Do you believe m bob or not about our options

[TheSilasSonRising]

You are part of the problem.

You are the lead Nancy and a whiner.

 

[Peacone36]

I'm a slave to the facts and have yet to wrong at any point regarding CBGs time at GT. I like to win baby. I don't accept losing as being a positive decision. If you aren't trying to win, you're trying to lose.

 

[TheSilasSonRising]

@TheSilasSonRising,

Your commentary is a generally weak with little foundation and here's why.

1. Short of those who didn't like the hire from the get go, I doubt there are many who didn't give BG a complete & utter mulligan for year 1. The no home court argument Year 1 has come & gone. Nobody faults him for that year's record and quite frankly, it was a selling tool on the recruiting trail that kids had a new arena to look forward to. I'd also point out that at the time, it was spun that the kids would get to play in an NBA arena.
2. After 3 years and now having ALL HIS GUYS, he's shown an inability to consistently recruit at a high level (something many were concerned about day one) and convey winning in-game/end-of-game tactics. I will give BG 100% credit for the great job he's done in righting the ship academically, but if that's the #1 thing to judge him on, we may as well downsize to a single revenue sport.
3. The idea we have no money is a misnomer. The GTAA & the GT Foundation do in fact have money. However, Bobinski was mandated to raise additional funds for buyout purposes and not use the existing funds on hand. In going to the same old boosters and not developing relationships with new boosters, they had no interest in bailing him out.
4. Throwing in mention of Javaris Crittenton is a diversion & foolish at that. He was a good kid by all accounts while at GT and fell in with the wrong crowd once in the NBA. It's actually a pretty sad story - http://www.foxsports.com/nba/story/2014/06/30/javaris-crittenton
5. While you bring up Critt, you fail to mention BG's not all together great track record of working with those having potential character issues. I wish Solomon Poole would've worked out and I suspect there's a story there that we'll never know, but he had suspension & attitude issues in High School, taking him caused us to miss on both Monte Morris (arguably best college PG in the nation) & Tim Quarterman (very good combo guard at LSU that was Poole's AAU teammate & didn't want to play with him). Then let's talk about London Warren, BG's former player who was driving Glen Rice Jr's car drunk while a gun went off in Midtown Atlanta. I won't even bother with a couple of other incidents that are well-known.
6. There have been few if any comments about not supporting our student-athletes. Most people want to see them succeed regardless of who's in the chair.
7. BG is gonna be in that chair for now. Time for him to get in the kitchen and start whipping up some pudding on the recruiting trail & the offensive game plan. It's been made very public what his success factors are going forward and the short leash he's on. Final chance to prove something and, in the process, the majority of us who think he's in over his head. I'd also note that even the biggest BG detractors have nothing personal against him, think he's a good dude, and want to see him succeed, because that means GT is succeeding. Winning cures everything.
8. Finally, up until recently, I don't really feel like you've been much part of the hoops conversation on this board. Many new additions have cropped up during this period quite frankly, but while I respect your constitutional right to retort to those down on the program and our head coach, for you to come in to this forum and start lambasting the broader population undermines your credibility, of which you have little to begin with as part of the board's hoops conversation. It wouldn't be impossible to frame up your comments against the general consensus in a more respectful manner, as perhaps someone will consider listening to you.

I could've responded in a nasty manner with expletives and I really thought about doing so. Instead, I just decided to undermine your various points of view with real arguments. Either join the discussion with respect or see yourself left out of the discussion as people start hitting the ignore button. The choice is yours.

Best regards,

A 16-year season ticket holder who plans to renew his season tickets again next year and has never once stopped supporting our student-athletes, even when their perimeter defense has been shaky, they've been turnover prone, or they've taken an ill-advised shot, because their strong efforts have earned my resolute respect.

Thanks for the lengthy response and regards.

You probably did not wish to respond to my first item.

So you are, in so many words, agreeing with me that money (the actual amount) is not a problem. I am saying that many, many fans are basically saying MBob was lying about that. I don't think they should get away with it.

