ESPN says we have

[JacketFan137]

One time long ago ND had a great coach but followed him w a great high school coach. That was a disaster!
Forgot his name

CGC and Tstan initially shopped in the G5 department store and then only hired rookies or and journeymen.
They must have some more $ as we have journeymen from P5 schools.

We have much more talented players and much more expierenced asst coaches. Now we need a good experienced head coach.

i think they definitely gave collins some resources as a nudge to say here you go we’ve invested in the program now it’s on you. i think it may have been too late unfortunately and we should have known wayyyyyy sooner patenaude was not the guy, but i do wonder if covid made the powers that be a little more hesitant to fire and start the hiring process for assistants. either way long has seen success and by virtue of not being dave patenaude i expect a significant upturn in offensive production

 

[lv20gt]

i think they definitely gave collins some resources as a nudge to say here you go we’ve invested in the program now it’s on you. i think it may have been too late unfortunately and we should have known wayyyyyy sooner patenaude was not the guy, but i do wonder if covid made the powers that be a little more hesitant to fire and start the hiring process for assistants. either way long has seen success and by virtue of not being dave patenaude i expect a significant upturn in offensive production

It should be obvious that we hired Patenaude knowing it was likely we'd have to replace him. Covid may have extended it a year but I doubt it.

When we chose to switch from the option we had a good running back room and little else on offense for anything that wasn't the option. It wasn't just about the $. Why would any OC that had options at this level want to step into that situation? So we went cheap on the OC (in addition to elsewhere) who was familiar with the coach we just hired, but emphasized recruiting, and made a much better hire three years later when the limitations of our roster due to changing systems wouldn't be nearly as big a deal.

 

[WreckinGT]

i think they definitely gave collins some resources as a nudge to say here you go we’ve invested in the program now it’s on you. i think it may have been too late unfortunately and we should have known wayyyyyy sooner patenaude was not the guy, but i do wonder if covid made the powers that be a little more hesitant to fire and start the hiring process for assistants. either way long has seen success and by virtue of not being dave patenaude i expect a significant upturn in offensive production

On offense we lost our three best offensive linemen, our two best running backs, one of which is one of the best players in the country, and three of our top 4 receivers. I think Long is an obvious upgrade but expecting him to significantly improve the offense in one year losing that much production is a fools hope.

 

[JacketFan137]

On offense we lost our three best offensive linemen, our two best running backs, one of which is one of the best players in the country, and three of our top 4 receivers. I think Long is an obvious upgrade but expecting him to significantly improve the offense in one year losing that much production is a fools hope.

our line was absolutely atrocious last season so expecting them to be better this year is a very low bar. our WRs were mediocre at best as well and we have the likely return of leo blackburn and other guys that looked solid in the spring game. RB is not impossible to replace and we’ve seen dontae look good in actual games. not gibbs good but he’s a great player. aside from gibbs and mason i really don’t think anyone could argue there was any talent above replacement level in this offense.

we’ve also gone from a guy who was an absolute clown to a guy who was nominated for assistant of the year and was seen as an up and coming head coaching candidate during his time at ND. we could be worse we could be the same, but to act like there’s no shot of significant improvement is just more continued negativity just for the sake of being negative

 

[iceeater1969]

It should be obvious that we hired Patenaude knowing it was likely we'd have to replace him. Covid may have extended it a year but I doubt it.

When we chose to switch from the option we had a good running back room and little else on offense for anything that wasn't the option. It wasn't just about the $. Why would any OC that had options at this level want to step into that situation? So we went cheap on the OC (in addition to elsewhere) who was familiar with the coach we just hired, but emphasized recruiting, and made a much better hire three years later when the limitations of our roster due to changing systems wouldn't be nearly as big a deal.

"so we went cheap".

TSTAN immediately headed into the storm without name brand head coach. Why did cgc need a staff on board so quickly?

