Dave Patenaude's Offense

Heisman's Ghost

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4,945
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Albany Georgia
No More excuses for the OC...

Cochran is a huge addition for the Yellow Jackets but figuratively and literally. At 6-foot-7, 318-pounds, he’ll be one of the biggest players on Georgia Tech’s entire roster, let alone the offensive line. No more excuses for the Coaches...Bowl Bound or Bust!!!
LT - Devin Cochran (CGC Guy)
LG - Jack DeFoor (Ole Miss Transfer played 1 year for CPJ and 1 year for CGC)
C - Kenny Cooper (if healthy) Or the CGC Walk On at Center can't remember his name just remember that the coaches thought he played great...
RG - Ryan Johnson (CGC Guy)
RT - Zach Quinney

With that Oline CGC better be able to win 6 games or he will have to get a new OC...simple as that...

This makes a lot of sense, the part about Coach Collins …"better be able to win 6 games or he will have to get a new OC...simple as that" Except that it will be time for the defense or the special teams to fall apart and the fans will be complaining about those coaches instead of DP.
 

Alexgrant1

Georgia Tech Fan
Messages
39
No More excuses for the OC...

Cochran is a huge addition for the Yellow Jackets but figuratively and literally. At 6-foot-7, 318-pounds, he’ll be one of the biggest players on Georgia Tech’s entire roster, let alone the offensive line. No more excuses for the Coaches...Bowl Bound or Bust!!!
LT - Devin Cochran (CGC Guy)
LG - Jack DeFoor (Ole Miss Transfer played 1 year for CPJ and 1 year for CGC)
C - Kenny Cooper (if healthy) Or the CGC Walk On at Center can't remember his name just remember that the coaches thought he played great...
RG - Ryan Johnson (CGC Guy)
RT - Zach Quinney

With that Oline CGC better be able to win 6 games or he will have to get a new OC...simple as that...
I would say at least 5 wins or bust due to our tough schedule
 

takethepoints

Helluva Engineer
Messages
6,148
We ran a lot of read option. It wasn't the read option that we loved under CPJ, but we ran a lot of read option. As with CPJ, if our guys can't block, the read option ain't going nowhere...let's not forget that CPJ's offense was plagued by bad OL blocking in the latter years.

Let's also keep in mind that maybe Patenaude and CGC ran the offense to what they wanted to see in the future in order to get all our guys more reps in it and set us up for better years, as opposed to trying to make each play successful. It would be like CPJ coming in without Nesbitt/Dwyer/BayBay/and good OLs and running Gailey's plays just so he was successful that day. You run your offense and build on each play.
1. "...let's not forget that CPJ's offense was plagued by bad OL blocking in the latter years." Like, say, 2017, when we led the nation in rushing during the regular season and finished 3rd? Or 2018 when we finished 3rd again? Let's drop this while there's still breath left in our bodies. The problem was always on D (except for 2015) for all the Johnson years.

2. "Let's also keep in mind that maybe Patenaude and CGC ran the offense to what they wanted to see in the future in order to get all our guys more reps in it and set us up for better years, as opposed to trying to make each play successful." So, let me get this straight. I dropped over $2500 on Tech tiks to watch an offense that wasn't trying to give us the best chance to win every game? I mean, I know you are right, but that means that Collins and co. lying thru their teeth before the season started ("We'll tailor the team to the talent of the players!") and that we suckers came to the games to see an intentionally sub-optimum performance. I figured this out myself and that's why I quit going. We had better hope that this "strategy" works. Soon.
 

BCJacket

Ramblin' Wreck
Messages
761
Just my humble poorly informed opinion.

But I feel like most of the criticism of CDP is comparing him to an imaginary alternate with different conditions.

It would be fair if someone said "_____ worked well, I don't know why we got away from that." I don't hear much of that.

I hear a lot of "What we did didn't work. We should have done 'this and this' [with a better O-line and a different quarterback.]"

To my recollection we saw CDP try a hybrid run option with TO-didn't really work; pass spread with LJ -ugly; and finally more of the spread offense with JG -probably practicing what we'll be running in the future (once a losing season was forgone).

For everyone who says we should have played more to our personnel with read option, etc. Did you watch the USF, Citadel and Temple games? He tried it, didn't work.

I'm not sure what else CDP was supposed to have tried that could have worked better given the real conditions he had to work with.
 

cyclejacket

Jolly Good Fellow
Messages
176
Location
Gainesville, GA
OK, educate me. What type of offense was he running last year? All I’ve heard in support is excuses along with we’re not playing to win, we’re trying to install a new system.