"Few if any comments about not supporting our Student Athletes"? People saying they will stay home and all the other things said about CBG will, in fact, communicate to our S/As an attitude of non support. That is reality and you know it, I believe. It has been stated innumerable times on the boards.

I do not think it is in any way relevant the number of posts someone has made about a subject. Unless the owner of this site decrees someone must make a certain number of posts about a subject to be as valid as anyone else's. But until that time, so what as to the number of posts made.

Thanks for being a 16 year season ticket holder. We have been since 1971. I was one of the people in attendance when we had 713 people there (whatever the number was). Could not even get other family members to go with me. Again, so what? That does not mean my posts, or yours, or anyone else's has more or less validity.

 

[dtm1997]

Thanks for the lengthy response and regards.

You probably did not wish to respond to my first item.

So you are, in so many words, agreeing with me that money (the actual amount) is not a problem. I am saying that many, many fans are basically saying MBob was lying about that. I don't think they should get away with it.

"Few if any comments about not supporting our Student Athletes"? People saying they will stay home and all the other things said about CBG will, in fact, communicate to our S/As an attitude of non support. That is reality and you know it, I believe. It has been stated innumerable times on the boards.

I do not think it is in any way relevant the number of posts someone has made about a subject. Unless the owner of this site decrees someone must make a certain number of posts about a subject to be as valid as anyone else's. But until that time, so what as to the number of posts made.

Thanks for being a 16 year season ticket holder. We have been since 1971. I was one of the people in attendance when we had 713 people there (whatever the number was). Could not even get other family members to go with me. Again, so what? That does not mean my posts, or yours, or anyone else's has more or less validity.

I can't disagree with you that we don't have the cash on hand. The financial statements of the GTAA & GT Foundation would prove me wrong every time. That said, MBob is hanging his hat on that evidence and leaving out the part whether he had authorization to use those funds for the purpose of a buyout. It's the classic case of not saying more than you have to, only everybody knows they weren't letting him use cash on hand to fund a buyout. He had to go out hat in hand and he failed, probably due to the poor negotiation of the buyout provisions in BG's extension. Based on his comments to the press, I believe there's a high degree of spin control and it's not entirely truthful.

There's a difference between making the financial decision to continue investing in GT hoops season tickets and supporting our student-athletes. Support is defined in many different ways and, generally speaking, I believe fans will root for the student-athletes to succeed on the court & off of it. It doesn't mean they have to provide financial support, which, unless tickets & refreshments are free, this constitutes or the investment of precious time. I don't personally agree with this approach, because in college athletics, you sometimes need to throw more money at a problem for it to go away, but I certainly understand each person making an individual decision.

I don't think post count is the relevant factor in declaring your commentary more or less valid. What I do think is relevant is that you haven't been particularly involved with this forum's hoops discussion and the first time you're chiming in on the discussion in a big way, your statement is to start lambasting people with derogatory terms instead of presenting a cogent, respectful argument for why they're statements are wrong. Nobody knows who you are or why we should consider your point of view and you charge in disrespectfully. That's what will render your comments invalid and quite frankly closer to being out of compliance with the rules set forth by the site's owners than anything (i.e. - not saying you made a personal attack, but I'd suggest you be mindful of it happening).

I'd like to welcome you, as well as anyone & everyone, that wants to have a conversation about Georgia Tech hoops. The dedicated hoops forum here is something that makes the conversation strong here.

Things get heated on a message board in our disagreements. I get that. That doesn't mean anyone should be launching derogatory remarks.

 

[RamblinRed]

I've said it more than once and will happily say it again. MBob is lying about having the money and it not being a part of the decision (or at least really parsing his words). He is doing what an AD does. No AD will say money is an issue in coaching decisions.

DRad said money wasn't an issue in the Gregory hire- that was a lie to.

MBob wanted to replace Gregory and went to multiple donors to ask for money to pay off both buyouts since he was told that he could not use any operating funds to take care of the buyouts ($6m total - $2.4 for Gregory and $3.6 for Hewitt). He was unable to raise enough money so he did not fire Gregory.
GT has plenty of money if it wants to use it for this purpose but it does not want to. It could transfer money from the foundation if it wanted to but that will never happen and i'm fine with that.