Baylor was almost given the death penalty due to lack of action on sex abuse. They knew they only got one chance so they made a plan. They did not try to fix the big change immediately with expensive hires. Baylor had huge debt due to stadium and possible further revelations about coaches. They hired a quality guy from wake forest (grobe) to run program for one year while the did a nation wide search. They weathered the storm, rebranded as having a do it right program, got a good head coach and now they are spending $ .

A. yes , i hope that about half way through the year CGC is looking very competent and we can keep going.

B. But if not , I hope that tstan has found a "grobe type" to come in and help us "transition" from a money saving organization to a money spending one .

 

[JacketFan137]

It should be obvious that we hired Patenaude knowing it was likely we'd have to replace him. Covid may have extended it a year but I doubt it.

When we chose to switch from the option we had a good running back room and little else on offense for anything that wasn't the option. It wasn't just about the $. Why would any OC that had options at this level want to step into that situation? So we went cheap on the OC (in addition to elsewhere) who was familiar with the coach we just hired, but emphasized recruiting, and made a much better hire three years later when the limitations of our roster due to changing systems wouldn't be nearly as big a deal.

yeah the qb room and o line probably didn’t inspire anyone to come through that early into the collins tenure. we still lack the o line (although i have higher expectations now based on transfers) and at least we have 3 QBs who can run a more modern offense.

 

[lv20gt]

TSTAN immediately headed into the storm without name brand head coach. Why did cgc need a staff on board so quickly?

Baylor was almost given the death penalty due to lack of action on sex abuse. They knew they only got one chance so they made a plan. They did not try to fix the big change immediately with expensive hires. Baylor had huge debt due to stadium and possible further revelations about coaches. They hired a quality guy from wake forest (grobe) to run program for one year while the did a nation wide search. They weathered the storm, rebranded as having a do it right program, got a good head coach and now they are spending $ .

Near death penalty? What? They avoided both scholarship reductions and a bowl ban.

Their issue was a a completely different one. Prior to Grobe they had finished ranked 4 of the previous 5 years, and most of the issues the new coach faced would be with reputation off the field rather than issues on, although there would be a little fall out later on related to the recruiting class and transfers. The new coach wouldn't be sadled with the stigma of the scandal and the on the field product would suffer some related to recruiting issues that came with it, but not to the extent you are pretending. That is completely different than the situation at GT where the largest issue was on the field with players who didn't fit.

Also, they didn't have some grand plan. They hired Grobe as an interim because they fired Briles in late May long after that coach change cycle had already ended and then hired Rhule almost as soon as they could and at a normal time.

 

[WreckinGT]

our line was absolutely atrocious last season so expecting them to be better this year is a very low bar. our WRs were mediocre at best as well and we have the likely return of leo blackburn and other guys that looked solid in the spring game. RB is not impossible to replace and we’ve seen dontae look good in actual games. not gibbs good but he’s a great player. aside from gibbs and mason i really don’t think anyone could argue there was any talent above replacement level in this offense.

we’ve also gone from a guy who was an absolute clown to a guy who was nominated for assistant of the year and was seen as an up and coming head coaching candidate during his time at ND. we could be worse we could be the same, but to act like there’s no shot of significant improvement is just more continued negativity just for the sake of being negative

Our offensive line is worse on paper going into this year than last year. Im not sure what changed that makes you think it will be significantly improved. WR could be improved. Ill concede that one but it really does require multiple young guys who havent played much at all to excel. RB will be a downgrade. We won't be bad at the position but you can't just shrug away losing one of the best players in the country and a more than solid backup. Hopefully tight end play is improved. That could make up for the receiving production at RB we are losing. Overall though, what are you expecting? Long to come in with that much lost production and create a top 50 offense? Even Friedgen couldn't do that in one year with Hamilton at QB.

