ESPN Article on GT Offense

Josh H

Jolly Good Fellow
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Personally, I thought the most interesting part of the article was regarding the offense versus teams that average allowing 4 yards or less per carry. In those games last year, we were 1-5.

To me that isn't surprising and is one of my two primary criticisms of the offense: unlike more "balanced" teams, if you're facing a team that is very strong against the run, I don't believe we have a sophisticated enough passing attack to be able to throw the ball if our running game is shut down.

http://smartfootball.blogspot.com/2008/12/paul-johnsons-flexbone-meets-run-and.html

http://smartfootball.blogspot.com/2007/07/what-killed-run-and-shoot.html

http://understandingthetrickeration.wordpress.com/2011/08/07/understanding-the-run-shoot-go-package/

Our passing attack is based off the run and shoot, which as far as I know only one coach (June Jones) still uses the standard run and shoot at this level. The Switch concept in particular is a beast in the play action game, as the routes ran by the A-back and WR mirror their basic blocking patterns. The CB/Safety gets blocked, blocked, blocked, now all of a sudden their man is releasing and running right by them.

Look at the third link above, and look how complicated one play, "Go", is for the Run and Shoot. Versus various types of coverage (3 deep, 2 deep, man, 2 man under, etc) the reads and even the routes of the receiver change, after the snap. That's why we see so many throws (there was one in the spring game) where the QB expected a receiver to break but didn't. The receivers and the QBs have to be on the same page and read the defense identically. That takes reps and practice which Tech can't do and still be good at the ground game (which takes reps and practice).

This applies to the passing game under center, I have no idea what type of passing game we utilized out of the shotgun/pistol.
 

AE 87

Helluva Engineer
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http://smartfootball.blogspot.com/2008/12/paul-johnsons-flexbone-meets-run-and.html

http://smartfootball.blogspot.com/2007/07/what-killed-run-and-shoot.html

http://understandingthetrickeration.wordpress.com/2011/08/07/understanding-the-run-shoot-go-package/

Our passing attack is based off the run and shoot, which as far as I know only one coach (June Jones) still uses the standard run and shoot at this level. The Switch concept in particular is a beast in the play action game, as the routes ran by the A-back and WR mirror their basic blocking patterns. The CB/Safety gets blocked, blocked, blocked, now all of a sudden their man is releasing and running right by them.

Look at the third link above, and look how complicated one play, "Go", is for the Run and Shoot. Versus various types of coverage (3 deep, 2 deep, man, 2 man under, etc) the reads and even the routes of the receiver change, after the snap. That's why we see so many throws (there was one in the spring game) where the QB expected a receiver to break but didn't. The receivers and the QBs have to be on the same page and read the defense identically. That takes reps and practice which Tech can't do and still be good at the ground game (which takes reps and practice).

This applies to the passing game under center, I have no idea what type of passing game we utilized out of the shotgun/pistol.

Do you know how many reps and minutes are dedicated to our passing game in practice each week and how that compares to other offenses?
 
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2,077
I agree with most of what you just said, as do most CPJ supporters. There is an important distinction you fail to make, however. When I and others provide stats that support his offense, we're not defending his lack of defense, we're just opposing the argument that our mediocre results are the offense's fault. I and others fully expect and hold coach to field a good team, which means a good defense and special teams. That we can all agree on and is not a point of contention as you seem to think.

His first two DC hires were bad, his third looks pretty good so far. The ST's showed marked improvement as well. I firmly believe that we are on the road to at least an average D and ST's. That will go a loooooooooooooong way to improving the bottom line, the final record. Who knows, those two units may actually be good sooner than later.

Where do we go if (not predicting), but if Roof's defense this year gets gouged, gets completely skewered and manhandled by any up-tempo opponent, gives up 26 points per, and we are again 7-5 with no quality wins? If once again, the offense is credible, we get our points , but we are overall not moving up the ladder. Isn't this similar to Texas last year? Playing in the Big 12, where no one plays defense, they canned Manny Diaz. But the problem was, even with David Ash healthy, Texas couldn't score enough to keep pace with the offensive machines in the conference. That is us. The OBS the way we are playing in the last few years doesn't provide the firepower to compete with Miami, FSU, Clemson, and now Louisville, and maybe Duke. If Coach Johnson's formula is score more than they do, then it's on him to SCORE MORE THAN THEY DO.
 

