Depth Chart released

[JacketFromUGA]

I am not above repeating myself, so I will say this again as I have said other times on other threads, Simmons was absolutely held in the Orange Bowl on at least three plays (basically tackled on one play in particular) and I do not believe offensive lines are going to get away with that as much this year, especially if he puts on a few more pounds.

wonder if @Longestday could get some Vines of that to see

 

[BabyJacket1990]

No argument on the offense, though with a lot of holes to fill we'll see. But the defense? Holding FSU to three FGs in the second half was good. But in the last three games of the season, we gave up almost 1,500 yards and 95 points in total offense. The good part of me says the defense will get better. The bad part of me is scared to death it could get worse. Were I an opposing coach I might spend the week ahead practicing against our defense more than the offense. Shoot, the latter hasn't worked very well.

The D line has been our sore thumb since CPJ arrived. It's no different than the O line. This past season we saw the difference a big O line makes. If you have a big disruptive D line , your going to be good on defense. I pray that this group this year can emerge and become good but they are still very under sized. Our front seven is out matched in most games but our D found ways to create turn overs that saved us a time or two.

 

[Northeast Stinger]

This past season we saw the difference a big O line makes

Correction, we saw the difference a GOOD offensive line makes that gets through a season without major injuries. I went back and averaged the weights of each starting offensive line since CPJ has been at Tech and the average size of the starting line has not changed all that much.

Our front seven is out matched in most games

So, here is what I propose. Our offensive line the last few years has had an easier time or a more difficult time depending, not on the size of the defensive line they faced, but on how good the defensive line was that they were facing. I especially remember some years that VPI gave Tech fits with its defensive line and it had some linemen that were barely 240. What if this year the issue for our defensive line, like those defensive lines that really gave us fits in the past, is not their size but how good they are? I seem to remember this last season our offensive line having some of its best games against really big defensive lines, but lines that were not as athletic as they needed to be. So maybe that will be true for our defensive line this year. They may not be the biggest defensive line that some teams face but they may be more athletic and experienced.

 

[BabyJacket1990]

Correction, we saw the difference a GOOD offensive line makes that gets through a season without major injuries. I went back and averaged the weights of each starting offensive line since CPJ has been at Tech and the average size of the starting line has not changed all that much.

So, here is what I propose. Our offensive line the last few years has had an easier time or a more difficult time depending, not on the size of the defensive line they faced, but on how good the defensive line was that they were facing. I especially remember some years that VPI gave Tech fits with its defensive line and it had some linemen that were barely 240. What if this year the issue for our defensive line, like those defensive lines that really gave us fits in the past, is not their size but how good they are? I seem to remember this last season our offensive line having some of its best games against really big defensive lines, but lines that were not as athletic as they needed to be. So maybe that will be true for our defensive line this year. They may not be the biggest defensive line that some teams face but they may be more athletic and experienced.

Why are you still arguing the point ? The stats prove my point. I'm not trying to bash our team but I think the struggles on defense come from being under sized. Well I don't "think" that, I know so. I hope they turn it around this season and become the strength but it's a tough challenge when most teams we face have some big nasty O line.

 

[BabyJacket1990]

Our coaches are working hard to find those big boys but they still have a ways to go. Gamble and Kallon have the body's your looking for in the trenches. We need 2-4 More of those guys body's and our D stats would improve(how much ? I can't answer that ) but it would be better against the run. Let's be honest with each other. Our defense line was soft but we did add a few guys that could help but we're not going to see that group dominate. I hope they do if that counts for anything.

 

[Northeast Stinger]

Why are you still arguing the point ? The stats prove my point. I'm not trying to bash our team but I think the struggles on defense come from being under sized. Well I don't "think" that, I know so. I hope they turn it around this season and become the strength but it's a tough challenge when most teams we face have some big nasty O line.

O.K., I will try hard not to be argumentative.
I want our defensive line to add some weight also. Always have. I think this summer some of our guys will probably do just that.

When you say the stats proves your point I guess I am confused about what stat and what point. Just being bigger in and of itself is not the answer. Our offensive line proved that point this past year. They were good athletically, had experience and avoided injuries. It was not being bigger that made the difference.

So I am just saying that our defensive line can be better because we are adding (Hopefully) a solid DT in JHD. Gotis is not as big now as he was a couple years ago but I think he is a much better player. Other players are adding weight and experience. But some of these were good regardless, like the All American Freshman Freeman.

If you will just admit that it is not solely about weight, either for the offensive line or the defensive line, I will gladly agree with you that adding some weight will help.

 

[Minawreck]

Our coaches are working hard to find those big boys but they still have a ways to go. Gamble and Kallon have the body's your looking for in the trenches. We need 2-4 More of those guys body's and our D stats would improve(how much ? I can't answer that ) but it would be better against the run. Let's be honest with each other. Our defense line was soft but we did add a few guys that could help but we're not going to see that group dominate. I hope they do if that counts for anything.