 

[BleedGoldNWhite21]

i didn’t mean in this thread specifically anyway, and a user claiming we wouldn’t win 5 games with the easiest schedule in the country is definitely a shot at him lol

I could have been talking about the talent on our team. I could have been making a joke about how bad we’ve been the last few years. The fact that you interpreted it to automatically be about Collins is more damning for Collins than any stats users conjure up.

 

[JacketFan137]

Our offensive line is worse on paper going into this year than last year. Im not sure what changed that makes you think it will be significantly improved. WR could be improved. Ill concede that one but it really does require multiple young guys who havent played much at all to excel. RB will be a downgrade. We won't be bad at the position but you can't just shrug away losing one of the best players in the country and a more than solid backup. Hopefully tight end play is improved. That could make up for the receiving production at RB we are losing. Overall though, what are you expecting? Long to come in with that much lost production and create a top 50 offense? Even Friedgen couldn't do that in one year with Hamilton at QB.

i don’t see how we are worse on the o line honestly. we had one of the worst o lines in the league and have picked up some transfers. there were massive issues on the o line in the past and i think the transfers will help fix whatever we lost. even if it’s not better, the bar is so low i don’t see how it is gonna be worse. i think there are also some scheme changes and the addition of more two te sets that could help offset some of this with some extra big bodies on the field.

ultimately either way we are both making a lot of presumptions. thankfully the one place i think we lost irreplaceable talent is probably our strongest position group anyway with a mix of proven production and talent (mcduffie and dontae), solid recruits (antonio martin) and a good depth guy in hall that has proven himself in the ACC.

 

[JacketFan137]

I could have been talking about the talent on our team. I could have been making a joke about how bad we’ve been the last few years. The fact that you interpreted it to automatically be about Collins is more damning for Collins than any stats users conjure up.

what are you even arguing at this point my guy? a conversation with a pretty ridiculous premise (can’t win 5 with the easiest schedule) and talk about coaching pay lead to talk about collins. not really a stretch. stop trying to make this something it’s not

 

[GTrob21]

Coach is a dead man walking. Our recruiting is showing that. It’s going to be brutal this upcoming year and it’s already been a tough 3 years.

 

[iceeater1969]

Near death penalty? What? They avoided both scholarship reductions and a bowl ban.

Their issue was a a completely different one. Prior to Grobe they had finished ranked 4 of the previous 5 years, and most of the issues the new coach faced would be with reputation off the field rather than issues on, although there would be a little fall out later on related to the recruiting class and transfers. The new coach wouldn't be sadled with the stigma of the scandal and the on the field product would suffer some related to recruiting issues that came with it, but not to the extent you are pretending. That is completely different than the situation at GT where the largest issue was on the field with players who didn't fit.

Also, they didn't have some grand plan. They hired Grobe as an interim because they fired Briles in late May long after that coach change cycle had already ended and then hired Rhule almost as soon as they could and at a normal time.

I was season ticket holder.
.
My son started teaching there at that time. He is still there.

my other son is head football coach in east texas.

I go with their opinion of what Baylor did.

Please consider my point - rather than something u don't agree with.
Point: We went fast and they went slow.
Now we are going slow.
Can we go get someone to replace Collins ?








.

 

[JacketFan137]

I was season ticket holder.
.
My son started teaching there at that time. He is still there.

my other son is head football coach in east texas.

I go with their opinion of what Baylor did.

Please consider my point - rather than something u don't agree with.
Point: We went fast and they went slow.
Now we are going slow.
Can we go get someone to replace Collins ?.

it’s not really a comparable situation though is what the guy was saying. we were changing our offense, not dealing with a systematic sexual crime scandal. it ended up not being as bad for baylor because baylor got away with pretty minimal punishment and was basically business as usual in very short time

i do think there is some merit to the idea of slowly morphing the offense into a modern spread, but it was a difficult edge to balance when you wanted to show recruits that we weren’t just calling the option something different while doing the same thing. it’s also much easier to say this with the benefit of hindsight because while everyone jokes and memes about “the greatest transition in college football” the transition is pretty significant and was always gonna take 2-3 years to flesh out.

the defense on the other hand was an objective failure on the coaching staff and there’s no defending what happened there option or not

 

[TooTall]

it ended up not being as bad for baylor because baylor got away with pretty minimal punishment

because it wasn't a football thing, it was a school-wide thing. Football was scapegoated by the school.

