ESPN says we have

[WreckinGT]

eh saying they lost 17/19 games while true is kind of slanting the information. reality is they went 7-6 -> 1-11 -> 7-6. they basically had one season of struggle and honestly their recruiting was almost entirely unaffected. their 2018 class (during the 1-11 year) was actually their best class in the last few years. the 2017 class that was to be recruited after firing the coach and getting pretty publicly dragged finished the exact same as the class the previous season from before all of the issues.

also looking at the actual penalties is kind of ridiculous and calling it a slap on the wrist isn’t even fair to wrists. it was honestly comparable to our issues from the demaryius fiasco lol

Recruiting unaffected? Eight players requested out of their LOI in 2016, including the #1 OG in the country and the #3 WR. Their class was ranked 17th and dropped to 40th in the 247 composite and 58th at rivals. Those were guys they couldnt replace because recruiting for that season was over. The 2017 class lost 5 commitments, including phenom Kellen Mond. In 2017 they should have had Jarrett Stidham and Kellen Mond competing at QB. Two top 100 QBs who are now on NFL rosters. Instead they did what they could with Charlie Brewer. I wouldnt call that "almost entirely unaffected".

 

[lv20gt]

Recruiting unaffected? Eight players requested out of their LOI in 2016, including the #1 OG in the country and the #3 WR. Their class was ranked 17th and dropped to 40th in the 247 composite and 58th at rivals. Those were guys they couldnt replace because recruiting for that season was over. The 2017 class lost 5 commitments, including phenom Kellen Mond. In 2017 they should have had Jarrett Stidham and Kellen Mond competing at QB. Two top 100 QBs who are now on NFL rosters. Instead they did what they could with Charlie Brewer. I wouldnt call that "almost entirely unaffected".

In the context of the conversation, yeah, they were relatively unaffected. Here were their class rankings on 247 leading up to and then including the coaching change.

2012 - 26th
2013 - 27th
2014 - 25th
2015 - 36th
2016 - 40th
2017 - 40th
2018 - 29th
2019 - 39th

Sure, they saw a drop, and you could argue that without the scandal they would have capitalized on recent success, but that is a far cry from near death penalty like it was portrayed especially since there was no actual scholarship reductions of post season bans. What few penalties they did get hit with was more related to recruiting infractions than the abuse scandal. Hell, you could argue the recruiting hit was more because they fired their coach in may and hired an interim coach than the actual scandal. Had they fired Briles at the end of the 2015 season and made a normal hire they likely don't see that recruiting hit, or not as much. But they wanted to fire for cause and so waited until the end of the investigation.

But they were a program that had averaged going 10-3 the five years prior to the coaching change happening, and the actual fallout that the new coach was going to have to deal with was relatively minimal compared. They were much more attractive a position when they hired Rhule than we were hiring Collins, and not because they took it slow. They were just a better program with more recent success, better recruiting, better fit, and the biggest problem listed, QB issue, was no worse than what we experienced at the QB spot on top of the other issues.

Please consider my point - rather than something u don't agree with.
Point: We went fast and they went slow.
Now we are going slow.

They went slow because of the timing of it. Not some grand plan to "make the right hire". Had they fired Briles in November instead of the following May, they'd have made a normal hire the previous december.

We didn't do the same thing, because Johnson retired in late november allowing us to have a normal search and make a normal timed hire.

So what is your suggestion? We hire an interim coach with an entire interim staff to coach for one year while we take a year to make a hire for a job that will still largely be unattractive to most of the higher thought of offensive minds? I mean, we all know the actual suggestion and it has nothing to do with making a fast or slow hire.

 

[WreckinGT]

In the context of the conversation, yeah, they were relatively unaffected. Here were their class rankings on 247 leading up to and then including the coaching change.

2012 - 26th
2013 - 27th
2014 - 25th
2015 - 36th
2016 - 40th
2017 - 40th
2018 - 29th
2019 - 39th

Sure, they saw a drop, and you could argue that without the scandal they would have capitalized on recent success, but that is a far cry from near death penalty like it was portrayed especially since there was no actual scholarship reductions of post season bans. What few penalties they did get hit with was more related to recruiting infractions than the abuse scandal. Hell, you could argue the recruiting hit was more because they fired their coach in may and hired an interim coach than the actual scandal. Had they fired Briles at the end of the 2015 season and made a normal hire they likely don't see that recruiting hit, or not as much. But they wanted to fire for cause and so waited until the end of the investigation.