VPI has been using "undersized" front 7's for years. The problem with our lines hasn't been size but attitude and technique. I think our undersized D Line will be a force this season.

Also under Roof we've actually been good against the run out of pro style offenses.

 

[CobbTech]

VPI has been using "undersized" front 7's for years. The problem with our lines hasn't been size but attitude and technique. I think our undersized D Line will be a force this season.

Also under Roof we've actually been good against the run out of pro style offenses.

And remember, all of our really good defensive lines under Gailey/Tenuta were undersized. Anoai, Adam Oliver, Vance Walker etc. Those some really disruptive, undersized DL's.

Probably the top two DT's we've faced the last year two years and two of the best in the nation were undersized. Aaron Donald 6'0 285 lbs and Grady Jarrett 6'0 290 lbs.

 

[BabyJacket1990]

O.K., I will try hard not to be argumentative.
I want our defensive line to add some weight also. Always have. I think this summer some of our guys will probably do just that.

When you say the stats proves your point I guess I am confused about what stat and what point. Just being bigger in and of itself is not the answer. Our offensive line proved that point this past year. They were good athletically, had experience and avoided injuries. It was not being bigger that made the difference.

So I am just saying that our defensive line can be better because we are adding (Hopefully) a solid DT in JHD. Gotis is not as big now as he was a couple years ago but I think he is a much better player. Other players are adding weight and experience. But some of these were good regardless, like the All American Freshman Freeman.

If you will just admit that it is not solely about weight, either for the offensive line or the defensive line, I will gladly agree with you that adding some weight will help.

I know we have some good ball players in Freeman and gostis but they are under sized. I think they have the skills to be even better but the problem is the weight issue imo. I'm not saying that weight is the only issue we face but it is the biggest concern. I'm just speaking the truth is all. I have no doubt that this group will improve this season but I just don't see them making a "Huge" jump unless they start eating.

 

[DCSS]

The offensive linemen are usually bigger than the defensive linemen, or am I missing the point of this argument?

 

[forensicbuzz]

Stating an opinion as fact, doesn't make it a fact. Here's my opinion: 285-290 pound DT's are not undersized in a 4-3 or 4-2-5 defense. It's undersized for a 3-4, but not a 4.3. At 285-290 pounds, the DT typically has a balance of strength, quickness, agility and speed. They use those advantages and good technique to put the offensive linemen on their heels, thus dominating teh LOS. On the DL, it's not about weight, per se, but about ability.

There are instances where bulk just makes it easier as a DL, but (in my opinion) those times are much less often. Our problems last year wasn't size, it was speed and technique. Early in the year, the only push we got on the QB was when Gotsis broke free. As the year progressed, Freeman progressed and began emerging. Except for Green (who was oft injured in his career), the rest of the guys were young, inexperienced and learning. Losing some of the players we did in the off-season last year really hurt our depth on the DL. It may have improved the lockerroom, but it was truly a "thin gold line." That being said, I'm excited to see how this team performs in the fall. We have everyone except for Green coming back, bigger, stronger, faster, and more experienced. Add to this, Jabari in middle.

If we push Gamble out to SDE, I don't think we're undersized at all. Hunt and Gotsis are around 285-290, Gamble is in the same range at SDE. With Freeman at WDE at 240-245, I think we'll have an excellent run-stopping DL. Swap KW for Gamble on 3 and long, and we'll put a lot of pressure on opposing QB's with a 4-man rush. That's what I expect and hope. There's much speed and quickness on this DL. If they stay healthy and the players progress normally from last year, we'll have a pretty good defense this year.

 

[awbuzz]

When our D doesn't have to depend upon turnovers to stop an opponent, THEN most of us will feel more comfortable with us winning games on a consistent basis.

 

[Jean-Baptiste Rochambeau]

yes they got better, but we all have a sneaking suspicion that the turnover margin might not remain. think about that first INT in the OB. Another inch or two and we don't pick that off. We made a great play to bat it down, so I'm not calling it a fluke... just that things like that are not always sustainable.

and we gave up over 600 yards of total offense in the OB, so there is plenty of room for improvement. I'm excited about the D for the first time in awhile, though.

I totally agree. Over our last seven games we gave up 23+ ppg. Too many, but we were 6-1 and four opponents were highly ranked teams with purportedly high powered offenses. The loss, a two point defeat to an undefeated playoff team. It is not false optimism to believe we can be better on offense and defense this fall.

 

[AE 87]

Imo, Gamble should and will remain as the 3rd DT in rotation, unless Kallon really steps up.

Otherwise I agree with @forensicbuzz and @Northeast Stinger on size not being the deciding factor.

