Dave Patenaude's Offense

[Kennethshannon20]

So there is a lot of talk on the board about not understanding what offensive scheme we are running. Some feel we look lost and there is no scheme. Here is some information to clear things up for us, maybe it will also allow many here to understand better where we are, where we are going, and why we are struggling.

Popular NCAA Offensive Schemes

Triple option - I don't really need to explain, right?!

Power Run - 2-3 back sets , 1-3 TE, play action passing, fullback and Hbacks used

Spread Option - Shotgun, normally 1 RB, no huddle, uptempo, short passes or screens to get ball out quickly, tons of 3-4-or-5 wide sets.

Pro Style - Multiple sets including single backs, I formation, shotgun, 50/50 balls for run to set up pass game, lots of motioning and lots of people getting the ball.

Confusion Cause
CGC kept saying we will run an NFL style offense. So, people thought Pro style was coming. What he meant was he will run an offense that allows players to develop and showcase themselves for the NFL draft. Meaning our offense will be schemed to showcase the necessary abilities and skills of the players to get the right attention.

Dave Patenaude's Offensive Scheme Is...
Spread Option
Pat has a scheme that is a spread Option offense based around the run. This does not mean we will always run, it means we will have to run effectively to set up the pass game he wants. By utilizing an effective run game, you create a numbers advantage where you can pass over the opponents head consistently. Not genius football. He does utilize RPO a lot as well, which requires the QB to make the right read AND the line to block for the run well. So we move on to the part that is hard to swallow for most Tech fans...

Why We Are Struggling
We have an inexperienced QB coupled with an OLine that is being transitioned to pass block AND the OLine is injured and has new and walk on players.

What does this mean?

Well the QB is suppose to make the RPO read, right? Well inexperience is leading to late decisions. See the QBs holding the ball too long sometimes before giving or pulling. Also, the RPO requires the QB and receivers be in sync. This is why the WR aren't even looking sometimes when we throw, they read the D different than the QB. Add to it that we are not blocking well for the run OR pass and we fall apart.

The remedy is better blocking on the line along with experience of the guys playing together and learning not only the playbook but what each other is going to see play in and play out. This is why we keep seeing the run game causing three n outs. PNodes offense requires the run to click to be effective, else, they pass rush constant and we fall flat because we can't keep em honest. Also, we can't keep tempo for the same reasons mentioned above and that is a huge part of what makes this work.

 

[Tech93]

So there is a lot of talk on the board about not understanding what offensive scheme we are running. Some feel we look lost and there is no scheme. Here is some information to clear things up for us, maybe it will also allow many here to understand better where we are, where we are going, and why we are struggling.

Popular NCAA Offensive Schemes

Triple option - I don't really need to explain, right?!

Power Run - 2-3 back sets , 1-3 TE, play action passing, fullback and Hbacks used

Spread Option - Shotgun, normally 1 RB, no huddle, uptempo, short passes or screens to get ball out quickly, tons of 3-4-or-5 wide sets.

Pro Style - Multiple sets including single backs, I formation, shotgun, 50/50 balls for run to set up pass game, lots of motioning and lots of people getting the ball.

Confusion Cause
CGC kept saying we will run an NFL style offense. So, people thought Pro style was coming. What he meant was he will run an offense that allows players to develop and showcase themselves for the NFL draft. Meaning our offense will be schemed to showcase the necessary abilities and skills of the players to get the right attention.

Dave Patenaude's Offensive Scheme Is...
Spread Option
Pat has a scheme that is a spread Option offense based around the run. This does not mean we will always run, it means we will have to run effectively to set up the pass game he wants. By utilizing an effective run game, you create a numbers advantage where you can pass over the opponents head consistently. Not genius football. He does utilize RPO a lot as well, which requires the QB to make the right read AND the line to block for the run well. So we move on to the part that is hard to swallow for most Tech fans...

Why We Are Struggling
We have an inexperienced QB coupled with an OLine that is being transitioned to pass block AND the OLine is injured and has new and walk on players.

What does this mean?

Well the QB is suppose to make the RPO read, right? Well inexperience is leading to late decisions. See the QBs holding the ball too long sometimes before giving or pulling. Also, the RPO requires the QB and receivers be in sync. This is why the WR aren't even looking sometimes when we throw, they read the D different than the QB. Add to it that we are not blocking well for the run OR pass and we fall apart.

