions of Kansas and K St. apparently what’s fueling some of this is that the PAC 12 is a “liberal” conference and their “ code of standards” conflicts with Baylor, TCU and Texas Tech because they are conservative Christian schools whose policy and philosophical standards aren’t in line with PAC 12’s.

I know everything is a rumor right now but I do believe if the ACC wants to truly compete with the other 2 they will have to separate themselves from some long standing members, I just didn’t see Tech as a non productive member. its also of note that the new Chair seems to think football is improperly prioritized within the conference, meaning it ain’t #1, that could also be a preview of the current ND logic and hesitation about bringing football into the conference, they don’t wish to be the # 1 or 2 football school in a basketball focused conference.

Lol, WV has been hoping and wishing to get into the ACC forever qnd has been repeatedly turned down. They haven't grown in value since they were last rejected, and now that Texas and OU are leaving, they are basically trying to show up to the party with their pants around their ankles.

 

[RonJohn]

Just completely spitballing here, but if the superconferences got big enough and killed the NCAA, they could have their own version of the Big Dance and keep that massive payout for themselves. I assume, without knowing all of the numbers, that that would more than make up for the football TV money dilution that would come from the additional teams. You could structure it like the original Superbowl and have an ACC/SEC tournament and an B1G/Pac-12 tournament with the winners of each playing each other to be declared overall champion.

Part of the appeal of the NCAA Tournament is the Cinderella. If the tournament is made up of only P5 teams, who would the Cinderella's be? Kansas State? Wake Forest? If there were 80 Superconference teams, the tournament would lose viewership from the remaining 270 Division 1 schools, their fans, and alumni. It might make for better football. It might even make for better basketball. However, it wouldn't make for a better tournament.

The CFP doesn't make payouts to teams and conferences that are not in it. Also, the SEC and Big10 would not agree to a system where only their champion is in the playoffs. The SEC would rather have a 12 team playoff and drop the bottom two teams in the SEC to make up the pool.(or bottom 4 teams if Texas and Oklahoma join) There is no way they will agree to only 1 SEC team, or even only 2 SEC teams in the playoffs. They would also not agree to having a mathematical formula for deciding what teams make it to the playoffs. They have been pushing the idea that an SEC team is automatically better than any team from any other conference, and they want to be able to use purely subjective criteria to determine who gets in the playoffs.

 

[Technut1990]

in a world of conferences each are expending, they have to. In the world of expansion, teams are the value play. Numbers are the game. Yes a conferences school wish list or preferences lead the effort where possible but when it comes to expansion The ACC will take who they can, especially if ND opts out. If ND does opt out you can count on WV coming in. The ACC will not be told no by two schools back to back, they will turn to the known ”yes”, they could not take two “no’s” back to back and then turn to a 3rd school

and I don’t believe the ACC would ever join the SEC, they will waive bye to Clemson and Fl State, maybe NC and Miami and then consolidate with Big 12 schools, or go straight to The AAC. if they’ve stuck to one thing it’s academic standards and they will die as a conference before the majority of ACC schools vote to join Georgia, LSU or any other group that hurts their upper brow opinion of themselves ( The ACC’s ) Most of our debates are geared toward what Tech needs to do and more often than not someone points out “The Hill’s” standards prevent it. If Tech admin won’t drop their standards for there own sports teams they won’t for The SEC. The same would be said for Wake, Duke, NC State, Boston College and poss Syracuse.

another no go would be The SEC itself, if they are after power they don’t want half of the ACC, just being honest.

BTW it’s not good for Tech. Tech is trying to get competitive in a conference that has 1 powerhouse and maybe 3 upper mid level schools in Football, how long do you think it takes Tech to compete against Alabama, LSU, Auburn, Georgia, Texas, Oklahoma etc….. it would be an acknowledgment of failed expectations To go to the SEC at this point.

 

[GoJacketsInRaleigh]

in a world of conferences each are expending, they have to. In the world of expansion, teams are the value play. Numbers are the game. Yes a conferences school wish list or preferences lead the effort where possible but when it comes to expansion The ACC will take who they can, especially if ND opts out. If ND does opt out you can count on WV coming in. The ACC will not be told no by two schools back to back, they will turn to the known ”yes”, they could not take two “no’s” back to back and then turn to a 3rd school

and I don’t believe the ACC would ever join the SEC, they will waive bye to Clemson and Fl State, maybe NC and Miami and then consolidate with Big 12 schools, or go straight to The AAC. if they’ve stuck to one thing it’s academic standards and they will die as a conference before the majority of ACC schools vote to join Georgia, LSU or any other group that hurts their upper brow opinion of themselves ( The ACC’s ) Most of our debates are geared toward what Tech needs to do and more often than not someone points out “The Hill’s” standards prevent it. If Tech admin won’t drop their standards for there own sports teams they won’t for The SEC. The same would be said for Wake, Duke, NC State, Boston College and poss Syracuse.

another no go would be The SEC itself, if they are after power they don’t want half of the ACC, just being honest.