But they were a program that had averaged going 10-3 the five years prior to the coaching change happening, and the actual fallout that the new coach was going to have to deal with was relatively minimal compared. They were much more attractive a position when they hired Rhule than we were hiring Collins, and not because they took it slow. They were just a better program with more recent success, better recruiting, better fit, and the biggest problem listed, QB issue, was no worse than what we experienced at the QB spot on top of the other issues.

There is no argument about whether they would have capitalized on their success. They already did. They had the #17 class in the country signed and because of the scandal lost 8 players in a matter of days when they asked to be released from their LOIs. They also had several players transfer and lost nearly all of their commitments from the next class, including Kellen Mond. Without the scandal the 2016 class was #17 and the 2017 class was likely going to be highly rated as well based on how is started. In the end they lost 8 scholarship players instantly, some very highly rated and dropped in recruiting rankings. There is no world where the scandal didn't affect anything. That argument is ridiculous.

 

[lv20gt]

There is no world where the scandal didn't affect anything. That argument is ridiculous.

Nothing you described comes close to the death penalty. That is the context of the conversation you are blatantly ignoring, and compared to the death penalty they were relatively unaffected. It's not even an argument. Compare losing the entire program for multiple years ro having a 40th ranked class and some transfers instead of a 17th ranked class. It's not close. What is ridiculous is trying to argue what they got was close to the death penalty or that they had some grand slow play plan because they hired an interim coach in late May.

 

[JacketFan137]

So what is your suggestion? We hire an interim coach with an entire interim staff to coach for one year while we take a year to make a hire for a job that will still largely be unattractive to most of the higher thought of offensive minds? I mean, we all know the actual suggestion and it has nothing to do with making a fast or slow hire.

your whole comment summed it up nicely. we can’t hire an interim coach for the next season when our coach announces his retirement in december. with the plan to move out of the option as well i don’t see why anyone would want a 1 year contract as an interim guy on a team without a qb, 100 RBs and a awful pass blocking o line.

based on techs history i don’t see us letting collins go til the end of the season barring an unforeseen scandal. by that point the coaching carousel will be in full effect and it would be totally normal to just hire a full time coach with a multi year contract. the original baylor point was just some weird stretch of information that compared a vastly different situation to ours in an effort to further take a dump on our leadership. based on our guys mistakes and shortcomings i don’t think we need to stretch the truth to make a point that they have let us down in recent years lol

 

[iceeater1969]

What ever your plan for end of a bad 22 season , it will require more $.


Situation
The biggest wake up call is The Red Out where gt season ticket holders sold out the players for the Uga game. Are we going to take ownership or expect someone else to handle the $.
( At Baylor even though they had pledged $ on new stadium many many dropped being a boosters and season ticket holders because of the murder and rape stain. The donors feared spending good money till the Ncaa passed on death penalty.

We are in similar money situation
We have a giant debt ( 200mm$) , long term near lowest in acc donations and ticket sales, and have had a head coach and staff that learned on job for 3 years. Further we have tapped the bid donors to build a fancy building for the AA and a weight room.

With NIL and likely big boy football alignment our $ death is looking more likely.
That fat TV deal is looking like it may fly away.

If we are going to " clean house" , then I hope we can find enough $ to do it first class.
The Red Out says there is not enough money to go first class new hire

My gut says if Collins and Thacker are toxic ,we will limp along w an interim head coach

 

[Augusta_Jacket]

I don't understand this "Baylor went slow" argument. Briles was fired May 26th and Grobe was hired May 30th. They rushed to find a willing coach to come in and save any portion of the season, since summer practice was less than a month away. They chose to go the "caretaker" route not out of an abundance of caution, but because no decent coach was about to step into that quagmire until some idea of the NCAA penalties was known. Did they make a good hire in Grobe? Sure, but as was stated earlier, the Baylor situation was completely different from ours.

 

[bobongo]

We wouldn’t win 5 games with the easiest schedule in the country.