The remedy is better blocking on the line along with experience of the guys playing together and learning not only the playbook but what each other is going to see play in and play out. This is why we keep seeing the run game causing three n outs. PNodes offense requires the run to click to be effective, else, they pass rush constant and we fall flat because we can't keep em honest. Also, we can't keep tempo for the same reasons mentioned above and that is a huge part of what makes this work.

Thanks for sharing this. Helps me to at least try to understand what he is doing out there.

 

[TheTechGuy]

So there is a lot of talk on the board about not understanding what offensive scheme we are running. Some feel we look lost and there is no scheme. Here is some information to clear things up for us, maybe it will also allow many here to understand better where we are, where we are going, and why we are struggling.

Popular NCAA Offensive Schemes

Triple option - I don't really need to explain, right?!

Power Run - 2-3 back sets , 1-3 TE, play action passing, fullback and Hbacks used

Spread Option - Shotgun, normally 1 RB, no huddle, uptempo, short passes or screens to get ball out quickly, tons of 3-4-or-5 wide sets.

Pro Style - Multiple sets including single backs, I formation, shotgun, 50/50 balls for run to set up pass game, lots of motioning and lots of people getting the ball.

Confusion Cause
CGC kept saying we will run an NFL style offense. So, people thought Pro style was coming. What he meant was he will run an offense that allows players to develop and showcase themselves for the NFL draft. Meaning our offense will be schemed to showcase the necessary abilities and skills of the players to get the right attention.

Dave Patenaude's Offensive Scheme Is...
Spread Option
Pat has a scheme that is a spread Option offense based around the run. This does not mean we will always run, it means we will have to run effectively to set up the pass game he wants. By utilizing an effective run game, you create a numbers advantage where you can pass over the opponents head consistently. Not genius football. He does utilize RPO a lot as well, which requires the QB to make the right read AND the line to block for the run well. So we move on to the part that is hard to swallow for most Tech fans...

Why We Are Struggling
We have an inexperienced QB coupled with an OLine that is being transitioned to pass block AND the OLine is injured and has new and walk on players.

What does this mean?

Well the QB is suppose to make the RPO read, right? Well inexperience is leading to late decisions. See the QBs holding the ball too long sometimes before giving or pulling. Also, the RPO requires the QB and receivers be in sync. This is why the WR aren't even looking sometimes when we throw, they read the D different than the QB. Add to it that we are not blocking well for the run OR pass and we fall apart.

The remedy is better blocking on the line along with experience of the guys playing together and learning not only the playbook but what each other is going to see play in and play out. This is why we keep seeing the run game causing three n outs. PNodes offense requires the run to click to be effective, else, they pass rush constant and we fall flat because we can't keep em honest. Also, we can't keep tempo for the same reasons mentioned above and that is a huge part of what makes this work.

I would note that it would be quite the challenge to run the RPO slower than our current offense. Any slower and I would think it were intentional.

 

[Kennethshannon20]

I would note that it would be quite the challenge to run the RPO slower than our current offense. Any slower and I would think it were intentional.

I do agree with that...

 

[danny daniel]

So there is a lot of talk on the board about not understanding what offensive scheme we are running. Some feel we look lost and there is no scheme. Here is some information to clear things up for us, maybe it will also allow many here to understand better where we are, where we are going, and why we are struggling.

Popular NCAA Offensive Schemes

Triple option - I don't really need to explain, right?!

Power Run - 2-3 back sets , 1-3 TE, play action passing, fullback and Hbacks used

Spread Option - Shotgun, normally 1 RB, no huddle, uptempo, short passes or screens to get ball out quickly, tons of 3-4-or-5 wide sets.

Pro Style - Multiple sets including single backs, I formation, shotgun, 50/50 balls for run to set up pass game, lots of motioning and lots of people getting the ball.

Confusion Cause
CGC kept saying we will run an NFL style offense. So, people thought Pro style was coming. What he meant was he will run an offense that allows players to develop and showcase themselves for the NFL draft. Meaning our offense will be schemed to showcase the necessary abilities and skills of the players to get the right attention.

Dave Patenaude's Offensive Scheme Is...
Spread Option
Pat has a scheme that is a spread Option offense based around the run. This does not mean we will always run, it means we will have to run effectively to set up the pass game he wants. By utilizing an effective run game, you create a numbers advantage where you can pass over the opponents head consistently. Not genius football. He does utilize RPO a lot as well, which requires the QB to make the right read AND the line to block for the run well. So we move on to the part that is hard to swallow for most Tech fans...

