Defense regression

[GTFLETCH]

Coach Collins defenses on the Flats are worse than Ted Roofs.... They are getting softer by the day...

 

[lv20gt]

It's a good question. I generally think you can see it immediately but I have seen coaches take 2-3 years to really gel. I hope that's the situation we're in but it's hard to see that because we're an absolute **** show to watch with zero signs of improvement. I actually like Thacker as a DC but I have no damn clue why we look lost out there.

Sorry, I was asking from a retrospective view instead. Meaning the that any rs. jr or seniors (or 100th year super seniors) have played under 3 different defensive staffs. That dynamic by itself is already not good. Then you have the dynamic where the players who should be leading the defense have 3 different staffs so which of those coaching has the most effect? Probably depends on the player to be honest.

Regardless, I think the issues this year aren't really that hard to see. We have a weak front 7. Our DEs are okay, but our DT play and LB plays is really bad. I think there are a couple of dynamics at play for why we are struggling so much. One is our DL can't really accomplish much just by 4. They aren't generating consistent pressure just with 4 nor are they being able to stop the inside run with just 4. So we are forced to use LBs both to stop the run and try to generate pressure. That leave more opportunities open underneath, and I think because of that our DBs are trying to cheat too often to cover for that and getting punished because of it.

Now that isn't the only dynamic at play, and our DEs have shown flashes of being able to generate some pressure on their own just not enough but I think it's a big cause of our struggles.

We also have just more basic issues like missing tackles or flowing too far in a direction that takes us out position to make a play. Plus at this point there has to just be a mental component after struggling for so long.

 

[gt02]

Actually, I was surprised at the talent differential on the defensive front 7's. I think when folks take a deep breath, they'll see different body types across the front 7, regardless of what the recruit rankings and size on depth charts say.

BC's linebackers easily outclass ours. They look different and play different. It was like two Knight body types that knew their assignments and played confidently/aggressively. (Knight may get there; still young).

Would you take our DL over BC's? I'm not so sure. At one point our DL was: Ryans, Brooks, Griffin, Domineck. At a glance I'd say BC and most ACC DLs beat that on recruiting ranking/offer sheet talent.

I'm not absolving the coaching by any means, but I think front talent is issue #1 to correct. We recruited some really good DEs and have some already playing. Same goes with LB from 2020 class and Knight if he can play consistent. DT is our weakness in terms of having recruited true difference-makers, and it's a big gap, but there is a rising tide across the front 7 that will help any DC look better.

I have not checked to see how we compare talent wise, so I don’t know the answer to your question. But I can guarantee you that difference in talent between GT and BC or GT and Syr on the defense side at least, if there is one, is not as wide as the score margin.

 

[gt02]

From what I’ve witness the last 4 weeks that the defense players have quit. I read that as they don’t believe in the coaching and they want a change

Wouldn’t surprise me. If you are a player at GT under the old regime and all you heard for a year was about the “historic transition,” seems like a possible reaction.

 

[Tjacket]

Curry and Thacker must go

I have saying this since game 2. High school coaches are older and have more experience than Thacker. 18 games and no improvement. Can't stop anyones offense.

 

[Techster]

Get rid of the damn 4-2-5 and go to an athletic 4-3 please. Drop both Tariq and Juanyeh down to play OLB, Tariq playing the Sam. Allen at FS and not sure about SS, Oliver ain’t getting it done either.

JFC...I've been saying that we need to move TC and JT to LB for years now. We need their speed and athleticism at LB in the most desperate way. Rumor is Juanyeh was projected to move to LB under CPJ.

IMO, you can have average play from them at DB, or have high level play from them at LB. All I know is what we're doing right now just isn't working. Our defense is a mess, and our players are all out of position. It's like everyone is on a different page, especially the position groups.

CGC got nominated for 3 Broyles awards at 3 different places...and now he's here and GT's defense, CGC's specialty, is an absolute trainwreck. Makes me wonder if Thacker is making the defensive call, which I wouldn't blame CGC for because I believe in hiring people and letting them do their job. However, Thacker probably needs more seasoning. If you read his bio, he's moved up VERY quickly...and right now it could be that the time he needs is not working at GT because there's no way our defense should be this bad.

 

[Ibeeballin]

From what I’ve witness the last 4 weeks that the defense players have quit. I read that as they don’t believe in the coaching and they want a change

So what staff have they believed in bc a few of these guys have been bad for 3 DCs?