I'll also continue to root for Gregory and the players to win every game. I'd rather he go 39-0 than have to replace him. I don't currently have season tickets - gave them up during the later Hewitt years and haven't gone in for them since - though I do attend some games every season. I won't ever root for GT to lose a game - there's no way I could ever do it.

 

[MidtownJacket]

@DTM appreciate the conversation with you and Peacone and company - even though we are of opposite minds on the coaching situation I find you all's thoughts worth considering.

I still think CBG has a chance to turn things around, and frankly believe we are poised to have a better season next year than many of the esteemed board members here do - but I can understand the skepticism. At the end of the day we haven't been good on Offense, and our Defense (while typically pretty good) hasn't been enough to win the close ones. My Hope/Belief/Hope is that we will see better guard play (based on the back court JH, TJ being healthy and understanding the system) + continued effort on Defense + one impact player (be it a transfer or JB or someone else). With that combination I think we are a 18 or 19 win team.

If on top of all that we get a shooter from transfer/recruting I think it could bump up another couple games.

I just don't think we are as far off in the Defense/Rebounding scheme as some think and with an improved look to our Offense we could win more than an even balance of those close games from this year.

 

[AE 87]

@DTM appreciate the conversation with you and Peacone and company - even though we are of opposite minds on the coaching situation I find you all's thoughts worth considering.

I still think CBG has a chance to turn things around, and frankly believe we are poised to have a better season next year than many of the esteemed board members here do - but I can understand the skepticism. At the end of the day we haven't been good on Offense, and our Defense (while typically pretty good) hasn't been enough to win the close ones. My Hope/Belief/Hope is that we will see better guard play (based on the back court JH, TJ being healthy and understanding the system) + continued effort on Defense + one impact player (be it a transfer or JB or someone else). With that combination I think we are a 18 or 19 win team.

If on top of all that we get a shooter from transfer/recruting I think it could bump up another couple games.

I just don't think we are as far off in the Defense/Rebounding scheme as some think and with an improved look to our Offense we could win more than an even balance of those close games from this year.

Our D has not been "typically pretty good" in my opinion, but it could be that strength of schedule has made us appear worse than we are.

 

[RamblinRed]

Statistically the defense was very good this year and has been pretty to very good every year under Gregory.
The AdjD points per possession for the last 4 years are

2015 94.6 (36th nationally)
2014 99.8 (70th)
2013 93.5 (39th)
2012 98.0 (105th)

 

[AE 87]

Statistically the defense was very good this year and has been pretty to very good every year under Gregory.
The AdjD points per possession for the last 4 years are

2015 94.6 (36th nationally)
2014 99.8 (70th)
2013 93.5 (39th)
2012 98.0 (105th)

Thanks! BTW, where do you find adjusted ppp? Fwiw, I don't consider top 40 very good or top 100 pretty good. I know there are more teams competing in D1 Basketball, but I think even if you use a relatively generous top 10%--rather than, say, top 5%--to reckon "very good," 36th and 39th fall outside of that. That being said, I also find myself uncomfortable even saying we're pretty good when we're 70th or 105th.

 

[RamblinRed]

There are 351 teams in Div 1 basketball - top 10% would be 35.

Top 25 would be great in my book. Top 50 is very good. Top 75 pretty good, Top 100 solid, below that not so much.

Trust me, i'll say where I think we are not good, but i'll give credit where it is good.
KenPom has the AdjD PPP numbers.
FWIW, UVA is #1 nationally, L'ville #6, Syracuse #26, UNC #42 and Clemson #44. So 4th in ACC.

We may really stink at a couple things - but this team did defend (defense isn't always pretty which is sort of why you have to go back to the stats - defense is sort of inherently ugly) and rebound.
The problem was the other side of the ball where we were 226th nationally (1.00 adjO ppp). FWIW, Duke and ND were 2nd and 3rd respectively nationally on offense. GT's mark was worst in the ACC - Clemson was 14th at 190th nationally (1.018). GT was one of the 10 worst in this metric among power conference teams in the country.

