Do academics mean anything anymore at college

MWBATL

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Take a good look at the guy in my avatar. No, that’s not me. He’s my grandfather who played fullback for Michigan in the 1920’s. The pick is a zoom in from the team photo. He earned a degree in Mechanical Engineering as well. Not all jocks back in the day were knuckle dragging mercenaries.
Agreed. There have ALWAYS been quality student athletes in college sports. But there have also been pure athletes who cared little about the academics. The topic is really about the balance between these two. Goiod schools have both. Factories do also, but have many more pure athletes and fewer student athletes.
 

boger2337

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I taught at a D3 school. Grants don’t exist there. Students take part in athletics as part of the college experience… not to get a grant.

CPJ described Tech as basically a service academy. Limited curriculum, good kids, lots of discipline. It isn’t like 99% of the schools in D1. Here’s how USMA describes athletics:

“The United States Military Academy has a saying that “every cadet is an athlete.” The military school model emphasizes athletics because they promote teamwork, communication, fitness and wellness, self-confidence, respect for self and others, put winning into perspective, and foster academic success.”

I think that’s right. It’s PART of the college experience. It’s not the sole reason.
I think that's the point of the new regime... To change GT away from that. To make it more like a bama, michigan and so on. That is for the better.
 

stinger78

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I think that's the point of the new regime... To change GT away from that. To make it more like a bama, michigan and so on. That is for the better.
I suspect GT alumni are split on that. I don’t want any part of a UGA experience, but could live with a UoM experience. That’s not easy to do. Yes, they just won it all, but witness UoM’s frustration over the years.
 

boger2337

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I suspect GT alumni are split on that. I don’t want any part of a UGA experience, but could live with a UoM experience. That’s not easy to do. Yes, they just won it all, but witness UoM’s frustration over the years.
Have to give and take. Cannot demand your team be all academia and all conference. Need a 65/35 to 80/20 split of football first being the higher number and true student athletes being the lower. That's usually your OL/Special Teams. Everyone else, I don't care if they can count to 5 as long as GT goes undefeated.
 

stinger78

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Have to give and take. Cannot demand your team be all academia and all conference. Need a 65/35 to 80/20 split of football first being the higher number and true student athletes being the lower. That's usually your OL/Special Teams. Everyone else, I don't care if they can count to 5 as long as GT goes undefeated.
I just don’t think GT is going that far. You have to count at least to log10 to get through Calc. :p
 

forensicbuzz

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LOL true true. GT needs to drop Calc as mandatory. That should of happened soon as Batt got here. Priority #1 haha.
It already has.

LMC only requires Finite Math (precursor to Survey of Calculus)

MATH 1711. Finite Mathematics. 4 Credit Hours.

Linear equations, matrices, linear programming, sets and counting, probability and statistics.
 
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stinger78

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It already has.

LMC only requires Finite Math (precursor to Survey of Calculus)

MATH 1711. Finite Mathematics. 4 Credit Hours.

Linear equations, matrices, linear programming, sets and counting, probability and statistics.
Wait, is this true? Only finite math now? No Calculus for that major? What is MA Tech becoming?
 

leatherneckjacket

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They've been taking Survey of Calculus at least since 1987, but that's still "calculus."
Yeah, it is a dumbed down version with much lower standards than the ones we took as engineers. I had a friend teach that class at Tech for several years while he got his PHD in Mathematics. Needless to say most of his students were athletes who would not have passed the regular Calculus classes.
 

g0lftime

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All depends. Gymnastics is revenue generating. So is swimming/diving. Various sports sell tickets, naming rights, and development. Know who has the best suite at BDS? Bruce Heppler.

Tech itself funds nothing. The Hill provides out of state tuition waivers which is the bulk of it's investment. The rest comes from A-T and tickets/media, etc.
If you think Heppler's box in the far right corner in the North stands is the best suite in BDS, then all the others must be horrible. I have been to several games in the golf suite. Now to be fair, he has a lot of office floor space under the stadium and an impressive array of ACC championship trophies. He has a lot of personalized pro golf bags of former players in there as well. He deserves everything he gets within the GTAA based on the way he runs his program and success he has had during his tenure. I wish he would get a better box for viewing football games.
 

boger2337

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Yeah, it is a dumbed down version with much lower standards than the ones we took as engineers. I had a friend teach that class at Tech for several years while he got his PHD in Mathematics. Needless to say most of his students were athletes who would not have passed the regular Calculus classes.
Still to advanced for some of these kids. Sadly GT cannot offer a major in some form of "liberal arts". Like Art History or Philosophy. Pad those majors with some bogus classes and let the boys focus on what really matters. Winning football games!
 

Tommy_Taylor_1972

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LOL true true. GT needs to drop Calc as mandatory. That should of happened soon as Batt got here. Priority #1 haha.
I doubt calculus will go away as a core requirement at Georgia Tech.

The UNIVERSITY SYSTEM OF GEORGIA, Academic & Student Affairs Handbook, Academics Affairs Division, 2.4 Core Curriculum states, "A calculus course is required in Area A2 for all engineering majors and for all programs at Georgia Institute of Technology. While students may fulfill this requirement with a math course higher than a first course in calculus, institutions may not require them to do so."

