Do academics mean anything anymore at college

[roadkill]

Donations from sidewalk fans is for the athletics side, not the academic side. Not sure they want 25k undergrads. The current campus, while still expanding, won’t hold a 25k undergrad population. Tech is already pretty pricy for an OOS student at close to $40k/year.

I understand your position and I want GT to be world class in both, like Cabrera (and most on here), but not at the sacrifice of academics. I’m not saying there shouldn’t be programs line Sports Management, Broadcast Communications, some kind of coaching prep degree, etc. But not a joke major, sorry, just no.

That's a decent middle ground to take on this issue. Maybe even a Sports Science degree if there is such a thing. Could be a precursor for someone interested in Sports Medicine.

 

[stinger78]

That's a decent middle ground to take on this issue. Maybe even a Sports Science degree if there is such a thing. Could be a precursor for someone interested in Sports Medicine.

Sports science, kinesiology, sports medicine are all majors that could easily fit GT’s charter. Not sure how many football/basketball players would bite into those. Now sports management might be a winner, but that would be part of the Business Admin program and no pushover.

 

[LT 1967]

I am assuming most of our members know that GT has a Minor in the Business School called "Sports, Society, and Technology". I am hopeful that we will see this expanded to a full Major.

I have attached the requirements for the Minor. I am not sure these hours are in addition to the regular hours required for the Business degree or just part of the total hours required.
From what I have read, I think these hours can apply to the total requirement.

I am one of those who believe GT can broaden the curriculum without losing our academic standing or reputation. I believe Michigan demonstrates this point as they are currently ranked #3 in PUBLIC universities behind only CAL and UCLA. This is according to U.S. News annual ranking.

 

[LT 1967]

CORRECTION. The Sports, Society, and Technology Minor is in the School of History and Sociology. Not in the Business School. Sorry!

 

[Vespidae]

Sports science, kinesiology, sports medicine are all majors that could easily fit GT’s charter. Not sure how many football/basketball players would bite into those. Now sports management might be a winner, but that would be part of the Business Admin program and no pushover.

The engine that drives GT is GTRI. If you want to add majors, you first need to demonstrate demand via research contracts. As I recall, the growth in research contracts is in medical research. I doubt the effect on athletics admissions is even a criteria.

 

[bigrabbit]

The grad school grows largely because grad students (particularly PhD students) are the workers powering our research programs. Conversely more undergrads puts pressure on facilities and resources, tuition iirc covers maybe one third of instructional expense plus we get a chunk from the state but less than you might think.

https://www.budgets.gatech.edu/File?F=22BudgetSummary.pdf

Anyway, it's a balancing act to keep things running smoothly.

 

[LT 1967]

The grad school grows largely because grad students (particularly PhD students) are the workers powering our research programs. Conversely more undergrads puts pressure on facilities and resources, tuition iirc covers maybe one third of instructional expense plus we get a chunk from the state but less than you might think.

https://www.budgets.gatech.edu/File?F=22BudgetSummary.pdf

Anyway, it's a balancing act to keep things running smoothly.

Thanks for this post, interesting information. Concerning the undergraduate population, see the attached concerning a new Dorm on the west side for FIRST YEAR students. I remember a newsletter from President Cabrera concerning an effort to make Tech more attractive to Rural Georgia students. Plus, I saw a recent report showing the student population at 62% Georgia students which is up from some previous reports which were below 60%.

A larger undergraduate population and more Georgia students should help our athletic support.

 

[bigrabbit]

Thanks for this post, interesting information. Concerning the undergraduate population, see the attached concerning a new Dorm on the west side for FIRST YEAR students. I remember a newsletter from President Cabrera concerning an effort to make Tech more attractive to Rural Georgia students. Plus, I saw a recent report showing the student population at 62% Georgia students which is up from some previous reports which were below 60%.

A larger undergraduate population and more Georgia students should help our athletic support.

That new dorm also helps while others are refurb’d. Most students have to go off campus year two and we’re close to not having dorm rooms for all freshman. That new dorm is $612/sf construction.

A common path year two is into privately owned apartments designed specifically for students, mostly on east side (I assume easier to get developers interested over there).

Typical: The Whistler, 3 students/apartment, each with their own room/bath plus small shared LR and kitchen, $1500/student/month. Nice study rooms, coffee shop, pool on roof Easy walking distance, GT didn’t have to raise the capital.

Here’s a new one: https://lvcollective.com/work/rambler-atlanta/

Dorm capacity, cultural shifts - students expect nicer space plus more women now who aren’t reasonably ok in some of the off campus dumps where we lived (The Grotto) due to safety concerns.

 

[LT 1967]

I think we can all be proud of what GT has accomplished over the years. I encourage you to read the attached article from Forbes. To be ranked with the 20 National Universities shown (10 Public and 10 Private) is quite an accomplishment. Article is about the "New IVYs".

