Do academics mean anything anymore at college

[ChicagobasedJacket]

I understand your point about unions, but I think this is a little different. If a players union is formed, it would be more like the pros, where all the players are in the same union. That would allow for collective bargaining league wide and limitations on things like transferring and $$ could be codified. It should actually end the Wild Wild West we have today.

Personally, I’d rather see a divestiture of the revenue sports from the universities than what we’re going to see. Let those sports form academies like they do internationally. Take the joke of education at some of these schools out of the equation.

My sentiments exactly. I personally think a divestiture may help schools like Tech compete in football when we academics are removed.

 

[MusicalBuzz]

And yet I cannot stand NFL football. Most games just don’t have the full game day experience of a good college football game with the bands, the tailgating, the traditions, etc.

I must be the odd duck.

the Enlightened Duck, actually

 

[boger2337]

It hasn't for a LONG time. At least for teams that wanted to win.
I personally think you see a decline in education as a whole soon. More people will be accepted, but the curve will be greater. AI is coming hard and fast, you either know how to work with it or you're replaced.

I don't mind "college athletes" majoring in football. Even if they get the weakest degree several are taken care of if they can speak properly and add 2+2. My buddy played for Ohio. He went with the easy degree, makes over 175k because he was an athlete and knew people. Not doing anything related to his degree. He "majored" in football. I've seen this over and over again.

 

[boger2337]

GT needs to take the way of Factories and find a way to give the kids easy course work. Breathing 1101, chewing gum and walking 1102. That should be the extent of their college education. They are hired to play football and be an ambassador for the program. College sports is a way to make your school look cool (by winning). Not to actually field the kids that take academics seriously. They likely cannot compete with kids who's only focus is on a sport.

 

[MWBATL]

It hasn't for a LONG time. At least for teams that wanted to win.
I personally think you see a decline in education as a whole soon. More people will be accepted, but the curve will be greater. AI is coming hard and fast, you either know how to work with it or you're replaced.

I don't mind "college athletes" majoring in football. Even if they get the weakest degree several are taken care of if they can speak properly and add 2+2. My buddy played for Ohio. He went with the easy degree, makes over 175k because he was an athlete and knew people. Not doing anything related to his degree. He "majored" in football. I've seen this over and over again.

Truth.

There has been cheating on that front for a minimum of 80 years now. Tulane had undefeated seasons...in the SEC...back in the 1930's. Two guesses how they did it. Their 3 SEC Championships are still more than 7 existing SEC schools.

 

[Vespidae]

GT needs to take the way of Factories and find a way to give the kids easy course work. Breathing 1101, chewing gum and walking 1102. That should be the extent of their college education. They are hired to play football and be an ambassador for the program. College sports is a way to make your school look cool (by winning). Not to actually field the kids that take academics seriously. They likely cannot compete with kids who's only focus is on a sport.

As someone who actually teaches D1 athletes, I have a different experience.

The areas of concern are usually football, basketball and baseball. Students from all other sports - golf, tennis, track, swimming, diving, gymnastics - are usually straight A students. And not "basketweaving" either. No engineers, but plenty of Finance, Education, Nursing etc. and they are usually excellent students.

Even in Football, some students are clear B students ... smart, dedicated, committed. Of course you have those who could care less about school. Those don't do well (obviously) but, in all fairness, should never have been recruited in the first place. You just know they are going to be a problem.

In business, you recruit folks who have a skillset AND fit into your culture. It's not just about an easy degree. It's about fitting into the culture of Tech and embracing it. (And the same for any other school for that matter.)

 

[boger2337]

As someone who actually teaches D1 athletes, I have a different experience.

The areas of concern are usually football, basketball and baseball. Students from all other sports - golf, tennis, track, swimming, diving, gymnastics - are usually straight A students. And not "basketweaving" either. No engineers, but plenty of Finance, Education, Nursing etc. and they are usually excellent students.

Even in Football, some students are clear B students ... smart, dedicated, committed. Of course you have those who could care less about school. Those don't do well (obviously) but, in all fairness, should never have been recruited in the first place. You just know they are going to be a problem.