Why We Are Struggling
We have an inexperienced QB coupled with an OLine that is being transitioned to pass block AND the OLine is injured and has new and walk on players.

What does this mean?

Thanks for the explanation. Very good. It seems that we have completely diverged from one different/complicated O to another very different/complicated O (especially considering our QB and OL situation). Maybe a more interim, less diverse, O would give us a smoother transition with some success at being competitive in the short term while we build experience and add our chosen recruits. This being totally non competitive while we make this "big" transition is what is so frustrating.

Well the QB is suppose to make the RPO read, right? Well inexperience is leading to late decisions. See the QBs holding the ball too long sometimes before giving or pulling. Also, the RPO requires the QB and receivers be in sync. This is why the WR aren't even looking sometimes when we throw, they read the D different than the QB. Add to it that we are not blocking well for the run OR pass and we fall apart.

The remedy is better blocking on the line along with experience of the guys playing together and learning not only the playbook but what each other is going to see play in and play out. This is why we keep seeing the run game causing three n outs. PNodes offense requires the run to click to be effective, else, they pass rush constant and we fall flat because we can't keep em honest. Also, we can't keep tempo for the same reasons mentioned above and that is a huge part of what makes this work.

 

[Coloradojacket]

So there is a lot of talk on the board about not understanding what offensive scheme we are running. Some feel we look lost and there is no scheme. Here is some information to clear things up for us, maybe it will also allow many here to understand better where we are, where we are going, and why we are struggling.

Popular NCAA Offensive Schemes

Triple option - I don't really need to explain, right?!

Power Run - 2-3 back sets , 1-3 TE, play action passing, fullback and Hbacks used

Spread Option - Shotgun, normally 1 RB, no huddle, uptempo, short passes or screens to get ball out quickly, tons of 3-4-or-5 wide sets.

Pro Style - Multiple sets including single backs, I formation, shotgun, 50/50 balls for run to set up pass game, lots of motioning and lots of people getting the ball.

Confusion Cause
CGC kept saying we will run an NFL style offense. So, people thought Pro style was coming. What he meant was he will run an offense that allows players to develop and showcase themselves for the NFL draft. Meaning our offense will be schemed to showcase the necessary abilities and skills of the players to get the right attention.

Dave Patenaude's Offensive Scheme Is...
Spread Option
Pat has a scheme that is a spread Option offense based around the run. This does not mean we will always run, it means we will have to run effectively to set up the pass game he wants. By utilizing an effective run game, you create a numbers advantage where you can pass over the opponents head consistently. Not genius football. He does utilize RPO a lot as well, which requires the QB to make the right read AND the line to block for the run well. So we move on to the part that is hard to swallow for most Tech fans...

Why We Are Struggling
We have an inexperienced QB coupled with an OLine that is being transitioned to pass block AND the OLine is injured and has new and walk on players.

What does this mean?

Well the QB is suppose to make the RPO read, right? Well inexperience is leading to late decisions. See the QBs holding the ball too long sometimes before giving or pulling. Also, the RPO requires the QB and receivers be in sync. This is why the WR aren't even looking sometimes when we throw, they read the D different than the QB. Add to it that we are not blocking well for the run OR pass and we fall apart.

The remedy is better blocking on the line along with experience of the guys playing together and learning not only the playbook but what each other is going to see play in and play out. This is why we keep seeing the run game causing three n outs. PNodes offense requires the run to click to be effective, else, they pass rush constant and we fall flat because we can't keep em honest. Also, we can't keep tempo for the same reasons mentioned above and that is a huge part of what makes this work.

It is curious you say the run game isn't working and I agree to a point. Handing it off up the middle or 9 yards deep when you need less than a yard is not working. But when we run to the outside and ruin the speed option it is quite effective. And why don't we try some jet type of plays like Duke did to us out of CPJs offense. What I see killing us is not utilizing what is working and throwing too much. Yesterday we ran the ball 40 times and threw it 35. I think it should be 50 25. Duke ran the ball 55 and threw it 20.

 

[bobongo]

It is curious you say the run game isn't working and I agree to a point. Handing it off up the middle or 9 yards deep when you need less than a yard is not working. But when we run to the outside and ruin the speed option it is quite effective. And why don't we try some jet type of plays like Duke did to us out of CPJs offense. What I see killing us is not utilizing what is working and throwing too much. Yesterday we ran the ball 40 times and threw it 35. I think it should be 50 25. Duke ran the ball 55 and threw it 20.