Hard to say about this year, because it's full of unknowns. But let's look at 2021 P-5 schedules. Arizona State had the easiest one in the country at #88 overall, according to Sports Betting Dime:

NCAAF Strength-of-Schedule Rankings

See the 2023 college football strength-of-schedule rankings, based on last year's efficiency, returning production, incoming transfers, and more.

www.sportsbettingdime.com

This was the ASU schedule in 2021. Hard to see us squeezing more than 4 wins out of this regular season lineup:

2021 Arizona State Football Schedule | FBSchedules.com

View the 2021 Arizona State Football Schedule at FBSchedules.com. The ASU Sun Devils schedule includes opponents, date, time, and TV.

fbschedules.com

 

[JacketFan137]

Hard to say about this year, because it's full of unknowns. But let's look at 2021 P-5 schedules. Arizona State had the easiest one in the country at #88 overall, according to Sports Betting Dime:

NCAAF Strength-of-Schedule Rankings

See the 2023 college football strength-of-schedule rankings, based on last year's efficiency, returning production, incoming transfers, and more.

www.sportsbettingdime.com

This was the ASU schedule in 2021. Hard to see us squeezing more than 4 wins out of this regular season lineup:

2021 Arizona State Football Schedule | FBSchedules.com

View the 2021 Arizona State Football Schedule at FBSchedules.com. The ASU Sun Devils schedule includes opponents, date, time, and TV.

fbschedules.com

lol saw the comment before the username but after looking at the schedule it was obvious who was saying this. only way you can’t find 5 wins on that schedule is if you’re trying to not find 5 wins on that schedule

 

[bobongo]

lol saw the comment before the username but after looking at the schedule it was obvious who was saying this. only way you can’t find 5 wins on that schedule is if you’re trying to not find 5 wins on that schedule

Can't simply express an opinion without making it personal, can you? And what are the 5 wins you see on that schedule?

 

[jgtengineer]

I don't understand this "Baylor went slow" argument. Briles was fired May 26th and Grobe was hired May 30th. They rushed to find a willing coach to come in and save any portion of the season, since summer practice was less than a month away. They chose to go the "caretaker" route not out of an abundance of caution, but because no decent coach was about to step into that quagmire until some idea of the NCAA penalties was known. Did they make a good hire in Grobe? Sure, but as was stated earlier, the Baylor situation was completely different from ours.

The issue was we tried to jump to the RPO based offense too quick if that makes sense. I think we could have gone a bit more of a gradual change while still going to a "pro style" offense. When coach takes over he looks at the QB room and we don't really have a traditional Passing QB. This is known and this is fine. So going to a system that requires someone who can master inside the numbers quick passing was a bad idea. What we had was a series of QB's who were comfortable undercenter and some amazing RB talent.

So run an I. In truth a hat on Hat power offense is about as prostyle as it could get. You are playing smash mouth hit you in the face football. Our base formation then becomes a 21 I formation. With JP mason at Tail (or griffen) Jordan Howard at Fullback (mason can slide up here too) And Davis at Tight. Our base play becomes a Power Dive off tackle take advantage of our pulling guards and speed. And there's an entire 5-10 play tree that builds off this with play action passes , counters, FB dives and such. You can present Twins, motion to twins, motion to trips (with FB going to twins side tight end. Motion to 21. And motion/shift to flex if you have a speed tailback in (basically motion him out to slot and keep the fullback down this allows you to run stuff like midline or traps like we use to. Coach P actually did a ton of this before he got to temple Motioning from I to flexbone it was very weird he chucked out all that experience.)

We then have a pretty standard Gun package that's 3 and 4 wide. And a lot of singleback concepts that can be run out of either under center or gun. (same plays basically for variance). And a lot of screens to get easy completions.

This in place we are basically running a "pro style" Power run offense. Would we have had a ton of success? Who knows I think we'd have surprised some people who weren't use to some smash mouth football. But this offense is also a ball control offense which helps our defense. One of the main issues with our defense is I am not entirely sure we are that much worse person to person, we should be better by recruiting. I am also not sure the Defensive coaches were any more incompetent than people we've had in the past. I think we just were out gunned and we had people out of position. Then because our offense couldn't stay on the field our lack of depth lead to us getting gassed and shelled. Which lead to panic which lead to more out of position. Things were mismanaged from an expectation to a choosing scheme level.

 

[JacketFan137]

The issue was we tried to jump to the RPO based offense too quick if that makes sense. I think we could have gone a bit more of a gradual change while still going to a "pro style" offense. When coach takes over he looks at the QB room and we don't really have a traditional Passing QB. This is known and this is fine. So going to a system that requires someone who can master inside the numbers quick passing was a bad idea. What we had was a series of QB's who were comfortable undercenter and some amazing RB talent.