In business, you recruit folks who have a skillset AND fit into your culture. It's not just about an easy degree. It's about fitting into the culture of Tech and embracing it. (And the same for any other school for that matter.)

I can agree with that, but I am also on the side of the only sports that should be funded across the NCAA are revenue generating sports. That everything else should be club level and done for "fun".

 

[stinger78]

Truth.

There has been cheating on that front for a minimum of 80 years now. Tulane had undefeated seasons...in the SEC...back in the 1930's. Two guesses how they did it. Their 3 SEC Championships are still more than 7 existing SEC schools.

Tulane did that back when students were athletes and athletes were students. Tulane did not have easy majors back in the day and then decide to drop them and kill their program.

 

[Vespidae]

All depends. Gymnastics is revenue generating. So is swimming/diving. Various sports sell tickets, naming rights, and development. Know who has the best suite at BDS? Bruce Heppler.

Tech itself funds nothing. The Hill provides out of state tuition waivers which is the bulk of it's investment. The rest comes from A-T and tickets/media, etc.

 

[MWBATL]

Tulane did that back when students were athletes and athletes were students. Tulane did not have easy majors back in the day and then decide to drop them and kill their program.

Umm, I disagree. My Dad was a student at Tulane then and knew many of the football players. He described them as being "dumb as rocks" and recruited from places like Ohio (unusual back in the 30's) and had all kinds of 'help' to stay eligible in classwork. Sound at all familiar? I do agree that the practice of establishing jock majors was not in place then.

 

[IM79]

Truth.

There has been cheating on that front for a minimum of 80 years now. Tulane had undefeated seasons...in the SEC...back in the 1930's. Two guesses how they did it. Their 3 SEC Championships are still more than 7 existing SEC schools.

It goes back more than 80 years.

Here is a 1905 qoute from the below book: "a social obession- a boy killing, man mutilating, education-prostituting, gladiatorial sport"

https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/91ZTW491imL._SY522_.jpg

The Opening Kickoff by Dave Revsine

In The Opening Kickoff, Dave Revsine tells the riveting story of the formative period of American football between 1890 and 1915. In just a quarter century football spread across the nation, captivating people from coast to coast. It was a time that saw the game’s meteoric rise, fueled by overflow crowds, breathless newspaper coverage, and newfound superstars—including one of the most thrilling and mysterious the sport has ever seen. But it was also a period racked by controversy in academics, recruiting, and physical brutality that, in combination, threatened football’s very existence. A vivid storyteller, Revsine brings it all to life in this captivating narrative.

 

[boger2337]

All depends. Gymnastics is revenue generating. So is swimming/diving. Various sports sell tickets, naming rights, and development. Know who has the best suite at BDS? Bruce Heppler.

Tech itself funds nothing. The Hill provides out of state tuition waivers which is the bulk of it's investment. The rest comes from A-T and tickets/media, etc.

Revenue at a certain number. Curious how much it cost the A-T fund to prop up softball, swimming, gymnastics, golf. How much of an impact would it be if all that money went to football (knowing those donations would likely dry up rather than go to football). Hell, I wouldn't be above making a donation to football mandatory to donate to other sports LOL.

 

[stinger78]

Umm, I disagree. My Dad was a student at Tulane then and knew many of the football players. He described them as being "dumb as rocks" and recruited from places like Ohio (unusual back in the 30's) and had all kinds of 'help' to stay eligible in classwork. Sound at all familiar? I do agree that the practice of establishing jock majors was not in place then.

GA Tech had course like Rocks for Jocks, Intro to Textiles, Cookbook Physics, and a handful of other courses, too, when I was there. Calc was not required in the IM degree until the late 50’s either, though analytical geometry and linear algebra seem to be as far as I can tell. There was an easier path back then. Not sure why Calc was added, but it was and it hurt.

 

[boger2337]

GA Tech had course like Rocks for Jocks, Intro to Textiles, Cookbook Physics, and a handful of other courses, too, when I was there. Calc was not required in the IM degree until the late 50’s either, though analytical geometry and linear algebra seem to be as far as I can tell. There was an easier path back then. Not sure why Calc was added, but it was and it hurt.

Simply remove Calc and it can change things. I've heard several stories that kids have not given GT a chance because of Calc. It's a ridiculous requirement.

