ESPN Article on GT Offense

Techster

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http://espn.go.com/blog/acc/post/_/id/69990/by-the-numbers-georgia-techs-option

I think Hale is slightly misleading in concentrating the majority of the article on CPJ's offense and skimming past our defensive woes, but I think the overall arch of the story concerning our declining record against FBS opponents is something we've brought up before. He also touched on our recruiting and lack of prospects in the recent years for the NFL draft which depending on your POV is or is not an issue.

It's also interesting to note, looking at the chart, as much as some gave Vad crap for not being able to run our option game, the production in the run game against FBS opponents is very similar to the production we had in 2009.

Georgia Tech Running Game
Stat 2013 2009
Record 7-6 11-3
YPC vs. top run defenses 4.5 4.5
YPC vs. other run defenses 5.6 5.7
YPG vs. top run defenses 237.0 243.2
YPG vs. other run defenses 334.6 349.7
 

Rock

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I have seen guys on here spew stat after stat about this and that, but IMO, it comes down to W's & L's.
23-25 vs. FBS teams is no bueno.
 

Techster

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I have seen guys on here spew stat after stat about this and that, but IMO, it comes down to W's & L's.
23-25 vs. FBS teams is no bueno.

I agree.

I also thought this was interesting:

In its last four seasons, Tech is 23-25 against FBS teams. In its last four seasons under Chan Gailey (2004-07), it was 27-21 -- and that was bad enough to earn Gailey a pink slip.

I think a lot of attention gets paid to CPJ's offense (for obvious reasons), but at the end of the day he's paid to be the head coach, not just the OC. His decision to hire Wommack and Groh are his responsibility so the "if we would have had a defense" argument is invalid to me.

I don't think CPJ is a bad coach, 2008 and 2009 proved that, I just think he's been one step behind the learning curve since he's gotten to GT (hiring DCs, recruiting emphasis on GA/SE vs select national areas, relationship with media, etc.). The question is will he be able to get ahead of the head coaching curve at GT before it catches up to him?
 
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GTRX7

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I have seen guys on here spew stat after stat about this and that, but IMO, it comes down to W's & L's.
23-25 vs. FBS teams is no bueno.

Agreed, Rock. I think we all agree with that. Every single member on the board. The question is, what is to blame for the record? We all agree that CPJ is ultimately responsible. However, where there is some disagreement is whether the offense is primarily to blame or not. That is a different debate and one that is much more nuanced. The answer to that debate also impacts how you feel about the chances of the team getting the W/L record turned around.
 

dressedcheeseside

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I agree.

I also thought this was interesting:



I think a lot of attention gets paid to CPJ's offense (for obvious reasons), but at the end of the day he's paid to be the head coach, not just the OC. His decision to hire Wommack and Groh are his responsibility so the "if we would have had a defense" argument is invalid to me.

I don't think CPJ is a bad coach, 2008 and 2009 proved that, I just think he's been one step behind the learning curve since he's gotten to GT (hiring DCs, recruiting emphasis on GA/SE vs select national areas, relationship with media, etc.). The question is will he be able to get ahead of the head coaching curve at GT before it catches up to him?
I agree with most of what you just said, as do most CPJ supporters. There is an important distinction you fail to make, however. When I and others provide stats that support his offense, we're not defending his lack of defense, we're just opposing the argument that our mediocre results are the offense's fault. I and others fully expect and hold coach to field a good team, which means a good defense and special teams. That we can all agree on and is not a point of contention as you seem to think.

His first two DC hires were bad, his third looks pretty good so far. The ST's showed marked improvement as well. I firmly believe that we are on the road to at least an average D and ST's. That will go a loooooooooooooong way to improving the bottom line, the final record. Who knows, those two units may actually be good sooner than later.
 

Techster

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I agree with most of what you just said, as do most CPJ supporters. There is an important distinction you fail to make, however. When I and others provide stats that support his offense, we're not defending his lack of defense, we're just opposing the argument that our mediocre results are the offense's fault. I and others fully expect and hold coach to field a good team, which means a good defense and special teams. That we can all agree on and is not a point of contention as you seem to think.

His first two DC hires were bad, his third looks pretty good so far. The ST's showed marked improvement as well. I firmly believe that we are on the road to at least an average D and ST's. That will go a loooooooooooooong way to improving the bottom line, the final record. Who knows, those two units may actually be good sooner than later.