So run an I. In truth a hat on Hat power offense is about as prostyle as it could get. You are playing smash mouth hit you in the face football. Our base formation then becomes a 21 I formation. With JP mason at Tail (or griffen) Jordan Howard at Fullback (mason can slide up here too) And Davis at Tight. Our base play becomes a Power Dive off tackle take advantage of our pulling guards and speed. And there's an entire 5-10 play tree that builds off this with play action passes , counters, FB dives and such. You can present Twins, motion to twins, motion to trips (with FB going to twins side tight end. Motion to 21. And motion/shift to flex if you have a speed tailback in (basically motion him out to slot and keep the fullback down this allows you to run stuff like midline or traps like we use to. Coach P actually did a ton of this before he got to temple Motioning from I to flexbone it was very weird he chucked out all that experience.)

We then have a pretty standard Gun package that's 3 and 4 wide. And a lot of singleback concepts that can be run out of either under center or gun. (same plays basically for variance). And a lot of screens to get easy completions.

This in place we are basically running a "pro style" Power run offense. Would we have had a ton of success? Who knows I think we'd have surprised some people who weren't use to some smash mouth football. But this offense is also a ball control offense which helps our defense. One of the main issues with our defense is I am not entirely sure we are that much worse person to person, we should be better by recruiting. I am also not sure the Defensive coaches were any more incompetent than people we've had in the past. I think we just were out gunned and we had people out of position. Then because our offense couldn't stay on the field our lack of depth lead to us getting gassed and shelled. Which lead to panic which lead to more out of position. Things were mismanaged from an expectation to a choosing scheme level.

had we had the line of the 2014 team the I stuff might have worked but tech hasn’t had an o line that could impose its will on anyone since 2016. would probably have been just as bad, but anyway i also think to move away from that offense we needed to show some proof that we were moving away from it to recruits. when the whole system is basically just the same thing out of slightly different formations i think that was gonna be a tough sell, but hindsight is 20/20. mistakes were definitely made and no one can argue with that.

 

[jgtengineer]

had we had the line of the 2014 team the I stuff might have worked but tech hasn’t had an o line that could impose its will on anyone since 2016. would probably have been just as bad, but anyway i also think to move away from that offense we needed to show some proof that we were moving away from it to recruits. when the whole system is basically just the same thing out of slightly different formations i think that was gonna be a tough sell, but hindsight is 20/20. mistakes were definitely made and no one can argue with that.

Nah man think abotu you are basically running the Calvin Johnson/Tashard Choice Dallas cowboys offense Geoff could have spun that like crazy. All the calvin highlights are out of those formations.

 

[JacketFan137]

Nah man think abotu you are basically running the Calvin Johnson/Tashard Choice Dallas cowboys offense Geoff could have spun that like crazy. All the calvin highlights are out of those formations.

and all those highlights are from 2006/2007. very different game today

 

[Augusta_Jacket]

The issue was we tried to jump to the RPO based offense too quick if that makes sense. I think we could have gone a bit more of a gradual change while still going to a "pro style" offense. When coach takes over he looks at the QB room and we don't really have a traditional Passing QB. This is known and this is fine. So going to a system that requires someone who can master inside the numbers quick passing was a bad idea. What we had was a series of QB's who were comfortable undercenter and some amazing RB talent.

So run an I. In truth a hat on Hat power offense is about as prostyle as it could get. You are playing smash mouth hit you in the face football. Our base formation then becomes a 21 I formation. With JP mason at Tail (or griffen) Jordan Howard at Fullback (mason can slide up here too) And Davis at Tight. Our base play becomes a Power Dive off tackle take advantage of our pulling guards and speed. And there's an entire 5-10 play tree that builds off this with play action passes , counters, FB dives and such. You can present Twins, motion to twins, motion to trips (with FB going to twins side tight end. Motion to 21. And motion/shift to flex if you have a speed tailback in (basically motion him out to slot and keep the fullback down this allows you to run stuff like midline or traps like we use to. Coach P actually did a ton of this before he got to temple Motioning from I to flexbone it was very weird he chucked out all that experience.)

We then have a pretty standard Gun package that's 3 and 4 wide. And a lot of singleback concepts that can be run out of either under center or gun. (same plays basically for variance). And a lot of screens to get easy completions.

