Does it say anything

[alagold]

The good news is that we get a bunch of talent THIS yr that will make us competitive .The bad news-and it is bad--we are left next yr with little real talent-.A lot of hope and maybes. Last place possible.Unless of course we get ANOTHER bunch of transfers,

 

[GTNavyNuke]

The good news is that we get a bunch of talent THIS yr that will make us competitive .The bad news-and it is bad--we are left next yr with little real talent-.A lot of hope and maybes. Last place possible.Unless of course we get ANOTHER bunch of transfers,

I agree that if Gregory doesn't play non-Srs we are in trouble next year. But a lot of minutes were to non-Srs last night. http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/boxscore?gameId=400827780

Of course, if Gregory goes to the CPJ-play-only-JT mode, we are screwed.

 

[dtm1997]

The good news is that we get a bunch of talent THIS yr that will make us competitive .The bad news-and it is bad--we are left next yr with little real talent-.A lot of hope and maybes. Last place possible.Unless of course we get ANOTHER bunch of transfers,

Making the arbitrary assumption that our current non-Srs & our incoming recruits are talentless is always the safe assumption to make.

 

[D-man44]

The good news is that we get a bunch of talent THIS yr that will make us competitive .The bad news-and it is bad--we are left next yr with little real talent-.A lot of hope and maybes. Last place possible.Unless of course we get ANOTHER bunch of transfers,

I mean Romello White is a really good player and Tadric will have another year under his belt

 

[dtm1997]

I mean Romello White is a really good player and Tadric will have another year under his belt

And Josh Okogie is expected to compete for Mr. Basketball in Georgia.

And Ben Lammers has shown some really nifty play so far this year ahead of being a starter next year.

And Heath & Jorgy appear capable of producing on a combined basis at the PG position (the concept you need a single high level PG producer is misinformed)

And we're redshirting AD & Ogbonda to get them ready to produce.

And we still have 2 more slots to fill.

@alagold we may indeed take a step back after this year because of a greater balance of youth, but your comments are really shallow in both fact & assumption.

 

[MWBATL]

My only comments about transfers........

1. if we can get them in so easily in basketball, why can't we in football (referring here to JC transfers, and maybe that's apples and oranges, but a lot of the current Ball transfers certainly are not form technical schools)
2. my only downside comment is that I find it less interesting in following a team when many of its key players are "one and done". Honestly, for me this would be true if I were a Kentucky fan as well (and I hate the Kentucky model beyond words as an abomination of the concept of student-athlete). So, while I will certainly root for this team and may attend some game slater in the year if they continue to perform well, it will be hard for me to get excited about the program when its best players are just passing through. I will cite Miami as an example of doing it right with its current recruiting and player development.

 

[dtm1997]

@MWBATL The Hurricanes starting back court are both transfers, along with a 3rd overall right now. The Hurricanes have taken in plenty of transfers in recent years, albeit earlier in their careers. Miami has a better coach than us & about 90% of the rest of college basketball.

I don't dispute that we're using 1-year transfers to plug gaps, but Chuck Mitchell, Nick Jacobs, Josh Heath, 3 starters who are transfers, will have been in residence for 2 or more years at GT. I'd also say that the staff is trying to right the ship & get HS recruiting back on track over the next couple of large classes.

Not sure which JuCo kids you're referring to regarding hoops, although we looked at a bunch this past recruiting cycle.

Also, please don't use Kentucky as the example. Use dook, as that's what they're doing now & I'd guess we all hate them more.

PS - Calipari would shred you on calling his kids abomination of student-athletes. Go look at his track record of academic performance. They may have easier major opptys than us, but they're required to maintain a good academic standing. Heck, Kantucky's Alex Poythress is a starter, a senior, graduated in 3 years, and was heavily recruited & interested in GT.

 

[GTNavyNuke]

@MWBATL........
PS - Calipari would shred you on calling his kids abomination of student-athletes. Go look at his track record of academic performance. They may have easier major opptys than us, but they're required to maintain a good academic standing. Heck, Kantucky's Alex Poythress is a starter, a senior, graduated in 3 years, and was heavily recruited & interested in GT.