 

[collegeballfan]

Thanks for the lengthy response and regards.

You probably did not wish to respond to my first item.

So you are, in so many words, agreeing with me that money (the actual amount) is not a problem. I am saying that many, many fans are basically saying MBob was lying about that. I don't think they should get away with it.

"Few if any comments about not supporting our Student Athletes"? People saying they will stay home and all the other things said about CBG will, in fact, communicate to our S/As an attitude of non support. That is reality and you know it, I believe. It has been stated innumerable times on the boards.

I do not think it is in any way relevant the number of posts someone has made about a subject. Unless the owner of this site decrees someone must make a certain number of posts about a subject to be as valid as anyone else's. But until that time, so what as to the number of posts made.

Thanks for being a 16 year season ticket holder. We have been since 1971. I was one of the people in attendance when we had 713 people there (whatever the number was). Could not even get other family members to go with me. Again, so what? That does not mean my posts, or yours, or anyone else's has more or less validity.

The number you throw out - 73 - is not that inaccurate. You could sit almost anywhere you wanted. Walk up, buy tickets and sit in prime seats.

 

[collegeballfan]

Dtm 1997 “…your statement is to start lambasting people with derogatory terms…”

I concur. But then we have this.

“I've said it more than once and will happily say it again. MBob is lying…”

“DRad said money wasn't an issue in the Gregory hire- that was a lie to.”

For the last month this site has stated to read like a UGA or UT site.

 

[dtm1997]

@MidtownJacket I think we have the talent on hand today (and hoping it sticks around) to win more games in the ACC. I had us pegged for 17-18 wins this year and, in falling short of that mark & watching all of the games, it wasn't a lack of effort or talent I saw, it was ineffective coaching.

We could be poised for a better season next year and I'll certainly support these kids, for sure. While I won't be rooting against BG, I'm gonna need some results before he regains my confidence. I think it's fair to see some results before he regains my support. Let's start this summer on the recruiting trail.

 

[dtm1997]

Dtm 1997 “…your statement is to start lambasting people with derogatory terms…”

I concur. But then we have this.

“I've said it more than once and will happily say it again. MBob is lying…”

“DRad said money wasn't an issue in the Gregory hire- that was a lie to.”

For the last month this site has stated to read like a UGA or UT site.

Those statements about Bobinski & DRad are statements about their action. Not calling them names.

Also, can you blame people for having a fiery reaction over the situation? Bobinski was among the first to start using the quote "snatch defeat from the jaws of victory". Then, post-season, we see where those accountable leave us.

While I didn't say those words about those ADs, I've gotta say, I don't disagree. I've long believed DRad treated hoops as a second hand citizen and if money wasn't an issue when BG was hired, we'd have looked at better coaches, which there's no indication of.

Additionally, if MBob had free reign to buy out BG for $2.4MM, then why didn't he? So fewer people purchase hoops tickets and drive revenue lower or for the sake of lower donations to A/T fund because people are disgruntled about hoops? Instead of dealing with the results of a team the head coach said this was his best team yet in his 4 years here, he hung his hat on a variety of cop-outs he had in his back pocket about no arena & academics, espousing no more patience for a lack of progress.

I'd like to keep everything civil on this board, but there's certainly a difference between calling forum members derogatory names and stating that spin control by the GTAA is a falsehood.

PS - I didn't actually say those things about the ADs until now, but I do believe both were less than truthful.

 

[orientalnc]

I just posted a piece on From The Rumble Seat regarding CBG. It's time to cool it. I disagreed with Bobinski, but it's his job, not mine, that's at stake. I plan to let him do it. Calling someone a liar is not cool.

http://www.fromtherumbleseat.com/2015/3/19/8260167/is-it-time-to-let-the-fire-go-out

 

[lv20gt]

Oh look more, nice guy, close games, graduates players nonsense.