After the game was broken open we passed more and they ran more, understandably.

 

[Ash]

It is curious you say the run game isn't working and I agree to a point. Handing it off up the middle or 9 yards deep when you need less than a yard is not working. But when we run to the outside and ruin the speed option it is quite effective. And why don't we try some jet type of plays like Duke did to us out of CPJs offense. What I see killing us is not utilizing what is working and throwing too much. Yesterday we ran the ball 40 times and threw it 35. I think it should be 50 25. Duke ran the ball 55 and threw it 20.

Why don't we do the things that seem to work? I am coming around to the conclusion that the coaching staff is treating this season like an extended Spring Game. We are "working on things" that we need to get good at long term rather than doing things to have success in the short term.

 

[bobongo]

Why don't we do the things that seem to work? I am coming around to the conclusion that the coaching staff is treating this season like an extended Spring Game. We are "working on things" that we need to get good at long term rather than doing things to have success in the short term.

I see this vague stuff over and over without specifics. If you keep doing "what works" too often it will stop working because they will start looking for it. You can't just keep doing it over and over. You have to mix it up.
This will be the third time today I've asked for specifics in the regard. No answers so far...

 

[iopjacket]

So there is a lot of talk on the board about not understanding what offensive scheme we are running. Some feel we look lost and there is no scheme. Here is some information to clear things up for us, maybe it will also allow many here to understand better where we are, where we are going, and why we are struggling.

Popular NCAA Offensive Schemes

Triple option - I don't really need to explain, right?!

Power Run - 2-3 back sets , 1-3 TE, play action passing, fullback and Hbacks used

Spread Option - Shotgun, normally 1 RB, no huddle, uptempo, short passes or screens to get ball out quickly, tons of 3-4-or-5 wide sets.

Pro Style - Multiple sets including single backs, I formation, shotgun, 50/50 balls for run to set up pass game, lots of motioning and lots of people getting the ball.

Confusion Cause
CGC kept saying we will run an NFL style offense. So, people thought Pro style was coming. What he meant was he will run an offense that allows players to develop and showcase themselves for the NFL draft. Meaning our offense will be schemed to showcase the necessary abilities and skills of the players to get the right attention.

Dave Patenaude's Offensive Scheme Is...
Spread Option
Pat has a scheme that is a spread Option offense based around the run. This does not mean we will always run, it means we will have to run effectively to set up the pass game he wants. By utilizing an effective run game, you create a numbers advantage where you can pass over the opponents head consistently. Not genius football. He does utilize RPO a lot as well, which requires the QB to make the right read AND the line to block for the run well. So we move on to the part that is hard to swallow for most Tech fans...

Why We Are Struggling
We have an inexperienced QB coupled with an OLine that is being transitioned to pass block AND the OLine is injured and has new and walk on players.

What does this mean?

Well the QB is suppose to make the RPO read, right? Well inexperience is leading to late decisions. See the QBs holding the ball too long sometimes before giving or pulling. Also, the RPO requires the QB and receivers be in sync. This is why the WR aren't even looking sometimes when we throw, they read the D different than the QB. Add to it that we are not blocking well for the run OR pass and we fall apart.

The remedy is better blocking on the line along with experience of the guys playing together and learning not only the playbook but what each other is going to see play in and play out. This is why we keep seeing the run game causing three n outs. PNodes offense requires the run to click to be effective, else, they pass rush constant and we fall flat because we can't keep em honest. Also, we can't keep tempo for the same reasons mentioned above and that is a huge part of what makes this work.

Thanks for the post. It helps me understand several things. Your comments under Confusion Cause about CGC planning to showcase player talents for the NFL may improve recruiting but may hurt team play. Paul Hewitt used to make similar remarks and appeared at times to make it his primary coaching focus. I hope Coach Collins is smart enough to avoid similar traps.

 

[Coloradojacket]

I see this vague stuff over and over without specifics. If you keep doing "what works" too often it will stop working because they will start looking for it. You can't just keep doing it over and over. You have to mix it up.
This will be the third time today I've asked for specifics in the regard. No answers so far...

Because we don't seem to run any specific plays enough to determine success or failure. Although I would say trying to run between the tackles is not working. When we run outside the tackles and speed option we get some good results. As far as passing.....the dump off to the back has been pretty good when it is to Howard.