I think we can be sure that GT will not succumb to winning at all costs.

 

[LT 1967]

I think we can all be proud of what GT has accomplished over the years. I encourage you to read the attached article from Forbes. To be ranked with the 20 National Universities shown (10 Public and 10 Private) is quite an accomplishment. Article is about the "New IVYs".

I think we can be sure that GT will not succumb to winning at all costs.

File was too big to attach. I will print and show you the list of universities.

 

[GoldZ]

I think there's a bit of a romantic view of college sports as pure, or amateur (love of the game) etc and that the move towards $$$ is recent. I assure you it isn't. I know players personally who received exams and completed term papers slid under their doors at night by the tutoring staff. It's much more transparent now ... players now offer to pay fellow students to prepare and submit their coursework and there's virtually no compliance investigations into it.

It was always a little dirty ... we just see it now more than ever. In a way, it will be better to go ahead and unionize and institute work rules.

Yesterday's cFB = stage 1 cancer....today's cFB = stage 4 cancer. Imo, we need to stop the "it's always been this way" mantra, or there is absolutely no hope of saving it, instead of just very little hope.

 

[GoldZ]

Says the ostrich with head in sand who died from suffocation.

 

[slugboy]

If we’re going to fret about the downfall of academics, then this seems to fit

 

[stinger78]

Yesterday's cFB = stage 1 cancer....today's cFB = stage 4 cancer. Imo, we need to stop the "it's always been this way" mantra, or there is absolutely no hope of saving it, instead of just very little hope.

Yes, the moral relativism is strong in that argument. A little does not equal a lot. That corruption has always been there to some degree, some worse than others, but it was policed. Now it is completely out of hand and virtually ignored.

 

[Northeast Stinger]

I would be curious as to what people think being a fan means.

I have pondered this in myself and it always begs the question for me, “Is there any reason for an intelligent, well-adjusted adult to be a fan?” I honestly don’t mean that to be as snarky as that sounds.

When I was a young child I played “cowboys and Indians” armed with my cowboy hat and cap pistols. I did not have a sophisticated worldview, obviously, but this play acting had something to do with “right” vanquishing “evil.” As I got older, this was replaced by a love for Tech sports. Realizing that “cowboys and Indians” was a childish distortion of reality, not to mention fraught with cruel historical inaccuracies, I opted for a game in which the outcome was far less certain, and the opponents were not painted in black and white terms.

Identification with Tech was easy since I was an Atlanta child and my family valued education.

This is getting long but wrapping up my complex feelings quickly will be hard.

Observation of local uga fans is instructive for me. Pattern recognition follows:

“Our daughter goes to Georgia so naturally we pull for the players who represent her school.” -not consciously recognizing even for a moment that the players not only do not represent the school, they have zero in come with 90% of the faculty, staff and students, including their daughter.

For most uga fans I know, school affiliation, identification with student athletes, or love of education have nothing to do with it. Pulling for uga is just part of their general culture like where they like to go in Florida for vacation, where they go to church, the political party that always support, their favorite mixed drink, and what they put on their steaks. The circles they move in, the friends they have, and their lifestyle choices never seem to evolve, grow or change and they like it like that. Each generation of their family will go to their graves being a bulldog fan because, like almost everything else they do, it is comfortable, familiar, and requires no thought or questioning.

I asked a bulldog fan recently if they were at all concerned about the excessive speeding, moving vehicle violations, DUIs, and the tragic deaths at uga. Not, One. Bit. Why? “Because this kind of thing happens at every university.” Unfortunately, this fit with their other “all or nothing” philosophies, like all politicians are corrupt, all government is bad, and everything you eat is going to kill you any way so why worry about a balanced diet.

Being a fan, it feels like more and more, requires an uncritical view of life that couples well with certain fictions or delusions about the state of sports. Most college competitions involve athletes who don’t represent us or the school, have nothing in common with us, and who generally engage in uneven contests that verge on being rigged. If the student athletes do represent the school, demographically, educationally or culturally, the degree to which they do is the degree to which they are “losers” on the athletic field.

Uga fans love not being “losers” on the courts of athletic competition but the degree to which this equates for them as some kind of personal life success story or personal victory honestly baffles me. I love to see Tech win, and clearly I identify with Tech on some level, but my whole reason for being is not intimately connected to Tech sports.

I think the reason the current trends in college athletics is disturbing is because it demonstrates in glaring ways how being a fan requires that you, to some degree, buy into a fiction. Just like you do when you see a movie and suspend disbelief. But the current trend is going to make it very difficult for some of us to suspend disbelief.

I apologize for the length of this and I also regret that I could not capture the nuances of my thinking and thus had to paint with a broad brush.

But I would be curious about how others are going to answer the question, “Why be a fan?” The old answers are not holding as well.