dressedcheeseside

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13,671
Where do we go if (not predicting), but if Roof's defense this year gets gouged, gets completely skewered and manhandled by any up-tempo opponent, gives up 26 points per, and we are again 7-5 with no quality wins? If once again, the offense is credible, we get our points , but we are overall not moving up the ladder. Isn't this similar to Texas last year? Playing in the Big 12, where no one plays defense, they canned Manny Diaz. But the problem was, even with David Ash healthy, Texas couldn't score enough to keep pace with the offensive machines in the conference. That is us. The OBS the way we are playing in the last few years doesn't provide the firepower to compete with Miami, FSU, Clemson, and now Louisville, and maybe Duke. If Coach Johnson's formula is score more than they do, then it's on him to SCORE MORE THAN THEY DO.
a. Comparing us directly to Texas is a hoot, they're a top 10 perennial recruiting team. There fans' expectations are, and should be, well beyond ours.
b. Your opinion about the OBS is just that, an opinion. In the years we beat those teams, guess what, we scored enough points to do so.
c. It's every coach's formula to score more than their opponents. (I agree it's "on him" to do that, that's how you win.)
 

daBuzz

Ramblin' Wreck
Messages
965
Do you know how many reps and minutes are dedicated to our passing game in practice each week and how that compares to other offenses?
Unless things have changed since they closed practices, we used to run 3 segments, which is a total of 15 minutes maximum devoted to the passing game. And one of those segments was generally the QB's throwing to the WR's in various routes versus air. There used to be 1 live segment versus DBs and then, of course, during the live scrimmage section you would see the occasional pass.
 

daBuzz

Ramblin' Wreck
Messages
965
http://smartfootball.blogspot.com/2008/12/paul-johnsons-flexbone-meets-run-and.html

http://smartfootball.blogspot.com/2007/07/what-killed-run-and-shoot.html

http://understandingthetrickeration.wordpress.com/2011/08/07/understanding-the-run-shoot-go-package/

Our passing attack is based off the run and shoot, which as far as I know only one coach (June Jones) still uses the standard run and shoot at this level. The Switch concept in particular is a beast in the play action game, as the routes ran by the A-back and WR mirror their basic blocking patterns. The CB/Safety gets blocked, blocked, blocked, now all of a sudden their man is releasing and running right by them.

Look at the third link above, and look how complicated one play, "Go", is for the Run and Shoot. Versus various types of coverage (3 deep, 2 deep, man, 2 man under, etc) the reads and even the routes of the receiver change, after the snap. That's why we see so many throws (there was one in the spring game) where the QB expected a receiver to break but didn't. The receivers and the QBs have to be on the same page and read the defense identically. That takes reps and practice which Tech can't do and still be good at the ground game (which takes reps and practice).

This applies to the passing game under center, I have no idea what type of passing game we utilized out of the shotgun/pistol.

Very good post. Thank you for the links.

But for the record, I didn't say we don't have read routes. But I do know that Stephen Hill made the comment to a Jets reporter after a few days of their minicamp that he was just doing his best to learn to run the whole route tree because there were a lot of things in the basic 9-route tree that he never ran at Georgia Tech.

And the very fact that a receiver is making a read along with the QB doesn't make the play all that impressive or complicated. There are a lot of AAAAAA and AAAAA high schools in the metro Atlanta area who run read routes on most of their pass plays.

What we don't see is a QB making pre-snap reads on coverage, adjusting protection schemes and player alignment, and potentially audibling out of one play into another. That's why I don't think you'll ever see a Paul Johnson-coached QB who plays at that position in the pros. There is just too much of a learning curve. It's a tough thing for QBs coming out of even a spread option attack to learn to adjust to the pros.
 

augustabuzz

Helluva Engineer
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2,160
Very good post. Thank you for the links.
... That's why I don't think you'll ever see a Paul Johnson-coached QB who plays at that position in the pros. There is just too much of a learning curve. It's a tough thing for QBs coming out of even a spread option attack to learn to adjust to the pros.

So, you're saying that Coach Johnson will continue the Tech. tradition of never producing an NFL starting QB.
 

forensicbuzz

Helluva Engineer
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North Shore, Chicago
CPJ has said that the QBs need to work on the passing game outside practice. The intimation is that there's not enough practice time to get the reps necessary for the running game and the passing game to both be good.
 

augustabuzz

Helluva Engineer
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2,160
CPJ has said that the QBs need to work on the passing game outside practice. The intimation is that there's not enough practice time to get the reps necessary for the running game and the passing game to both be good.
And he is right for the teams that follow the rules.
 
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