BTW it’s not good for Tech. Tech is trying to get competitive in a conference that has 1 powerhouse and maybe 3 upper mid level schools in Football, how long do you think it takes Tech to compete against Alabama, LSU, Auburn, Georgia, Texas, Oklahoma etc….. it would be an acknowledgment of failed expectations To go to the SEC at this point.

I'm confused. You say the ACC will turn to WVU and then say the ACC will stick to it's academic standards. Those two things directly contradict each other.

The ACC would merge with the SEC in a New York second. No one is turning that money down.

 

[RonJohn]

The ACC would merge with the SEC in a New York second. No one is turning that money down.

What money would that be? Merging the ACC and SEC would not automatically double the SEC's money. They already have a presence in the Southern part of the ACC's territory. They can schedule games against the middle and bottom of the ACC very easily to get the matchups if they want them. They can do that without paying out a full share of SEC revenue.

I am sure a lot of ACC athletic departments would like to add the ACC money and the SEC money and divide it equally amount all 28 (maybe soon to be 30) teams. I am also sure that the SEC athletic departments would rather not. If the SEC were to make a move on the ACC, I don't think it would be a merger. I think they would just try to get the teams they want out of the ACC, and leave all the others behind.

 

[Technut1990]

I'm confused. You say the ACC will turn to WVU and then say the ACC will stick to it's academic standards. Those two things directly contradict each other.

The ACC would merge with the SEC in a New York second. No one is turning that money down.

The SEC dosent need the entire ACC and I don’t think would offer to merge with a conference that fields the caliber of football teams such as 5-7 of those the ACC fields, they are trying to become a powerhouse across the board, not devolve. The ACC a will turn to a sure yes rather than join a conference that would require them to compromise every schools academics, like the SEC would. If The ACC takes WV they still control standards, they don’t if they are in the SEC.

WV has to come up rather than the ACC going down

another factor, Clemson ain’t going 12-0 against the SEC you can bet they prefer the ACC right now

 

[Techster]

BTW it’s not good for Tech. Tech is trying to get competitive in a conference that has 1 powerhouse and maybe 3 upper mid level schools in Football, how long do you think it takes Tech to compete against Alabama, LSU, Auburn, Georgia, Texas, Oklahoma etc….. it would be an acknowledgment of failed expectations To go to the SEC at this point.

Our fans...LOL. Getting more money and being part of the center of the college athletics world isn't good for GT? GT already punches above our weight with one of the lowest revenue totals in the P5, to almost double our media revenue would be a boon. Also, it won't be just Alabama/LSU/Auburn/UGA/Texas/etc. There will also be the Kentuckies/Vandys/Dukes/Miss States/NC States/UVAs...teams GT should beat almost every year. You can't get into the fight if you keep yourself out of the ring. More money gives GT a fighting chance.

Here are the plain facts: There is about to a seismic shift in college sports and as of right now, there are two conferences that look to be biggest battleships in the sea. The SEC and the B1G. Everyone with half a brain sees where all this is going. If you get an invite to one of the battleships, you better take a seat, because every little boat left over after expansion is going to get sunk in their wake. GT walked away from the SEC, and turned down the B1G, and now we're at risk of being at the mercy of events outside of our control...whereas if we were current members of either the SEC or B1G, GT would be worrying more about investing in the future rather than worrying about being left out in the cold. Once Clemson/UNC/UVA/FSU/Duke leaves, it's game over for the ACC. Just look at what happened to the schools in the Big East. Look at the schools in the AAC, Conference USA, and Sun Belt because that will be our fate if we don't join the B1G or SEC. Our best case scenario in that situation is hoping GT becomes a UCF. That's not a future I want for GT.

 

[Techster]

Really good thread by Hale and why it's even less like ND joins the ACC...or any conference for that matter UNLESS they are forced to (in other words, their playoff guarantee is taken away, and not being in a conference severely hinders them...keep in mind, ND has a unique agreement for a playoff spot. They're the only singular school that currently has that.).

 

[Technut1990]

Our fans...LOL. Getting more money and being part of the center of the college athletics world isn't good for GT? GT already punches above our weight with one of the lowest revenue totals in the P5, to almost double our media revenue would be a boon. Also, it won't be just Alabama/LSU/Auburn/UGA/Texas/etc. There will also be the Kentuckies/Vandys/Dukes/Miss States/NC States/UVAs...teams GT should beat almost every year. You can't get into the fight if you keep yourself out of the ring. More money gives GT a fighting chance.