 

[Ibeeballin]

I'll throw out one other theory after the last two consecutive weeks which is founded on nothing other than speculation. Are our defensive signals getting stolen? Are our guys giving tells? I really hope we can self-scout and figure out a light switch there to turn this thing around, otherwise we have real issues. I don't expect our D to be game-changers given the issues up front, but the striking lack of resistance today reminded me of MTSU. While the MTSU game felt worse being there Live, I had similar feelings of helplessness today, and it turned out our signals were stolen.

I don’t think we disguise well

 

[Ibeeballin]

JFC...I've been saying that we need to move TC and JT to LB for years now. We need their speed and athleticism at LB in the most desperate way. Rumor is Juanyeh was projected to move to LB under CPJ.

IMO, you can have average play from them at DB, or have high level play from them at LB. All I know is what we're doing right now just isn't working. Our defense is a mess, and our players are all out of position. It's like everyone is on a different page, especially the position groups.

CGC got nominated for 3 Broyles awards at 3 different places...and now he's here and GT's defense, CGC's specialty, is an absolute trainwreck. Makes me wonder if Thacker is making the defensive call, which I wouldn't blame CGC for because I believe in hiring people and letting them do their job. However, Thacker probably needs more seasoning. If you read his bio, he's moved up VERY quickly...and right now it could be that the time he needs is not working at GT because there's no way our defense should be this bad.

lol it’s the same defense

 

[gtstinger776]

Sorry, I was asking from a retrospective view instead. Meaning the that any rs. jr or seniors (or 100th year super seniors) have played under 3 different defensive staffs. That dynamic by itself is already not good. Then you have the dynamic where the players who should be leading the defense have 3 different staffs so which of those coaching has the most effect? Probably depends on the player to be honest.

Regardless, I think the issues this year aren't really that hard to see. We have a weak front 7. Our DEs are okay, but our DT play and LB plays is really bad. I think there are a couple of dynamics at play for why we are struggling so much. One is our DL can't really accomplish much just by 4. They aren't generating consistent pressure just with 4 nor are they being able to stop the inside run with just 4. So we are forced to use LBs both to stop the run and try to generate pressure. That leave more opportunities open underneath, and I think because of that our DBs are trying to cheat too often to cover for that and getting punished because of it.

Now that isn't the only dynamic at play, and our DEs have shown flashes of being able to generate some pressure on their own just not enough but I think it's a big cause of our struggles.

We also have just more basic issues like missing tackles or flowing too far in a direction that takes us out position to make a play. Plus at this point there has to just be a mental component after struggling for so long.

I largely agree. But some of this is fundamental technique - whiffing / missing tackles, seeing the receiver in your zone and not reacting, poor body position / hand-use in coverage, not filling your gap. I can tolerate losing “weight room” or “talent” plays. But that wasn’t the extent of it

 

[GtBaseball3]

Even if Thacker and button leave, who could they hire? They don't have the resources to go out and get somebody. Who really would want to come to this train wreck right now? I think they are stuck with what they got.

I would go look at Mike MacIntyre from Memphis! Former tech player and pretty good defensive guy. I know some ole miss fans who hated to see him leave as DC. Also, he was assistant coach of the year the last time he was in the ACC.

 

[tmhunter52]

Apparently, and sadly, all the “juice” Collins has been pitching since he’s been here has just been Kool-Aid

 

[MWBATL]

lol it’s the same defense

@Ibeeballin ...you are a smart guy, knowledgable in the ways of football and especially defense.

Are you willing to tell us your thoughts? Is it the player talent deficiency, or the coaching? Or is it more complex than that?

I cannot comment on, nor do like seeing comments about players '"quitting". I do NOT think fans can tell that from the stands or the TV set. If you were in the locker room and dorm room, you would know, but none of us are, so I would ask that we stop such nonsense.

I will admit that the last two defensive performances have left me...aghast...at how poor we have performed. But I will NOT attack individual players who wear the white and gold (no matter what). They are out there doing their best. If you don't think they are up to snuff, blame the coaches who play them, NOT the players themselves.