Actually, do you even have to pass a single class to be a one & done and maintain standing for one semester? Second year would be tough. Plus since grades are personal information, there should be no official information is a student doesn't enroll for a third semester / on academic probation?

I don't doubt the kids who expect to be there four / five years maintain their grades. But they aren't the "abomination".

Like @MWBATL , I'll root for our team regardless since they chose GT. But would be more emotionally invested if I got to watch them develop.

 

[dtm1997]

@GTNavyNuke The system is broken and we can thank the NBA for that by forcing kids to go to school for a year. I do think they're figuring out a long-term solution as the D-League moves more & more to a true minor league, which will take in straight from HS kids and then maybe you create a baseball-like 2-year college reqmt if you don't try to go pro.

It's fair to want to see these kids develop because it does engender an emotional relationship, but what does that mean?

Should we diminish the adoration that Kenny Anderson gets to this day because he left after 2 years? Does a 2nd year mean he developed?

Do you look down upon a kid because he's chasing an oppty to make lifechanging money for him & his family?

If a kid was an engineering genius and got offered a great job without graduating, how would anyone feel about that? Let's downplay Chris Klaus' contributions as one of GT's biggest dropouts.

What about a guy like James Forrest who torpedoed potential NBA earnings by not leaving early when he should have?

Do we campaign to Brian Gregory to stop recruiting Wendell Carter, 2017's #1 HS player from Pace Academy, who's assuredly a 1 & done, but also considering Harvard because he loves math?

I'd like to see a solid foundation of multi-year players that we can emotionally invest in, but whether it's elite HS talent or grad transfers, you can't not bring in talent if you think they can be difference makers.

 

[alagold]

And Josh Okogie is expected to compete for Mr. Basketball in Georgia.

And Ben Lammers has shown some really nifty play so far this year ahead of being a starter next year.

And Heath & Jorgy appear capable of producing on a combined basis at the PG position (the concept you need a single high level PG producer is misinformed)

And we're redshirting AD & Ogbonda to get them ready to produce.

And we still have 2 more slots to fill.

@alagold we may indeed take a step back after this year because of a greater balance of youth, but your comments are really shallow in both fact & assumption.

97,
"Shallow in fact and assumption?" huh?--you choose your insults rather easily--I wouldn't have said it if I didn't think its the truth--I've got a $1000 saying that this yrs record will be better than next yrs record
Can you back up your insult.?

 

[dtm1997]

97,
"Shallow in fact and assumption?" huh?--you choose your insults rather easily--I wouldn't have said it if I didn't think its the truth--I've got a $1000 saying that this yrs record will be better than next yrs record
Can you back up your insult.?

The idea of trying to goad me in to a $1000 bet that next year will be worse is clownery. It's not a difficult step to take when we'll be vastly younger & inexperienced.

I'm calling you out for putting forth the statement that next year's squad will be effectively talentless. Factually incorrect and you come off as a someone who hasn't watched a game this season.

Will we take a step back in 2016 due to 5 or more rotation players being Soph or less? Probably. Will we have a core group of players who are high potential for a strong 2017 season? Very possible.

Do some homework & watch some games before you make some sweeping assumption about how we'll have little real talent and insult our student-athletes.

BTW, thanks for identifying yourself to me as someone who ****s on our student-athletes.

 

[GTNavyNuke]

..........
I'd like to see a solid foundation of multi-year players that we can emotionally invest in, but whether it's elite HS talent or grad transfers, you [I]can't not [/I]bring in talent if you think they can be difference makers.

I agree 100%. (edit note: I can't get rid of the underline)

The baseball model of minor league or 3 years in college / 21 years old is another model. But that model leads to most of the best players not coming to the college game. ([URL]https://gtswarm.com/threads/2015-mlb-draft-8-10-june.6859/#post-153143[/URL] ) So we never see them play but we do get to see them develop for at least 3 (or 2 if older) years. The bonuses are the biggest for the HS players relative to potential. Then as Jrs in the draft and as Srs its usually pretty dismal.