But there is hope for students not prepared for Georgia Tech's core requirements. The Learning Support Program (aka 0999 math and English courses). Georgia Tech uses benchmark scores earned via the SAT (Evidenced-Based Reading and Writing and Math) or ACT (English and Math) to determine placement in Learning Support. Students who score below 480 on the SAT Evidence-Based Reading and Writing Section (or 17 on the ACT English) will be required to complete the learning support program for English. Students who score below 530 on the SAT Math Section (or 21 on the ACT Math) will be required to complete the learning support program for math. Georgia Tech will consider the higher of the SAT and ACT scores when determining learning support placement.

According to Fitch Ratings. Georgia Tech is a major research university with premier engineering and applied sciences programs, as evidenced by consistent growth in enrollment and very strong student quality indicators over time. Regarding the influence of the Athletic Director on changing the Georgia Institute of Technology curriculum. The GTAA's positive credit rating is very dependent on Georgia Tech's very high credit rating and historic support to the GTAA as a component unit of Georgia Tech (similar to GTRI and the Georgia Tech Foundation). With the GTAA having a approximate $289M debt (including a 2024 revenue bond for $40M for the Student Athlete Performance Center) and Georgia Tech the school not being legally obligated (but historically willing) to back the GTAA debt, I would think it would be difficult for the GTAA to ask Georgia Tech to ask the University System of Georgia to change the requirement for calculus for the benefit of athletics success. GTAA's annual budget of ~$128 M supporting facilities, scholarships, and salaries, compared to Georgia Tech's ~$2.1B budget supporting ~45,000 students plus faculty and facilities would likely not be enough influence to remove calculus from the requirements as preparation for success in graduating from Georgia Tech. The Board of Regents value Georgia Tech as STEM university and they own the land upon which GTAA and Georgia Tech operates. Academics may be of more value than athletics for the brand and culture of Georgia Tech.

If I could pass calculus in 1968 coming from a public high school in southwest Georgia with a senior class of 35, any of today's student athletes should be able to if they can get accepted into Tech. If they cannot pass calculus, hello portal. At least they might get a degree from somewhere.
 

boger2337

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I doubt calculus will go away as a core requirement at Georgia Tech.

The UNIVERSITY SYSTEM OF GEORGIA, Academic & Student Affairs Handbook, Academics Affairs Division, 2.4 Core Curriculum states, "A calculus course is required in Area A2 for all engineering majors and for all programs at Georgia Institute of Technology. While students may fulfill this requirement with a math course higher than a first course in calculus, institutions may not require them to do so."

But there is hope for students not prepared for Georgia Tech's core requirements. The Learning Support Program (aka 0999 math and English courses). Georgia Tech uses benchmark scores earned via the SAT (Evidenced-Based Reading and Writing and Math) or ACT (English and Math) to determine placement in Learning Support. Students who score below 480 on the SAT Evidence-Based Reading and Writing Section (or 17 on the ACT English) will be required to complete the learning support program for English. Students who score below 530 on the SAT Math Section (or 21 on the ACT Math) will be required to complete the learning support program for math. Georgia Tech will consider the higher of the SAT and ACT scores when determining learning support placement.

According to Fitch Ratings. Georgia Tech is a major research university with premier engineering and applied sciences programs, as evidenced by consistent growth in enrollment and very strong student quality indicators over time. Regarding the influence of the Athletic Director on changing the Georgia Institute of Technology curriculum. The GTAA's positive credit rating is very dependent on Georgia Tech's very high credit rating and historic support to the GTAA as a component unit of Georgia Tech (similar to GTRI and the Georgia Tech Foundation). With the GTAA having a approximate $289M debt (including a 2024 revenue bond for $40M for the Student Athlete Performance Center) and Georgia Tech the school not being legally obligated (but historically willing) to back the GTAA debt, I would think it would be difficult for the GTAA to ask Georgia Tech to ask the University System of Georgia to change the requirement for calculus for the benefit of athletics success. GTAA's annual budget of ~$128 M supporting facilities, scholarships, and salaries, compared to Georgia Tech's ~$2.1B budget supporting ~45,000 students plus faculty and facilities would likely not be enough influence to remove calculus from the requirements as preparation for success in graduating from Georgia Tech. The Board of Regents value Georgia Tech as STEM university and they own the land upon which GTAA and Georgia Tech operates. Academics may be of more value than athletics for the brand and culture of Georgia Tech.

If I could pass calculus in 1968 coming from a public high school in southwest Georgia with a senior class of 35, any of today's student athletes should be able to if they can get accepted into Tech. If they cannot pass calculus, hello portal. At least they might get a degree from somewhere.
Yeah the BOR won't allow the change. Which is messed up. This NEEDS to be removed. GT must start allowing kids to come to the school that have zero interest in a degree. That are there to play football. Why set goofy limits based on 85 kids out of total enrollment. Let them slide and boost your brand.
 

GTpdm

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Yeah the BOR won't allow the change. Which is messed up. This NEEDS to be removed. GT must start allowing kids to come to the school that have zero interest in a degree. That are there to play football. Why set goofy limits based on 85 kids out of total enrollment. Let them slide and boost your brand.

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Why create entire bogus degree programs, based on 85 kids?
 

forensicbuzz

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Yeah the BOR won't allow the change. Which is messed up. This NEEDS to be removed. GT must start allowing kids to come to the school that have zero interest in a degree. That are there to play football. Why set goofy limits based on 85 kids out of total enrollment. Let them slide and boost your brand.
I so disagree with this. If this is where we're headed, let's form the Georgia Tech Academy for Revenue-Generating Sports and just bring the kids in there without the lie.
 
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