Did it matter how many times it was asked? None of you were going to get an answer that you accepted. Thus perpetual bitching rather than practicing patience as you implied in the post I replied to.

I get it, we were all frustrated. But you nor any other of the posters know more about football than our coaches, and you all sure don't know anything about CGC and what he was trying to accomplish in the first transitional year of his tenure.
 

iceeater1969

Helluva Engineer
Messages
9,779
Tech ran a fairly standard RPO-Spread offense last year. A lot of reads, a lot of zone runs, and a lot of quick passes. The problem was that the QB could not complete a lot of those shallow passes. Meaning the D would stack the box and basically shut down the run. CDP did a good job of trying to mitigate that by calling home run balls, and both Graham and Brown did an excellent job of completing a lot of those throws. The OL was so battered, it really wouldn’t have mattered what they ran. Couldn’t pass block, couldn’t run block. Somebody mentioned in the Mason thread about how his YPC were kind of low, but his YAC are near the top of the country. There was simply no push up front, and Mason had to earn almost every yard he got. I think a lot of people will think CDP is a lot better this year, simply because the team will be a lot better. OL and QB play is essential, and Tech was mediocre to very bad in both of those categories last season.
Completely agree. The defense was all pa ked in and our wr were not able to get open until late in year. We did continue to maintain wide gaps in ol which put pressure on the ol.

Also - i think qb is by far the most important position.
We started the season w 3 qbs who were recruited for a different offense and had a total of 18 completions.
Cgc and Pnut gave each of them there chance and the board went nuts.
Now we have 1 that can compete for qb and there is no locker room issues. NOW cgc has a proven track record of giving guys a shot which he will fully use recruiting of top talent.
 

White_Gold

GT Athlete
Messages
314
Location
Dahlonega
1. "...let's not forget that CPJ's offense was plagued by bad OL blocking in the latter years." Like, say, 2017, when we led the nation in rushing during the regular season and finished 3rd? Or 2018 when we finished 3rd again? Let's drop this while there's still breath left in our bodies. The problem was always on D (except for 2015) for all the Johnson years.

2. "Let's also keep in mind that maybe Patenaude and CGC ran the offense to what they wanted to see in the future in order to get all our guys more reps in it and set us up for better years, as opposed to trying to make each play successful." So, let me get this straight. I dropped over $2500 on Tech tiks to watch an offense that wasn't trying to give us the best chance to win every game? I mean, I know you are right, but that means that Collins and co. lying thru their teeth before the season started ("We'll tailor the team to the talent of the players!") and that we suckers came to the games to see an intentionally sub-optimum performance. I figured this out myself and that's why I quit going. We had better hope that this "strategy" works. Soon.


Newsflash, you can have those stats and still be considered bad at what you do. Those OL units sucked compared to say 08/09/10 and 14.

As for your second point, it doesn't particularly matter how you feel about what was said. There are bigger things to juggle that take nuance and understanding which you seem to lack. Catering to the fans is about the least important thing last year. What was important was the message sent to the team and to potential recruits that are looking to join our team.
 

White_Gold

GT Athlete
Messages
314
Location
Dahlonega
Just my humble poorly informed opinion.

But I feel like most of the criticism of CDP is comparing him to an imaginary alternate with different conditions.

It would be fair if someone said "_____ worked well, I don't know why we got away from that." I don't hear much of that.

I hear a lot of "What we did didn't work. We should have done 'this and this' [with a better O-line and a different quarterback.]"

To my recollection we saw CDP try a hybrid run option with TO-didn't really work; pass spread with LJ -ugly; and finally more of the spread offense with JG -probably practicing what we'll be running in the future (once a losing season was forgone).

For everyone who says we should have played more to our personnel with read option, etc. Did you watch the USF, Citadel and Temple games? He tried it, didn't work.

I'm not sure what else CDP was supposed to have tried that could have worked better given the real conditions he had to work with.


It's the typical guys belly-aching that the triple/CPJ is never coming back. They're going to do it until CGC wins significantly. The type that will secretly want Tech to lose just to show us "New Coachers" that we were wrong.

CDP did what he could last year. Obviously the offense was below what would be considered sub-par. Nobody is defending that. He had two QBs that were not good QBs. One that admits that he didn't practice with the same intensity each weak. And the other was a true freshman. Offensive line that was hurt, inexperienced, young, and small.
 

LibertyTurns

Banned
Messages
6,216
Did it matter how many times it was asked? None of you were going to get an answer that you accepted. Thus perpetual bitching rather than practicing patience as you implied in the post I replied to.