What about the players that didn't walk away with a degree? Rice, Royal, Poole, Poole, Carter? Guess they don't count.
What about the DUIs? What about the violations that happened within a month of getting hired? Poor grades is unacceptable. Endangering the lives of people on the roads. No problem.
What about the blow out losses, the long stretches in nearly every game of complete offensive incompetence? It ain't bad luck when it happens every time.
What about the people that DON'T like gregory? Yes, contrary to the oft repeated mantra, such people do exist, including more than one highschool coach.

I held my tongue the past year when I thought the poor play and worse record would speak loud enough. Obviously I was wrong, and the past week has shown that the administration is every bit as incompetent as the coaching staff and on top of that is willing to let people believe a blatantly false proposition about an extension to avoid the criticism that would have come with the actual. So no, I'm not going to just shut up and blindingly support a failure. Nor am I going to spin everything to try and make things seem like they aren't the disaster that they are.

 

[orientalnc]

Oh look more, nice guy, close games, graduates players nonsense.

What about the players that didn't walk away with a degree? Rice, Royal, Poole, Poole, Carter? Guess they don't count.
What about the DUIs? What about the violations that happened within a month of getting hired? Poor grades is unacceptable. Endangering the lives of people on the roads. No problem.
What about the blow out losses, the long stretches in nearly every game of complete offensive incompetence? It ain't bad luck when it happens every time.
What about the people that DON'T like gregory? Yes, contrary to the oft repeated mantra, such people do exist, including more than one highschool coach.

I held my tongue the past year when I thought the poor play and worse record would speak loud enough. Obviously I was wrong, and the past week has shown that the administration is every bit as incompetent as the coaching staff and on top of that is willing to let people believe a blatantly false proposition about an extension to avoid the criticism that would have come with the actual. So no, I'm not going to just shut up and blindingly support a failure. Nor am I going to spin everything to try and make things seem like they aren't the disaster that they are.

I don't disagree with about the reasons to fire Gregory. But they do not matter now. You & I are not responsible for that decision. I will not wish for bad things to happen to GT basketball and that is what I have to hope for with regard to getting rid of Gregory. I would rather he be successful. In the lead up to the Bobinski meeting with CBG, I was hoping he would be gone. That said, I think there is a reasonable argument for keeping him.

 

[RamblinRed]

My final thoughts on the conversation and this last week.
Honestly, I have no issues with Gregory personally. He is a good person, a good coach. I have said that in the past and defended him. In my opinion he is not a good enough coach to succeed in the ACC. That's hardly the most horrible thing in the world.

I stand by my comments about MBob, i'm much more upset with him, and I was a proponent of his hire. I stand by my statement - it is not an opinion, it is a factual statement. But all AD's do that at some point - it is basically part of their job, so in that way its not that huge a deal. I'm just calling a spade a spade.

I will reiterate what I said earlier - I hope the team goes 39-0 next season. I'll root for the players and the coach to succeed - they are my team's players and coaches. I'll attend a handful of games as I always do, I'll celebrate every win, i'll hurt with every loss. But i'm also a person who is a very data driven and very no bull kind of guy.
Heck i've made positive comments on threads on this site today about both individuals. I'll continue to make positive comments about them when they deserve it and criticize them when they deserve it. Frankly in another week all this will die down anyways.

 

[LargeFO]

"We are lucky MBob has not told a lot of so called GT fans to FO and gone elsewhere."

LOL. OOHHHHH...what's big, bad M-Bob gonna do? Put em in timeout?

 

[MidtownJacket]

@DTM - I hear you man - I am not an apologist and agree we gotta see better results from the program.

I also agree that this team had the potential to have a significantly better season than what we had. I think the distinction I draw is in the elements of coaching where CBG needs to improve. I stand by saying we played well on the defensive side of the ball - and rebounded well on both ends of the court. We have to find a way to get the ball in the hope more - but frankly 15 layups more across the season and we would've been 5 or 6 wins stronger.

We just HAVE to get the offense side figured out - but I think the defense and total team effort prevent me from labeling him a bad coach