This in place we are basically running a "pro style" Power run offense. Would we have had a ton of success? Who knows I think we'd have surprised some people who weren't use to some smash mouth football. But this offense is also a ball control offense which helps our defense. One of the main issues with our defense is I am not entirely sure we are that much worse person to person, we should be better by recruiting. I am also not sure the Defensive coaches were any more incompetent than people we've had in the past. I think we just were out gunned and we had people out of position. Then because our offense couldn't stay on the field our lack of depth lead to us getting gassed and shelled. Which lead to panic which lead to more out of position. Things were mismanaged from an expectation to a choosing scheme level.

None of that explains the "Baylor went slow" argument, which was the point of my post...

 

[jgtengineer]

and all those highlights are from 2006/2007. very different game today

You are missing the context of what I said. I said he could easily have sold recruits on that because of those highlights. He managed to sell people on our horrible offense that wasn't doing anything close to being half decent.

For modern examples while not being the exact same Shannahan offenses "look" like what we would be running even if they aren't. Same with a good number of Pro Style super bowl winning/playing in offenses look a lot like that too even though pro offenses are infinitely more complex in HOW they get to the off tackle run based on reads and formations but it would have looked "close".

Then again Baltimores out there running a weird version of the Veer/Pistol option which suddenly makes that a "prostyle" offense.

 

[jgtengineer]

None of that explains the "Baylor went slow" argument, which was the point of my post...

Sure it does. Baylor looked at their situation and went with a rebuild that fit their situation. In their case it was not a talent/ system change issue it was a culture change. They Hired a coach that was a squeaky clean to revitalize their culture while at the same time winning a bit then found the coach that could take over and do that correctly. Going slow doesn't necessarily mean not having success on the field it has to do with how they went about trying to solve the problem with their program and taking a measured approach to doing so.

But i will admit i was more focusing on how our situation was different and mismanaged.

 

[Augusta_Jacket]

Sure it does. Baylor looked at their situation and went with a rebuild that fit their situation. In their case it was not a talent/ system change issue it was a culture change. They Hired a coach that was a squeaky clean to revitalize their culture while at the same time winning a bit then found the coach that could take over and do that correctly. Going slow doesn't necessarily mean not having success on the field it has to do with how they went about trying to solve the problem with their program and taking a measured approach to doing so.

But i will admit i was more focusing on how our situation was different and mismanaged.

This reply explains why you think "Baylor went slow"

Your previous reply never even mentioned Baylor...

 

[takethepoints]

It's the same every year at the start of each season we are in the top 10 for hardest schedules

Yes, and the question is why? I've written here before about the unrealistic expectations of some of our fans and - dare I say it? - of our AD and coaching staff. It shows up no where more clearly then in our scheduling. Our athletic department seems to think that insuring a tough schedule will either a) toughen us up or b) insure rankings or c) help recruiting or d) all three. What it does instead is make it damn near impossible for us to have a consistently winning team. I'm with those above who would ditch the game with Georgia until we get our heads above water. We ditched Awbun, Bammer, and Tennessee without even a blink. I would miss the Ugag game just as much as I miss playing Auburn, but enough is enough.

I wouldn't have said this as few as 5 years ago when we had teams that could and did beat the Dwags regularly. But now we have given up most of the advantages we had then and without them we don't stand much of a chance. Why prolong the situation, simply for bravado's sake? Schedule to win and start doing it now.

 

[JacketFan137]

Yes, and the question is why? I've written here before about the unrealistic expectations of some of our fans and - dare I say it? - of our AD and coaching staff. It shows up no where more clearly then in our scheduling. Our athletic department seems to think that insuring a tough schedule will either a) toughen us up or b) insure rankings or c) help recruiting or d) all three. What it does instead is make it damn near impossible for us to have a consistently winning team. I'm with those above who would ditch the game with Georgia until we get our heads above water. We ditched Awbun, Bammer, and Tennessee without even a blink. I would miss the Ugag game just as much as I miss playing Auburn, but enough is enough.

I wouldn't have said this as few as 5 years ago when we had teams that could and did beat the Dwags regularly. But now we have given up most of the advantages we had then and without them we don't stand much of a chance. Why prolong the situation, simply for bravado's sake? Schedule to win and start doing it now.

at what point did we have any “advantages” we have beat them 4 times since 2000. they crushed gailey, they’ve crushed the option and they’ve now crushed collins. dropping them now would be pointless when they’ve been doing the same thing to us for almost 2 decades. at no point in the past 2 decades have we beat them regularly. it’s also one of the only games that fills the stadium at this point so i don’t think we’re dropping it any time soon