I wasn't saying anything was a point of contention, nor did I realize I was giving that kind of vibe.

I guess some people see what they want to see.
 

Rock

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Agreed, Rock. I think we all agree with that. Every single member on the board. The question is, what is to blame for the record? We all agree that CPJ is ultimately responsible. However, where there is some disagreement is whether the offense is primarily to blame or not. That is a different debate and one that is much more nuanced. The answer to that debate also impacts how you feel about the chances of the team getting the W/L record turned around.

I, IMO, don't think the O is the primary blame. There are problem on D & ST as well that need to be addressed. Do I have the answers? No, I'm a banker not a coach.

Dude you don't understand..

please enlighten me.
nothing speaks louder than W's & L's. near misses don't count.
 

dressedcheeseside

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I wasn't saying anything was a point of contention, nor did I realize I was giving that kind of vibe.

I guess some people see what they want to see.
Then why did you say this,
" but at the end of the day he's paid to be the head coach, not just the OC"

if it's something you know we all agree on? Again, if nobody is giving him a pass for bad D and/or ST's why even bring it up? It doesn't support your argument if we all agree on it before hand, nobody is arguing anything different.
 

Techster

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Then why did you say this,


if it's something you know we all agree on? Again, if nobody is giving him a pass for bad D and/or ST's why even bring it up? It doesn't support your argument if we all agree on it before hand, nobody is arguing anything different.


Ugh...smh.

I'm just going to take Eric's advice on this one.
 

Yoda

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I'm not one to look at stats as much as the bottom line and eyeball test. We haven't been anywhere near the offense we were under the '09 squad. I'm sorry, but '08 was tough to watch except the last two regular season games. I think we get back to more of the '09 type of offense this year, as far as explosiveness. We will be better on D and are going to win some big games this year. Mark it down.
 

dressedcheeseside

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23 - 25 vs FBS teams is no good, I agree. That is over the last 4 years. CPJ's full record vs FBS teams is 40 - 32. I don't discount the stats that don't suit my agenda.

Here's a telling bottom line stat for you guys, in the 6 years CPJ has been coach, we ended the year

won or tied for 1st in coastal 3 times,
came in, or tied for 2nd 2 times,
came in 3rd 1 time.

finished in 4th place..... 0 times
finished in 5th place..... 0 times
finished in 6th place......0 times
 

Rock

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23 - 25 vs FBS teams is no good, I agree. That is over the last 4 years. CPJ's full record vs FBS teams is 40 - 32. I don't discount the stats that don't suit my agenda.

Here's a telling bottom line stat for you guys, in the 6 years CPJ has been coach, we ended the year

won or tied for 1st in coastal 3 times,
came in, or tied for 2nd 2 times,
came in 3rd 1 time.

finished in 4th place..... 0 times
finished in 5th place..... 0 times
finished in 6th place......0 times


40-32??? are you celebrating that? really?

I have never seen a fan base so obsessed with stats, while over looking w-l.
 

dressedcheeseside

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40-32??? are you celebrating that? really?

I have never seen a fan base so obsessed with stats, while over looking w-l.
It's nothing to sneeze at. It probably puts us in the top 25% of FBS teams in that catagory. I would like a lot better.

Btw, I'm not celebrating stats. Stats are useful tools in determining areas for improvement. That is all. As it stands, D is still the area of weakness. All this discussion swirls around the belief that CPJ's 'high school' offense needs to go, which I can't fathom.
 

Rock

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It's nothing to sneeze at. It probably puts us in the top 25% of FBS teams in that catagory. I would like a lot better.

Btw, I'm not celebrating stats. Stats are useful tools in determining areas for improvement. That is all. As it stands, D is still the area of weakness. All this discussion swirls around the belief that CPJ's 'high school' offense needs to go, which I can't fathom.

I agree with the D part.
But CPJ needs to set the expectation when recruiting as well and not sell kids on throwing more..
 

dressedcheeseside

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I know but which offense would you rather have, '09 or '13?
Scoring has seen a marked increase over those years so it's not exactly as illuminating as it appears. I'd definitely take the '09 offense over the '13 one. I was just refuting the assertion that our '13 offense was nowhere near our '09 offense. That's just patently false.
 
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