I get it, we were all frustrated. But you nor any other of the posters know more about football than our coaches, and you all sure don't know anything about CGC and what he was trying to accomplish in the first transitional year of his tenure.
Yes, it mattered. We could have built the RPO you allege we ran off a transition from our old blocking schemes. We didn’t because we didn’t run RPO. We supposedly ran a spread scheme, well that’s what we claimed 2/3 of the way thru the year.

What I do know about CGC’s transition is what he told us. CGC said he wanted to change the culture & that he has. He told us we’d run a Pro-style offense tailored to our player’s strengths. We got half of that maybe.

Sorry, I don’t by the “we threw the season away & it was one long scrimmage” narrative. I’ve never known a single coach to not try to win every game played at any level.
 

stech81

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8,962
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Woodstock Georgia
Last year was bad but this is a new season I don't judge a coach on one year. CGC can recruit he has shown that he knows defensive all we can do is hope the offensive coaches do a good job. If we are not looking any better on offense by mid season I won't mind seeing CBK call the plays ( don't think this would happen and may not be a good idea)
 

gtstinger776

Ramblin' Wreck
Messages
565
It's the typical guys belly-aching that the triple/CPJ is never coming back. They're going to do it until CGC wins significantly. The type that will secretly want Tech to lose just to show us "New Coachers" that we were wrong.

CDP did what he could last year. Obviously the offense was below what would be considered sub-par. Nobody is defending that. He had two QBs that were not good QBs. One that admits that he didn't practice with the same intensity each weak. And the other was a true freshman. Offensive line that was hurt, inexperienced, young, and small.

Yeah, I am definitely not one of the CPJ homers. I can’t make it more clear: Collins is capable of doing grata things, CDP has the potential to hold him back b/c the lack of identity on offense


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

LibertyTurns

Banned
Messages
6,216
Yeah, I am definitely not one of the CPJ homers. I can’t make it more clear: Collins is capable of doing grata things, CDP has the potential to hold him back b/c the lack of identity on offense


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Many had chosen sides before the coaching change so every thread that even hints at disagreement with anything being run is now evaluated on allegiance to the new staff. I personally like many of the changes, other changes not so much but for some reason GT fans fall in love with certain assistants or coaches & seem to love them more than the school itself. You’d think we’d all want to win, but some are more enamored with certain coaches winning or losing so they can be right. Time for me to bow out of this thread. It’s never going to be about what type of offense the damn dude runs, will run, etc & all about whether or not you’re on someone else’s side of the argument.
 

White_Gold

GT Athlete
Messages
314
Location
Dahlonega
Yeah, I am definitely not one of the CPJ homers. I can’t make it more clear: Collins is capable of doing grata things, CDP has the potential to hold him back b/c the lack of identity on offense


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I don't disagree with any of that. CDP is not above reproach either, let me make that clear. I guess my point is, just be patient. We'll know some more and get a clearer picture when Spring football rolls around.
 

White_Gold

GT Athlete
Messages
314
Location
Dahlonega
Many had chosen sides before the coaching change so every thread that even hints at disagreement with anything being run is now evaluated on allegiance to the new staff. I personally like many of the changes, other changes not so much but for some reason GT fans fall in love with certain assistants or coaches & seem to love them more than the school itself. You’d think we’d all want to win, but some are more enamored with certain coaches winning or losing so they can be right. Time for me to bow out of this thread. It’s never going to be about what type of offense the damn dude runs, will run, etc & all about whether or not you’re on someone else’s side of the argument.


What pisses me off is the doodoo'ing on someone else's job when it's well known he doesn't have the pieces to do it properly. That's not to say he's above being criticized.

What pisses other people off is the lack of wins and the dichotomy of what was said vs. what we actually ran in games.


I think too many people are taking criticisms of the coaches as personal digs. Do not do that.
 

Techster

Helluva Engineer
Messages
18,392
1. "...let's not forget that CPJ's offense was plagued by bad OL blocking in the latter years." Like, say, 2017, when we led the nation in rushing during the regular season and finished 3rd? Or 2018 when we finished 3rd again? Let's drop this while there's still breath left in our bodies. The problem was always on D (except for 2015) for all the Johnson years.

2. "Let's also keep in mind that maybe Patenaude and CGC ran the offense to what they wanted to see in the future in order to get all our guys more reps in it and set us up for better years, as opposed to trying to make each play successful." So, let me get this straight. I dropped over $2500 on Tech tiks to watch an offense that wasn't trying to give us the best chance to win every game? I mean, I know you are right, but that means that Collins and co. lying thru their teeth before the season started ("We'll tailor the team to the talent of the players!") and that we suckers came to the games to see an intentionally sub-optimum performance. I figured this out myself and that's why I quit going. We had better hope that this "strategy" works. Soon.