Here are the plain facts: There is about to a seismic shift in college sports and as of right now, there are two conferences that look to be biggest battleships in the sea. The SEC and the B1G. Everyone with half a brain sees where all this is going. If you get an invite to one of the battleships, you better take a seat, because every little boat left over after expansion is going to get sunk in their wake. GT walked away from the SEC, and turned down the B1G, and now we're at risk of being at the mercy of events outside of our control...whereas if we were current members of either the SEC or B1G, GT would be worrying more about investing in the future rather than worrying about being left out in the cold. Once Clemson/UNC/UVA/FSU/Duke leaves, it's game over for the ACC. Just look at what happened to the schools in the Big East. Look at the schools in the AAC, Conference USA, and Sun Belt because that will be our fate if we don't join the B1G or SEC. Our best case scenario in that situation is hoping GT becomes a UCF. That's not a future I want for GT.

and what you think may happen is that The Dukes and Vandys are still in the SEC after all the merging dust settles. This isn’t about fandom, and I’ll take the backseat to none in that category either. It’s about winning. Sure we can jump to the mighty SEC and be the 20th best team out of the 28, that will do all the fans and season ticket sales wonders. WTF let’s fight Vandy for the cellar. IF you think Tech is on the same level as Bama, Georgia, LSU, Texas, Oklahoma, Auburn, Florida, Texas A&M, Clemson, Missouri, North Carolina, Florida State Or Miami financially you would be mistaken. You say we would be part of the center of the college athletics but we wouldn’t. We would be knee deep in the middle of billion dollar sports budgets while spending a third of that on our sports programs. Competitive hope not withstanding we may be on par with South Carolina, Mississippi St, Tenn, Ole Miss, Kentucky and Arkansas but doubtful, they all outspend Tech on football alone. The absolute truth is it does us no good to be in a conference that’s so stacked with money and teams that our future would be that of Vanderbilts. Money does no good when the competition is light years ahead before the bigger pie gets split. Tech may increase it sports budget by 50 million but that won’t touch what these other schools can already spend. They are already rich and they will add the same amount to their budget as Tech does and we will still be behind.

Techs best hope is that The ACC stays together where we can continue our upward course, where recruits see us as the outlier and a up and coming sports school. I love Tech and because of that I don’t wish to see us mired in the lower middle of schools who have been pumping money and recruits into their programs for 20 years as we just start.

If all this shifting is truly gonna hit, and I’ve stated several times i believe it is, The ACC would be better off casing aside the lower tier of member schools and going all out to get ND, Oklahoma St, Texas Tech, Baylor and yes even West Virginia, even UCF and USF

IF it folds into the SEC most of the ACC teams that go will immediately become 2nd tier teams just in it for the money. Most Tech fans want wins. I’m not betraying my team by hoping they can land in a conference that makes money and in which they can actually be contenders to win the championship.

Tech would be stupid to jump in that SEC tidal wave for any other reason than money. If you want a team that’s playing for something every year we are better suited to play in a conference with schools that are in similar situations. In any scenario you can imagine Tech doesn’t improve until the school dedicates more resources to its sports, we can be in the SEC if folks like but our Admin still has to spend the money on itself.

 

[bobongo]

This would be the best outcome for GT. More money, more geographic rivalries as it unites our old SEC rivalries (UT, 'Bama, Auburn, etc.) with our new ACC rivalries (Clemson, VT, Duke), and gives us new rivalries that would help with attendance (Texas, OU). It also keeps the academic prestige that went with being in a conference with the ACC. I'll go as far as saying GT could be one of the biggest winners if this happens...there's a reason why UGA keeps c&ckblocking us from rejoining the SEC. Atlanta and GT seriously becomes the center of the college football world because championship games at the Benz is a natural, and the ease of SEC fans already living in Atlanta or within a 3 hr drive makes going to GT home games a great "mini vacation" during the football season. EVERYONE in the south has a college buddy or relative living the Atlanta area.

I'm no fan of the SEC, but in terms of the best position for GT, this is it.

32 teams? That's not a conference, it's a league. It would take four years to plow through every team in the mega-cluster.

 

[TooTall]

Keep on mind, when the $ec adds OU and Texas, thats 2 more $ec teams that have won national titles since the mutts last one. There's always a bright light in any dark situation! #itsalwayshateweek

 

[Techster]

32 teams? That's not a conference, it's a league. It would take four years to plow through every team in the mega-cluster.

Like I said somewhere else, the SEC is thinking on another level right now. I'm not 100% certain it will involve the NCAA after it's all said and done. There's a joke going around Twitter that the NCAA bent over backwards for the SEC over the years, and now the SEC is returning the favor by breaking the NCAA.