 

[RamblinRed]

I disagree on the idea of only having revenue producing sports and then 'club' sports.
The scholarships allow many students to attend schools they would otherwise have little means of attending.
The goal of college sports should be to open up educational opportunities for students.
It should not be primarily about entertaining the masses. The money made from the masses is what makes creating so many scolarships possible and that is a very appropriate use of that money.

 

[forensicbuzz]

I disagree on the idea of only having revenue producing sports and then 'club' sports.
The scholarships allow many students to attend schools they would otherwise have little means of attending.
The goal of college sports should be to open up educational opportunities for students.
It should not be primarily about entertaining the masses. The money made from the masses is what makes creating so many scolarships possible and that is a very appropriate use of that money.

I agree and disagree with this. If the scholarship is the only way they get into Tech for an Olympic sport, then maybe they should be a scholar-athlete somewhere less rigorous, where they can be accepted as a regular student. Not fleshing this all out, but playing with the scenario of club sports versus varsity sports.

 

[Vespidae]

I disagree on the idea of only having revenue producing sports and then 'club' sports.
The scholarships allow many students to attend schools they would otherwise have little means of attending.
The goal of college sports should be to open up educational opportunities for students.
It should not be primarily about entertaining the masses. The money made from the masses is what makes creating so many scolarships possible and that is a very appropriate use of that money.

I taught at a D3 school. Grants don’t exist there. Students take part in athletics as part of the college experience… not to get a grant.

CPJ described Tech as basically a service academy. Limited curriculum, good kids, lots of discipline. It isn’t like 99% of the schools in D1. Here’s how USMA describes athletics:

“The United States Military Academy has a saying that “every cadet is an athlete.” The military school model emphasizes athletics because they promote teamwork, communication, fitness and wellness, self-confidence, respect for self and others, put winning into perspective, and foster academic success.”

I think that’s right. It’s PART of the college experience. It’s not the sole reason.

 

[slugboy]

FYI, Michigan offered a player in the portal, and he committed. The school didn’t admit the player.

It’s not just us dealing with this

 

[Tommy_Taylor_1972]

I taught at a D3 school. Grants don’t exist there. Students take part in athletics as part of the college experience… not to get a grant.

CPJ described Tech as basically a service academy. Limited curriculum, good kids, lots of discipline. It isn’t like 99% of the schools in D1. Here’s how USMA describes athletics:

“The United States Military Academy has a saying that “every cadet is an athlete.” The military school model emphasizes athletics because they promote teamwork, communication, fitness and wellness, self-confidence, respect for self and others, put winning into perspective, and foster academic success.”

I think that’s right. It’s PART of the college experience. It’s not the sole reason.

I suspect today's college athletes cannot imagine being in a fraternity. Basketball All American Rich Yunkus did in 196, an Academic All-American, and was drafted into pro basketball. Imagine a two sport athlete participating in ROTC. Basketball All American and baseball player Roger Kaiser did in 1958 and was ROTC distinguished military graduate and still played pro basketball. Imagine a football star player also a star track runner. Brent Cunningham did it 1968-1972 and football's Singletary is doing it now at Tech. When I was at Tech 1968-72, playing basketball and doing ROTC, the sports teams still actually had tryouts for non-scholarship athletes to play on the teams. And Intramural athletics was a big deal. It did not seem odd to be a student and an athlete, scholarship or not, varsity or not. It is sad that athletes today are not taking advantage of all that college life could be, focusing too much on sports and less on being a college student.

In 1926, the code of athletics at Georgia Tech was published in the Blue Print,with emphasis on respect for the game and character of the athlete. Scholarships did not come until several years later, then only in football until 1948. Players came to get an education and represent the school by participating in sports. That culture produced such as Bobby Jones, Coach Alexander, Coach Dodd, Coach Hyder and resulted in three national football championships before 1953. Much has changed since then.

 

[dressedcheeseside]

Take a good look at the guy in my avatar. No, that’s not me. He’s my grandfather who played fullback for Michigan in the 1920’s. The pick is a zoom in from the team photo. He earned a degree in Mechanical Engineering as well. Not all jocks back in the day were knuckle dragging mercenaries.