 

[GTFLETCH]

This is Bill Lewis type stuff...when Chris Martin and J. Lee left the team (Those players bought in last year)... this Coach is losing the players..WHY??... However Collins has brought in highly touted transfers for the defense ( 5 star DE, three 4 star DBs) who played and practice all last year, so yes the defense should be good enough to slow down Cuse & BC even with players walking away... My issues isn't the losses, it is how we are losing.... last year we heard that the players were playing hard... Not sure I bought that,(VT,UGA??) but hey it is a rebuild year, a zero year an the transfers could not play.. This year all transfers can play... and yesterday Boston College entered the game averaging only 66 rushing yards per game, with a season high of 90 rushing yards. The Eagles finished with 264 rushing yards and scored 48 points. This is worse than any Paul Johnson Defense... This is Bill Lewis type stuff, whil Coach Collins seems to be able to recruits "highly touted stars"...his defenses are worse that Ted Roof or Al Groh...Just sad

 

[Adadu]

This is a coaching problem. I don't know if guys are already starting to give up on collins or what but just watching other teams play we are SLOW on defense, linebackers look like they have no idea what they are doing/don't read their keys, and we are forced to rely on blitz pressure...wich most of the time doesn't even result in pressure. The offense is not even close to being there. We can't run this system where we expect sims to throw it ~40 times a game now, that much is clear. We need to rely on the power run game and the horses that we have in the backfield in order to set sims up with easier passing opportunities. I thought what BC did yesterday on offense was a great example of what our approach with sims should be. But I don't want to hear any "we're improving, juice and positivity in the 404 baby!" bull**** anymore.

 

[Techster]

lol it’s the same defense

LOL well "that same defense" is getting drawn and quartered every weekend. Players are consistently out of position or have no clue where they should be. After a while, you can't keep blaming players because coaches control who plays, or how they get coached to respond to situations.

Our last four opponents have broken offensive records for their programs playing against us. That's a sign that something is fundamentally wrong with our defense.

I've defended CGC from day one, and will continue to do so, but when it comes to his calling card, it's time to get real that it's going in the wrong direction.

 

[Ibeeballin]

LOL well "that same defense" is getting drawn and quartered every weekend. Players are consistently out of position or have no clue where they should be. After a while, you can't keep blaming players because coaches control who plays, or how they get coached to respond to situations.

Our last four opponents have broken offensive records for their programs playing against us. That's a sign that something is fundamentally wrong with our defense.

I've defended CGC from day one, and will continue to do so, but when it comes to his calling card, it's time to get real that it's going in the wrong direction.

So if i tell you to post on Gtswarm everyday at 11am for 12 weeks straight but you continuously post at 11:05 and 11:10, Is that coaching or maybe, just maybe the players might be the issue?

 

[stech81]

So if i tell you to post on Gtswarm everyday at 11am for 12 weeks straight but you continuously post at 11:05 and 11:10, Is that coaching or maybe, just maybe the players might be the issue?

Could be his watch is fast

 

[Ibeeballin]

This is Bill Lewis type stuff...when Chris Martin and J. Lee left the team (Those players bought in last year)... this Coach is losing the players..WHY??... However Collins has brought in highly touted transfers for the defense ( 5 star DE, three 4 star DBs) who played and practice all last year, so yes the defense should be good enough to slow down Cuse & BC even with players walking away... My issues isn't the losses, it is how we are losing.... last year we heard that the players were playing hard... Not sure I bought that,(VT,UGA??) but hey it is a rebuild year, a zero year an the transfers could not play.. This year all transfers can play... and yesterday Boston College entered the game averaging only 66 rushing yards per game, with a season high of 90 rushing yards. The Eagles finished with 264 rushing yards and scored 48 points. This is worse than any Paul Johnson Defense... This is Bill Lewis type stuff, whil Coach Collins seems to be able to recruits "highly touted stars"...his defenses are worse that Ted Roof or Al Groh...Just sad

Dude, Chris Martin saw his best friend die and got injured for the umpteenth this offseason. At What point is enough trauma is enough?

 

[4shotB]

So if i tell you to post on Gtswarm everyday at 11am for 12 weeks straight but you continuously post at 11:05 and 11:10, Is that coaching or maybe, just maybe the players might be the issue?

I would say both here. In any organization, if there are no consequences for repeatedly making the same mistakes then ultimately that falls onto managment.

The best guy I ever worked for, who was a mentor, told me that he hated to hear people complain about the people under their direct supervision. He always told them if they were performing poorly, either train them or get rid of them. But to do nothing but complain was indicative of bad/no leadership skills.