And college football we get to see them develop for at least 3 years. This model is justified for the contact most players will see and the need to continue to physically grow for that game to be able to take the physical impact. As a fan, this is probably the best model. And as a player who is more likely to get a career ending injury and wants to maximize their financial reward, the worst.

Getting back to basketball, I think the baseball model would be truer to the student-athlete concept. It would also be as good or better for the players. And would probably level the playing field a bit.

Of course, I expect no changes unless the NBA thinks changing the model will make them more money. This way, the best players get put into the "minor" leagues to demonstrate their talent and add to the excitement of the draft. This probably makes sense considering the fewer number of NBA players compared to NFL or MLB.

 

[GTNavyNuke]

..........
I'd like to see a solid foundation of multi-year players that we can emotionally invest in, but whether it's elite HS talent or grad transfers, you [I]can't not [/I]bring in talent if you think they can be difference makers.

I agree 100%.

The baseball model of minor league or 3 years in college / 21 years old is another model. But that model leads to most of the best players not coming to the college game. ([URL]https://gtswarm.com/threads/2015-mlb-draft-8-10-june.6859/#post-153143[/URL] ) So we never see them play but we do get to see them develop for at least 3 (or 2 if older) years. The bonuses are the biggest for the HS players relative to potential. Then as Jrs in the draft and as Srs its usually pretty dismal.

And college football we get to see them develop for at least 3 years. This model is justified for the contact most players will see and the need to continue to physically grow for that game to be able to take the physical impact. As a fan, this is probably the best model. And as a player who is more likely to get a career ending injury and wants to maximize their financial reward, the worst.

Getting back to basketball, I think the baseball model would be truer to the student-athlete concept. It would also be as good or better for the players. And would probably level the playing field a bit.

Of course, I expect no changes unless the NBA thinks changing the model will make them more money. This way, the best players get put into the "minor" leagues to demonstrate their talent and add to the excitement of the draft. This probably makes sense considering the fewer number of NBA players compared to NFL or MLB.

 

[MWBATL]

@GTNavyNuke The system is broken and we can thank the NBA for that by forcing kids to go to school for a year. I do think they're figuring out a long-term solution as the D-League moves more & more to a true minor league, which will take in straight from HS kids and then maybe you create a baseball-like 2-year college reqmt if you don't try to go pro.

It's fair to want to see these kids develop because it does engender an emotional relationship, but what does that mean?

Should we diminish the adoration that Kenny Anderson gets to this day because he left after 2 years? Does a 2nd year mean he developed?

Do you look down upon a kid because he's chasing an oppty to make lifechanging money for him & his family?

If a kid was an engineering genius and got offered a great job without graduating, how would anyone feel about that? Let's downplay Chris Klaus' contributions as one of GT's biggest dropouts.

What about a guy like James Forrest who torpedoed potential NBA earnings by not leaving early when he should have?

Do we campaign to Brian Gregory to stop recruiting Wendell Carter, 2017's #1 HS player from Pace Academy, who's assuredly a 1 & done, but also considering Harvard because he loves math?

I'd like to see a solid foundation of multi-year players that we can emotionally invest in, but whether it's elite HS talent or grad transfers, you can't not bring in talent if you think they can be difference makers.

Your points are all very valid and I don't think any of us have said that we want GT to be disadvantaged in today's recruiting environment. I also definitely do NOT resent a kid who is trying to better their situation, whether it be choosing to forego their final season of eligibility to go work in the corporate world, or go pro, or (even) transfer out to another program where they believe they can benefit. We all have a responsibility to do what is best for ourselves and our loved ones.....

My points (apparently poorly made) were that I would be more interested in the team if I felt like we were building a program with a "better" (my judgement, of course) mix of one and done players (of any age) and 3 or 5 year players. I find even today I watch much more carefully the play of Lammers, for example, no matter how good Jacobs et al are. I am not sure I would call it an emotional attachment, but I am more forgiving with guys who I feel are still learning and will pay dividends down the road, than with guys who are one and done. Maybe that's just me....