 

[Vespidae]

I would be curious as to what people think being a fan means.

I have pondered this in myself and it always begs the question for me, “Is there any reason for an intelligent, well-adjusted adult to be a fan?” I honestly don’t mean that to be as snarky as that sounds.

When I was a young child I played “cowboys and Indians” armed with my cowboy hat and cap pistols. I did not have a sophisticated worldview, obviously, but this play acting had something to do with “right” vanquishing “evil.” As I got older, this was replaced by a love for Tech sports. Realizing that “cowboys and Indians” was a childish distortion of reality, not to mention fraught with cruel historical inaccuracies, I opted for a game in which the outcome was far less certain, and the opponents were not painted in black and white terms.

Identification with Tech was easy since I was an Atlanta child and my family valued education.

This is getting long but wrapping up my complex feelings quickly will be hard.

Observation of local uga fans is instructive for me. Pattern recognition follows:

“Our daughter goes to Georgia so naturally we pull for the players who represent her school.” -not consciously recognizing even for a moment that the players not only do not represent the school, they have zero in come with 90% of the faculty, staff and students, including their daughter.

For most uga fans I know, school affiliation, identification with student athletes, or love of education have nothing to do with it. Pulling for uga is just part of their general culture like where they like to go in Florida for vacation, where they go to church, the political party that always support, their favorite mixed drink, and what they put on their steaks. The circles they move in, the friends they have, and their lifestyle choices never seem to evolve, grow or change and they like it like that. Each generation of their family will go to their graves being a bulldog fan because, like almost everything else they do, it is comfortable, familiar, and requires no thought or questioning.

I asked a bulldog fan recently if they were at all concerned about the excessive speeding, moving vehicle violations, DUIs, and the tragic deaths at uga. Not, One. Bit. Why? “Because this kind of thing happens at every university.” Unfortunately, this fit with their other “all or nothing” philosophies, like all politicians are corrupt, all government is bad, and everything you eat is going to kill you any way so why worry about a balanced diet.

Being a fan, it feels like more and more, requires an uncritical view of life that couples well with certain fictions or delusions about the state of sports. Most college competitions involve athletes who don’t represent us or the school, have nothing in common with us, and who generally engage in uneven contests that verge on being rigged. If the student athletes do represent the school, demographically, educationally or culturally, the degree to which they do is the degree to which they are “losers” on the athletic field.

Uga fans love not being “losers” on the courts of athletic competition but the degree to which this equates for them as some kind of personal life success story or personal victory honestly baffles me. I love to see Tech win, and clearly I identify with Tech on some level, but my whole reason for being is not intimately connected to Tech sports.

I think the reason the current trends in college athletics is disturbing is because it demonstrates in glaring ways how being a fan requires that you, to some degree, buy into a fiction. Just like you do when you see a movie and suspend disbelief. But the current trend is going to make it very difficult for some of us to suspend disbelief.

I apologize for the length of this and I also regret that I could not capture the nuances of my thinking and thus had to paint with a broad brush.

But I would be curious about how others are going to answer the question, “Why be a fan?” The old answers are not holding as well.

Why be a fan?

Studies have been done in this area. And the simple answer is “group affiliation“.

“The whole idea behind identification is that it’s really part of how we see ourselves and that doesn’t change easily,” says Robert J. Fisher, professor of marketing at The University of Western Ontario, whose research emphasizes the effects of social expectations on managerial and consumer decision making. “If you see yourself as a member of a family, that role doesn’t change. Those types of connections are very long-lasting and very strong.”

One identifies with the institution, the players, or the experience. If NIL destroys the player connection (likely), expect more emphasis on the school, its values and/or game day experience.

 

[MWBATL]

Unfortunately, this fit with their other “all or nothing” philosophies, like all politicians are corrupt, all government is bad, and everything you eat is going to kill you any way so why worry about a balanced diet.

Give them some credit. They got two out of three right!

 

[Northeast Stinger]

Why be a fan?

Studies have been done in this area. And the simple answer is “group affiliation“.

“The whole idea behind identification is that it’s really part of how we see ourselves and that doesn’t change easily,” says Robert J. Fisher, professor of marketing at The University of Western Ontario, whose research emphasizes the effects of social expectations on managerial and consumer decision making. “If you see yourself as a member of a family, that role doesn’t change. Those types of connections are very long-lasting and very strong.”

One identifies with the institution, the players, or the experience. If NIL destroys the player connection (likely), expect more emphasis on the school, its values and/or game day experience.

Good response.

I guess then for me the Tech tribe is a little too nebulous of a family unit to go out and get a yellow jacket tattoo.

 

[Northeast Stinger]

Give them some credit. They got two out of three right!

I guess if more Tech fans hated the government, like the typical uga fan, we would fill the stadium up.

 

[devcon]

Looks like academics matter to CBK.