 

[tomknight]

Here's one that had me confused yesterday. We had been having success getting to the edge. On 4th (I think 2 to gain), we run up the middle from a shotgun.

That seems like it would've been an excellent place to run student body right, or the reverse to Oliver.

We need to be a little more creative and play to our strengths.

I see this vague stuff over and over without specifics. If you keep doing "what works" too often it will stop working because they will start looking for it. You can't just keep doing it over and over. You have to mix it up.
This will be the third time today I've asked for specifics in the regard. No answers so far...

 

[Ash]

I see this vague stuff over and over without specifics. If you keep doing "what works" too often it will stop working because they will start looking for it. You can't just keep doing it over and over. You have to mix it up.
This will be the third time today I've asked for specifics in the regard. No answers so far...

Running up the middle out of the shotgun in short yardage for one. We went for it on 4th down on our side of the field, not even getting close to the LOS. They knew what we were going to do and tee off on us.
Are you talking about adjustments? Coaching? Calling plays with down and distance in mind rather than running a script? That's what I see scant evidence of.

Listen to the OCs press conferences. You will hear about development...progress and learning...things that shore up the point that we are running plays more for the sake of practice rather than strategy. In week 6 mind you.

 

[slugboy]

Here's one that had me confused yesterday. We had been having success getting to the edge. On 4th (I think 2 to gain), we run up the middle from a shotgun.

That seems like it would've been an excellent place to run student body right, or the reverse to Oliver.

We need to be a little more creative and play to our strengths.

I think there would have been screaming, such as “why is he getting cute, just run up the middle!”, if he had run an end around or a reverse on 4th and 2.

I’m not fully satisfied with how our offense is going, but unless we’re scoring 45 a game, Patenaude is going to catch flak for his play calling no matter what he calls.

 

[tomknight]

...

I’m not fully satisfied with how our offense is going, but unless we’re scoring 45 a game, Patenaude is going to catch flak for his play calling no matter what he calls.

Indeed

 

[danny daniel]

I see this vague stuff over and over without specifics. If you keep doing "what works" too often it will stop working because they will start looking for it. You can't just keep doing it over and over. You have to mix it up.
This will be the third time today I've asked for specifics in the regard. No answers so far...

There are a couple of ways (certainly more) to approach play-calling.
(1) start with a few basic calls. When one works stay with it until the other team adjusts and stops it. Note the adjustment which exposes something somewhere else. Run to the somewhere else. Rinse and repeat. This takes a coach like CPJ who watches the game and understands what is actually happening in detail on the field. This approach puts you more in charge of what the defense has to do. It also leads to knowing the play call options for down three when you are calling down two.
(2) have a laminated play sheet with all sorts of combinations of formations and plays and mix it up. This requires the ability to read the laminated sheet and have a "feel" for the flow of the game. I am uncertain about adjustments and I am not getting the "feel". IMO this approach treats each play more as a stand alone event.
This is of course an over simplification but I think you can see what our play-calling looks like from the stands. One example: Our LT could not block his outside rusher one on one and as a result Graham got blind-sided more than once. We were very lucky not to get a turnover. I was looking for some adjustment (as I got the "feel") in our pre-snap formation to get some help when we dropped back to pass. Still waiting.

 

[herb]

I think there would have been screaming, such as “why is he getting cute, just run up the middle!”, if he had run an end around or a reverse on 4th and 2.

I’m not fully satisfied with how our offense is going, but unless we’re scoring 45 a game, Patenaude is going to catch flak for his play calling no matter what he calls.

Or screaming line up under center and run the ball on fourth and short. That would be me

 

[GTThor]

I see this vague stuff over and over without specifics. If you keep doing "what works" too often it will stop working because they will start looking for it. You can't just keep doing it over and over. You have to mix it up.
This will be the third time today I've asked for specifics in the regard. No answers so far...

You can do the same thing, but out of multiple formations. Not rocket science.

 

[TheFlyest]

I would like to see the plays that are working in game more. Like when a play has success he’ll shy away from going back to it instead of going back to it until the opposition stops the play.

Would like to see more zone runs from under center on short yardage.

 

[bobongo]

Because we don't seem to run any specific plays enough to determine success or failure. Although I would say trying to run between the tackles is not working. When we run outside the tackles and speed option we get some good results. As far as passing.....the dump off to the back has been pretty good when it is to Howard.

Thanks for your answer. Running outside has worked better, for sure. But you can't just keep doing it or it will stop working. I understand what you're saying, though, that we should do it more often.