My only other comment about transfers and the JUCO business was to do with football...along the lines of I have always heard we could not get most transfers, especially JUCO transfers, not GT because of the academic credits issue. Yet we seem to have little or no trouble in basketball. I was simply wondering why the difference between the two sports.

 

[alagold]

The idea of trying to goad me in to a $1000 bet that next year will be worse is clownery. It's not a difficult step to take when we'll be vastly younger & inexperienced.

I'm calling you out for putting forth the statement that next year's squad will be effectively talentless. Factually incorrect and you come off as a someone who hasn't watched a game this season.

Will we take a step back in 2016 due to 5 or more rotation players being Soph or less? Probably. Will we have a core group of players who are high potential for a strong 2017 season? Very possible.

Do some homework & watch some games before you make some sweeping assumption about how we'll have little real talent and insult our student-athletes.

BTW, thanks for identifying yourself to me as someone who ****s on our student-athletes.

I figured that you would retreat and back off your empty words.I'm tired of being insulted by people like you that can't/won't back up their cheap talk.
btw- effectively talentless means/ translates, even for you ,into WINNING LESS -which is the bottom line.
What a joke saying I haven't seen us play.I've not only seen us play every game but I also see OTHER teams which tells me what we compete against.The team next yr will struggle to compete! I've got money to back up my statement all you have is empty talk.

 

[Peacone36]

I figured that you would retreat and back off your empty words.I'm tired of being insulted by people like you that can't/won't back up their cheap talk.
btw- effectively talentless means/ translates, even for you ,into WINNING LESS -which is the bottom line.
What a joke saying I haven't seen us play.I've not only seen us play every game but I also see OTHER teams which tells me what we compete against.The team next yr will struggle to compete! I've got money to back up my statement all you have is empty talk.

No one would take that bet. It's quite obvious we lose a lot at the end of this season. Point being you shouldn't attack the SA's that represent the school. The fault ultimately lies with the person who assembled the team and the administration that hired him, gave him an extension, and in the end, made him unfireable

 

[LibertyTurns]

We've played 4 games.

3 times they looked like a well coached basketball team.

Last game they looked well coached for about 5 mins.

Can't say I'm happy but it's progress over last year. We're not changing the coach after this year. We'll see what happens. Hopefully it's a good move. If not, we're in for a rocky 3-4 more years.

In the interim, those of us who don't have enough $$ to get a change we want had either accept what we have or take a hiatus until circumstances change.

I'm going to hang in there despite my better judgment. Go Jackets!

 

[dtm1997]

@GTNavyNuke - I think a 2-year baseball model may make sense and agree it would level the playing field, because the best teams would still get the best players, but they'd be coming from further back in the talent pool where gradation between talent thins. You also get the kids more serious about school. The reality is that 18yo's can enter the D-League today if they're willing to accept a lifestyle that's probably lesser than their AAU days.

@MWBATL - I can't argue with your point about wanting to be more invested in the players and see them progress (i.e. - Daniel Miller). Apologies if I misinterpreted your comments. To your JuCo comment, I know we looked at a few JuCo hoops recruits last Spring, but I don't know why we're able to look at them compared to JuCo football recruits. My only deduction is that it's a school by school situation and JuCos don't necessarily excel at both sports. I think we'd look at a JuCo football recruit if qualified, Kenderious Whitehead being an example.

@LibertyTurns - I agree there.

 

[lv20gt]

It says the same thing everything has said since we hired gregory. That he's a terrible coach.

 

[RamblinRed]

Not going to rehash the CBG stuff as we have said all that needs to be said.

on transfers it is a significant part of college recruiting and the majority of college coaches now hold at least 1 scholly for the spring to see who shakes loose.
Miami, who is arguably the best team in the conference right now, is starting 3 transfers. Now all of them were kids that will be there for multiple years - which is preferable, but the majority of the ACC started at least 1 transfer last season and I expect the same this year.