If you rush 80+% of the time, I would hope your offense is leading the nation in rushing...otherwise...

It's like the Air Raid, if you pass that much, hopefully your offense is leading the nation in passing...otherwise...

Let it go man. CPJ himself said our OL couldn't execute their assignments...I mean there was a reason Mike Sewak was reviled around here. I have zero desire to pull stats about our OL because it's not worth my time, but anyone who paid attention to our OL during that time knew there were issues...especially when it came time to pass the ball.
 

takethepoints

Helluva Engineer
Messages
6,148
Newsflash, you can have those stats and still be considered bad at what you do. Those OL units sucked compared to say 08/09/10 and 14.

As for your second point, it doesn't particularly matter how you feel about what was said. There are bigger things to juggle that take nuance and understanding which you seem to lack. Catering to the fans is about the least important thing last year. What was important was the message sent to the team and to potential recruits that are looking to join our team.
1. You don't do so well at the very thing that every DC you come up against is expecting unless you are right decent at it. Take the VT game in 18. Bud was ready as could be and we still rushed for 465 yards and beat the snot out of them while throwing one (that's 1) pass that was incomplete. I think a lot of people here thought that because Paul used to ***** about OL blocking that it was actually all that bad. No. He bitched about it every year he was at Tech. Game after game after game. He was, shall we say, hard to please.

2. Oh, I understand the reasons for doing what they did. That doesn't mean that I shouldn't feel cheated. The job of any coach is to win, not to show how he's going to run the offense in the future. You might just as well say that a general who loses a battle is ok because he's trying to get the troops into the kind of shape he thinks they should have. There have been soldiers like that (John Hood, for instance), but nobody thought much of their results.
 

takethepoints

Helluva Engineer
Messages
6,148
II have zero desire to pull stats about our OL because it's not worth my time, but anyone who paid attention to our OL during that time knew there were issues...especially when it came time to pass the ball.
No doubt you know what Paul's response was to this. He'd look his interlocutor in the eye, calmly pull out his press guide, and review the very statistics (it took me all of 5 minutes) you say don't tell you anything that looking at our games did. You are right about our pass protection in general; we never tore up the pea patch at that. And neither did other spread option teams. All of them ran the ball. Very effectively. Every year. Behind OLs who were very good at blocking for the run.
 

danny daniel

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2,619
Nobody is faulting him for that. Many of us question why he didn’t tailor the play calling to the personnel. We could’ve run a lot of read option and designed runs out of the shotgun that utilized our athletic QBs and Mason. Instead we ran generic spread plays for most of the season and abandoned the run too often.

Agree and his play calling was not favorable to keeping drives going (example on 2nd and 6 we did not run to get the first down; instead we wasted a down throwing incomplete and then came up short on 3rd and punted....again; this was a pattern not to put on the OL). Same general issue in the 4 down zone. The other issue is not calling plays on first down to gain some yardage. Too often we were in 2nd and 10 or 12 or 15. This also killed drives and led to punts.
 

JacketOff

Helluva Engineer
Messages
3,012
Agree and his play calling was not favorable to keeping drives going (example on 2nd and 6 we did not run to get the first down; instead we wasted a down throwing incomplete and then came up short on 3rd and punted....again; this was a pattern not to put on the OL). Same general issue in the 4 down zone. The other issue is not calling plays on first down to gain some yardage. Too often we were in 2nd and 10 or 12 or 15. This also killed drives and led to punts.
But how much of that can actually be credited to the play calling itself and not the execution on the field? A lot of those incomplete passes you mention are very high percentage throws, that most other teams probably complete ~80%+ of, while Tech was probably around 50% or below. When you can’t throw the ball and the defense doesn’t respect the pass, it makes it extremely difficult to run. People talk about “abandoning the run” a lot on this board. So can someone point me to a game where Tech was having sustained success running the ball and then abandoned it? The only games I remember from this season where the running game was efficient were the Miami and NC St games. There’s also a ton of examples of the read option and designed runs from the gun in every game. When you can’t block, it doesn’t matter what plays you call, none of them will be successful.
 

684Bee

Helluva Engineer
Messages
1,660
Agree and his play calling was not favorable to keeping drives going (example on 2nd and 6 we did not run to get the first down; instead we wasted a down throwing incomplete and then came up short on 3rd and punted....again; this was a pattern not to put on the OL). Same general issue in the 4 down zone. The other issue is not calling plays on first down to gain some yardage. Too often we were in 2nd and 10 or 12 or 15. This also killed drives and led to punts.

silly CDP. Calling the “incomplete pass” play, when he could’ve called the “run for 7 yards” play.
 
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