 

[Techster]

I think a lot of us on here mistake size for quality and depth. Our problem really isn't the size of our players, we just have some players on the DL that should really be playing other positions. Pat Gamble is a good example. He's serviceable at DT because of his size, but his skillset is really that of a DE. Does anyone remember him making an impact at DT? He was pretty much a just a body we had to use because the only "plus" DTs we had there were Shawn Green and Adam Gotsis at DT. When we finally moved him out to DE, he made a noticeable impact on the game.

That's why getting Jabari back and Kallon taking the next step (or two) is so crucial for us in 2015. They give us the flexibility to play guys along the DL at their best positions. I said it in another thread, having Jabari back gives us one of the best DLs in the ACC if not the country.

 

[slugboy]

@Architorture23:

We beat them (Miss State) because GT had the better team. Frankly, nobody in the NCAA is playing defense these days like the 85 Chicago Bears or the "Steel Curtain" teams from Pittsburgh circa the 70's. Using your analysis no doubt the entire MSU offense went out for a steak dinner and crowed about: "how we put up 34 points; a Hail Mary TD; 600 yards of offense and should have won the OB if it wasn't for our pathetic defense."

If you are expecting a score reminiscent of the GT 222 Cumberland 0 Game every week as your metric for defensive success in 2015 then embrace the dissapointment now as that is very unlikely. I also didn't observe the GT defenders standing around crying while only the GT offense celebrated the OB win.

Could the defense have played better; sure. So could the offense as we did have to punt a few times. But how about some credit to the entire TEAM for humiliating the favored (7.5 points) MSU Bulldogs from the storied SEC West as opposed to nit picking about garbage yardage. Frankly their (MSU) entire 1A and 1B defenses looked like garbage all night from my recollection.

Enjoy the win and the success that comes along with it for the entire GT Nation and leave the statistics for the losing team to find a moral victory.

I'm not going to say a college team is playing as well as all-time great NFL defensive squads, but TCU is in the national championship mix because of defense. Alabama, Ole Miss, Ohio State, and Stanford were distinguished by defense. The other MSU--Michigan State--was playing a big bowl and routing Baylor with defense. For pete's sake, Clemson was better on defense than offense last year.

 

[Northeast Stinger]

The other MSU--Michigan State--was playing a big bowl and routing Baylor with defense.

?

 

[Northeast Stinger]

Stating an opinion as fact, doesn't make it a fact. Here's my opinion: 285-290 pound DT's are not undersized in a 4-3 or 4-2-5 defense. It's undersized for a 3-4, but not a 4.3. At 285-290 pounds, the DT typically has a balance of strength, quickness, agility and speed. They use those advantages and good technique to put the offensive linemen on their heels, thus dominating teh LOS. On the DL, it's not about weight, per se, but about ability.

There are instances where bulk just makes it easier as a DL, but (in my opinion) those times are much less often. Our problems last year wasn't size, it was speed and technique. Early in the year, the only push we got on the QB was when Gotsis broke free. As the year progressed, Freeman progressed and began emerging. Except for Green (who was oft injured in his career), the rest of the guys were young, inexperienced and learning. Losing some of the players we did in the off-season last year really hurt our depth on the DL. It may have improved the lockerroom, but it was truly a "thin gold line." That being said, I'm excited to see how this team performs in the fall. We have everyone except for Green coming back, bigger, stronger, faster, and more experienced. Add to this, Jabari in middle.

If we push Gamble out to SDE, I don't think we're undersized at all. Hunt and Gotsis are around 285-290, Gamble is in the same range at SDE. With Freeman at WDE at 240-245, I think we'll have an excellent run-stopping DL. Swap KW for Gamble on 3 and long, and we'll put a lot of pressure on opposing QB's with a 4-man rush. That's what I expect and hope. There's much speed and quickness on this DL. If they stay healthy and the players progress normally from last year, we'll have a pretty good defense this year.

Well said.

 

[croberts]

Don't sleep on Simmons. I think he has the highest ceiling of our young DEs. He's going to be a BEAST once his body fills out and he gets stronger.

I like these three(freeman , whitehead and Simmons )better than any group that I can remember in a long time. I was convinced if Simmons had arrived in Jan. and Freeman in August their roles might have been reversed. Before Freeman's coming out party, would you rather have had Whitehead eligible?If it requires any thought at all, how can you not be pumped to see all three this year!

 

[Techster]

I like these three(freeman , whitehead and Simmons )better than any group that I can remember in a long time. I was convinced if Simmons had arrived in Jan. and Freeman in August their roles might have been reversed. Before Freeman's coming out party, would you rather have had Whitehead eligible?If it requires any thought at all, how can you not be pumped to see all three this year!

I remember how we were FREAKING out before the 2014 season because the two guys we were counting on (Jabari and Whitehead) were not going to be eligible for the season. It may have been a blessing in disguise because it forced the younger guys into action, and it also moved Jabari to DT. Remember, he was slated to play DE...and probably would have stayed there. Now our young DEs are the most promising group we've had there since...? We have a legit 2 deep there and it's almost an embarrassment of riches for GT standards.