 

[JacketFan137]

because it wasn't a football thing, it was a school-wide thing. Football was scapegoated by the school.

yeah point still stands and i’m not really informed enough to argue about whether they deserved more or less. at the end of the day though their punishment ended up not being as catastrophic as many believed. to use their situation in comparison to ours to prove a point is a big stretch

 

[WreckinGT]

it’s not really a comparable situation though is what the guy was saying. we were changing our offense, not dealing with a systematic sexual crime scandal. it ended up not being as bad for baylor because baylor got away with pretty minimal punishment and was basically business as usual in very short time

i do think there is some merit to the idea of slowly morphing the offense into a modern spread, but it was a difficult edge to balance when you wanted to show recruits that we weren’t just calling the option something different while doing the same thing. it’s also much easier to say this with the benefit of hindsight because while everyone jokes and memes about “the greatest transition in college football” the transition is pretty significant and was always gonna take 2-3 years to flesh out.

the defense on the other hand was an objective failure on the coaching staff and there’s no defending what happened there option or not

Eh, Baylor had it pretty bad. Between sanctions, transfers and decommitments it was a pretty big mess. There is a reason they lost 17 of 19 games at one point. Turning that train wreck into a 11 win program in 3 years was one of the more underrated coaching jobs in history.

 

[JacketFan137]

Eh, Baylor had it pretty bad. Between sanctions, transfers and decommitments it was a pretty big mess. There is a reason they lost 17 of 19 games at one point. Turning that train wreck into a 11 win program in 3 years was one of the more underrated coaching jobs in history.

eh saying they lost 17/19 games while true is kind of slanting the information. reality is they went 7-6 -> 1-11 -> 7-6. they basically had one season of struggle and honestly their recruiting was almost entirely unaffected. their 2018 class (during the 1-11 year) was actually their best class in the last few years. the 2017 class that was to be recruited after firing the coach and getting pretty publicly dragged finished the exact same as the class the previous season from before all of the issues.

also looking at the actual penalties is kind of ridiculous and calling it a slap on the wrist isn’t even fair to wrists. it was honestly comparable to our issues from the demaryius fiasco lol

 

[BleedGoldNWhite21]

what are you even arguing at this point my guy? a conversation with a pretty ridiculous premise (can’t win 5 with the easiest schedule) and talk about coaching pay lead to talk about collins. not really a stretch. stop trying to make this something it’s not

You’re the one who brought this up. You’re making it something it’s not.

 

[iceeater1969]

eh saying they lost 17/19 games while true is kind of slanting the information. reality is they went 7-6 -> 1-11 -> 7-6. they basically had one season of struggle and honestly their recruiting was almost entirely unaffected. their 2018 class (during the 1-11 year) was actually their best class in the last few years. the 2017 class that was to be recruited after firing the coach and getting pretty publicly dragged finished the exact same as the class the previous season from before all of the issues.

also looking at the actual penalties is kind of ridiculous and calling it a slap on the wrist isn’t even fair to wrists. it was honestly comparable to our issues from the demaryius fiasco lol

Baylor before failing to control sex abuse had another athletic scandal which the failed to control.

The bb team had a player get shot to death and a coach tried to get a player to say it was stuff to make it look ok for the bb team.

With brilles the board of had several investigations.
Quickly paid brilles to no longer defend himself ( by saying Baylor had poor policies) and the fired the AD. Baylor was on thin ice due to the previous scandal where the did not put in tighter controls over coaches.

The lawyers are after the endowment.