ESPN Article on GT Offense

dressedcheeseside

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I agree with the D part.
But CPJ needs to set the expectation when recruiting as well and not sell kids on throwing more..
I think he honestly wanted to throw more, it just didn't work out. I think he understands the value of a true dual threat qb, but the first threat is executing the base run game. If a guy can't even do that, forget anything else.
 

Longestday

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40-32 is a FBS W-L record for Paul's 6 years at Tech. Most people want to over look the first two years if they want to over look anything.

The last 4 years is 23-25 FBS W-L record. That is the pessimist point of view, but in all the world of realities you need to evaluate trending direction of recent years over direction in distant years.

The D/ST was bad for 3 years and the O was less than good 1 year. The question is can the O pick back up and the D continue improvement?

We are no worse or no better than trends of past years with actions for improvement.

*CPJ is recruiting better
*CPJ picked what looks to be a decent improvement in Defensive coach
*We have Butker and Golden on ST
*CPJ is getting back to what made the O better in the past

I would say that CPJ is doing what it takes to change the W-L record.
 

John

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I think he honestly wanted to throw more, it just didn't work out. I think he understands the value of a true dual threat qb, but the first threat is executing the base run game. If a guy can't even do that, forget anything else.
I agree, I think he would absolutely love to have more confidence with calling passing plays.
 

GTJason

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You guys are completely missing the point here. ESPN actually posted a semi-thought out article that makes some valid points!!! Sure some of the points aren't fun to look at, but it has sparked a real (albeit not original) discussion.

Good job ESPN!
 

Techster

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*CPJ is recruiting better
*CPJ picked what looks to be a decent improvement in Defensive coach
*We have Butker and Golden on ST
*CPJ is getting back to what made the O better in the past

I would say that CPJ is doing what it takes to change the W-L record.

I think the jury is still out on that. Rankings-wise he's in GT's historical wheelhouse so don't know we can say that. The ultimate judge of whether he's recruiting better will come on the field...and that is TBD.
 

daBuzz

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Personally, I thought the most interesting part of the article was regarding the offense versus teams that average allowing 4 yards or less per carry. In those games last year, we were 1-5.

To me that isn't surprising and is one of my two primary criticisms of the offense: unlike more "balanced" teams, if you're facing a team that is very strong against the run, I don't believe we have a sophisticated enough passing attack to be able to throw the ball if our running game is shut down.
 

dressedcheeseside

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Personally, I thought the most interesting part of the article was regarding the offense versus teams that average allowing 4 yards or less per carry. In those games last year, we were 1-5.

To me that isn't surprising and is one of my two primary criticisms of the offense: unlike more "balanced" teams, if you're facing a team that is very strong against the run, I don't believe we have a sophisticated enough passing attack to be able to throw the ball if our running game is shut down.
It is troubling, I agree. Like they say in baseball, "good pitching beats good hitting." Two things that interest me in this team. 1) We're supposedly getting back to the option run game, and 2) we'll have a lot of different guys suiting up this year, let's see how they do.
 

daBuzz

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It is troubling, I agree. Like they say in baseball, "good pitching beats good hitting." Two things that interest me in this team. 1) We're supposedly getting back to the option run game, and 2) we'll have a lot of different guys suiting up this year, let's see how they do.

That's something else I find curious. The article says that we threw the ball 4 times more per game than historically under CPJ. And you posted earlier in this thread the stats supporting that last year's offense scored more than the 2009 offense:
ppg
'13: 36.7
'09: 33.8

So why is it again that going away from throwing the ball more is a good thing? Is scoring less points per game the goal? ;)
 

thwgjacket

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That's something else I find curious. The article says that we threw the ball 4 times more per game than historically under CPJ. And you posted earlier in this thread the stats supporting that last year's offense scored more than the 2009 offense:


So why is it again that going away from throwing the ball more is a good thing? Is scoring less points per game the goal? ;)
We threw the ball 4 more times a game and only had one more passing TD than we did in '09. We had 7 more INT's this year than we did in '09, more than double total. If we threw the ball less we might have had even more points.
 

GTRX7

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For me, the biggest difference in the offense over the last four years vs. the first two has been the offense's ability to close out games in the fourth quarter. We have done it some, but not nearly enough. We have been in a bunch of close games with VT, UGA, Miami, Clemson, and UNC over the last four years, but have really only seemed to close out the UNC games. If we just win 50% of those close games (as we did the first two years), I think there is a whole different perspective on CPJ.

Some of those close losses have been on the defense for sure, but even in many of those games, the offense still had its chances to make good and just has not. The patented death march has just been nowhere to be found. Fix that (along with improved D and special teams), and that is why I still have some remaining optimism that we can get the W/L thing turned around.
 

dressedcheeseside

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That's something else I find curious. The article says that we threw the ball 4 times more per game than historically under CPJ. And you posted earlier in this thread the stats supporting that last year's offense scored more than the 2009 offense:


So why is it again that going away from throwing the ball more is a good thing? Is scoring less points per game the goal? ;)
I think we scored in spite of throwing more, not because of it. Also, as I pointed out, the scoring comparison is a little misleading. Even though we scored more in '13, so did every other team on the planet.
 

dressedcheeseside

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For me, the biggest difference in the offense over the last four years vs. the first two has been the offense's ability to close out games in the fourth quarter. We have done it some, but not nearly enough. We have been in a bunch of close games with VT, UGA, Miami, Clemson, and UNC over the last four years, but have really only seemed to close out the UNC games. If we just win 50% of those close games (as we did the first two years), I think there is a whole different perspective on CPJ.

Some of those close losses have been on the defense for sure, but even in many of those games, the offense still had its chances to make good and just has not. The patented death march has just been nowhere to be found. Fix that (along with improved D and special teams), and that is why I still have some remaining optimism that we can get the W/L thing turned around.
The great thing about the '09 offense is that we had the ability to score quickly (explosive plays, Dwyer, Bay Bay) and slowly (death march, Nesbitt).
 

daBuzz

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We threw the ball 4 more times a game and only had one more passing TD than we did in '09. We had 7 more INT's this year than we did in '09, more than double total. If we threw the ball less we might have had even more points.

We also threw the ball less in 2012, 2011, 2010, 2009, and 2008. Did we score more points in those years than we did last year?

Look, I'm just yanking you guys' chain here.

But the point is worth considering. Is it perhaps BECAUSE of the threat of passing last year that we scored more points? And by going back to an even more one-dimensional game, we will make it even easier for the teams who allow 4 yards or less per carry to defend against us? Because I can say with certainty that we scored in the 1st half against UGA the way we did because of the passing game.
 

Whiskey_Clear

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And ugag was pinning their ears back to stuff our run. We made em pay for it. Is that not a semblance of balance. I don't care if we are 80-20 run throw, 50-50 run throw, or 20-80 run throw so long as we spank a D for cheating one way or the other.

CPJ is responsible for our woes and successes. That evaluation always flames into the same old pissin match over whether we run a legitimate or "high school" offens.
 

Whiskey_Clear

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Also....I'm willing to bet that the Ds that allowed less than 4yd per carry we're also highly ranked on total yds and pts per game allowed.
 

AE 87

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Imo, the fact that our rushing statistics divided by quality of defense was comparable between 2013 and 2009 was very telling. It means that CPJ was able to get comparable results from his rushing game while adjusting for his talent. It also suggests that the problems with our offense in 2013 were in the passing game.

Since someone brought up the 4th qtr, I thought I'd compare our rushing offense and defense for TD's and TD's allowed; Passing offense and defense TDs; and total offense and defense TDs in the 4th qtr.

Year/Rush/Pass/Total
(TDs) O, D; O, D; O, D
2008 7, 5; .. 2, 6; .. 9, 11
2009 13, 5; . 3, 6; . 16, 11
2010 6, 7; . 5, 4; . 11, 11
2011 8, 5; .. 1, 10; . 9, 15
2012 10, 4; . 4, 8; . 14, 12
2013 10, 7; . 4, 3; . 14, 10

I know that this doesn't say anything about competition, but this quick and dirty comparison doesn't show an obvious problem
 

AE 87

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Personally, I thought the most interesting part of the article was regarding the offense versus teams that average allowing 4 yards or less per carry. In those games last year, we were 1-5.

To me that isn't surprising and is one of my two primary criticisms of the offense: unlike more "balanced" teams, if you're facing a team that is very strong against the run, I don't believe we have a sophisticated enough passing attack to be able to throw the ball if our running game is shut down.

In my opinion, the problem is not with our scheme but our players/execution in 2013.
 

flounder

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You guys are completely missing the point here. ESPN actually posted a semi-thought out article that makes some valid points!!! Sure some of the points aren't fun to look at, but it has sparked a real (albeit not original) discussion.

Good job ESPN!

Who would do better as a QB in our offense: Tebow or Jeremy Lin?
 

thwgjacket

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We also threw the ball less in 2012, 2011, 2010, 2009, and 2008. Did we score more points in those years than we did last year?

Look, I'm just yanking you guys' chain here.

But the point is worth considering. Is it perhaps BECAUSE of the threat of passing last year that we scored more points? And by going back to an even more one-dimensional game, we will make it even easier for the teams who allow 4 yards or less per carry to defend against us? Because I can say with certainty that we scored in the 1st half against UGA the way we did because of the passing game.
I'm not going back and doing all the math but in 2012 we scored 34 points a game against FBS competition vs. 30 points a game in 2013. I think the average points a game going up had more to do with us playing 2 FCS schools than throwing it more.
 
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